Let's Talk About: Group Fly

[Herotu]

Let's Talk About: Group Fly

 

As we all know, Group Fly seems cool in theory and absolutely horrible in practice. This is because it doesn't work in a way which the players imagine it should. 

 

So how do we fix Group Fly? 

Below, I have put a few ideas just to get us started, but I don't expect them to work/be easy to implement or anything else, they are just here to kick off the imagination of people interested in the topic.

 

• Maybe the base ability should be changed from PBAoE to map-wide effect - this way people wouldn't fall to the ground randomly. Obviously this would have to have a consent option (which I think should be OFF by default), and a pop up box with a "never show me this crap again" tick box.
• Alternatively it could wear off slowly, lowering players to the ground softly when they lose it. This way players don't just drop their deaths when the person with the power leaves the map.
• Masterminds are heartbroken the most by the disappointment of Group Fly. Perhaps it could work only on their pets, and to hell with the other classes? Just delete it from their pools or add it to masterminds only .. er.. somehow.
• Does Group Fly work with Afterburner? If not why not? 

 

That'll do for now, let's see what you've got.

[DoctorDitko]

As the other guy who took Group Fly, I feel your pain and like your ideas.

The only way it ever worked for me was to cast it and then Follow a teammate. Let them lead. That way, I couldn't outrun them, and nobody fell out of the sky.

 

(Even if I had Rez...)

 

Fixing the speed so everyone moves at the same rate would go a long way to helping GF.

Also, remove the -Acc debuff. That causes a lot of whining that I could live without.

 

(Even if I had Leadership to counteract it...)

Edited October 15, 2019 by DoctorDitko

[Jeneki]

10 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

The only way it ever worked for me was to cast it and then Follow a teammate. Let them lead. That way, I couldn't outrun them, and nobody fell out of the sky.

Yes that's how I remember Masterminds keeping their pets inside Group Fly back in the day.  Follow one, then order all to move.

 

No one expects the Flying Zombie Apocalypse!  😄

[MetaVileTerror]

I always felt that Group Fly should limit the Max Fly Speed of the user, but increase the Max Fly Speed for everyone in the buff area.  Seems like the best fix without radically changing things.

[Haijinx]

Group Fly is ridiculous. 

 

 

[Call Me Awesome]

Change it to something useful like maybe flying fluffy bunnies.  As is it's one of, if not THE, worst powers in the game.

[Haijinx]

49 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Change it to something useful like maybe flying fluffy bunnies.  As is it's one of, if not THE, worst powers in the game.

Has to be in the bottom 3

[Redlynne]

5 hours ago, Herotu said:

Maybe the base ability should be changed from PBAoE to map-wide effect - this way people wouldn't fall to the ground randomly.

GRIEFERS AHOY!

Not recommended.

 

 

 

The real problem with Group Fly is that it doesn't allow formation flying by default.

 

The way that people want Group Fly to work is that everyone in the PBAoE needs to "move in sync" together ... at the same speed and in the same direction ... so you don't need to coordinate in order to "herd cats" and keep everyone together inside the limits of the PBAoE.

 

The basic concept/idea is that the caster "brings everyone along with them" in a PBAoE and that they'll keep their relative positions with each other (formation flying) while moving so that only one PC needs to have the power for a group.  The power would need to be configured to affect Team (and League) but not random people you fly by (because, griefing).

 

For movement control, the way that you rig it is that everyone in the PBAoE is subject to movement identical to the Group Fly caster ... but if individuals other than the caster use their own movement keybinds then their individual movement is "vector added" to the movement direction being granted to them by the Group Fly caster.  Basically if you're flying in formation and you want to "peel off" onto a different vector (or just drop out of the PBAoE) you can do so individually.  So if everyone besides the Group Fly caster remains "idle" for movement while inside the PBAoE then everyone "flies in formation" with the movement of the PBAoE caster, but as soon as anyone who is not the caster initiates a movement they will "break formation" and move relative to the caster's motion, which can take them out of the PBAoE if they move far enough away from the caster.

 

 

 

Now, rigging all of that at the programming level might be a challenge ... but that's the basic functionality that I think we all wanted (and expected!) out of Group Fly.  The reason why it doesn't work that way is because at the game mechanical level Group Fly is a PBAoE that can (and often is) subject to differentials in Flight enhancement values for different $Targets affected by the power, causing them to fly at different speeds (Swift is merely one of the causes for this).  When flight speeds are different, you can't maintain a flight formation and hold positions relative to each other while in motion.  You wind up being limited to needing to fly at the speed of the slowest flier (who is often NOT the caster!) and then put everyone on Follow for whoever is Not The Caster so as to not have PCs and NPCs affected by the power falling behind (and falling out of the sky).

 

The way the power was structured from game launch is just too ... clunky ... to function elegantly in the way that people WANT to use the power.  The practical upshot is that Group Fly winds up only being "useful" in a STATIC context, where you need to keep multiple people off the ground but stay in the same place for a while (Hamidon Green Mitos anyone?) but the power is next to useless for actually "towing" an entire team through the sky anywhere (like, say ... the Shadow Shard?).

[Clave Dark 5]

Seems to me the distance problem is one of the big troubles here.  Why not remove that?  When you're on a team and click the power (it's a toggle right?) then boom, everyone on your team can fly.  The end, period.  Give them that pop-up fourth tray like Mystic Flight does so they can click the power themselves and choose when to use it.  Hopefully the Group Fly person doesn't die when you're in the air though.  🙂

[Herotu]

8 hours ago, Redlynne said:

GRIEFERS AHOY! Not recommended.

In my defense, the sentence after your quote dealt with your concern. I thank you for your post, though, it's very interesting.

 

I'd also like to remind people that the ideas in the original post are just to get us thinking about ways to improve Group Fly.

 

3 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Give them that pop-up fourth tray like Mystic Flight does so they can click the power themselves and choose when to use it.  Hopefully the Group Fly person doesn't die when you're in the air though.  🙂

Eww, I hate that fourth tray - they even put it on the Force of Will power - I'm not a fan because it overlaps other UI elements that I place above my trays and I don't have keybinds for it. Having said that, I can live with the tray and I do like this idea.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Herotu

[Sakidave]

Seems to me that this power should work like teleport. You have to be in a certain radius when activated. You can opt out of the buff. From there, the buff grantor has no more influence or interaction. The buff lasts until the recipient deactivates it via a small icon that appears on the GUI. (Not in a tray). Cross multiple zones if you want. For ATs that have summoned pets, the pets gain flight and follow in formation until the power is deactivated. 

[Ael]

On each and every toon I roll, I take them to Null and make them immune to group fly. Can't stand it.

[Herotu]

27 minutes ago, Ael said:

On each and every toon I roll, I take them to Null and make them immune to group fly. Can't stand it.

All the more reason to change it! 😄

[Redlynne]

39 minutes ago, Sakidave said:

Seems to me that this power should work like teleport. You have to be in a certain radius when activated. You can opt out of the buff. From there, the buff grantor has no more influence or interaction. The buff lasts until the recipient deactivates it via a small icon that appears on the GUI. (Not in a tray). Cross multiple zones if you want. For ATs that have summoned pets, the pets gain flight and follow in formation until the power is deactivated. 

This is an interesting notion, although I disagree with some of the specifics.

 

I'd imagine that the way it would work is that instead of being a PBAoE of refreshing effect (so you have to stay in the PBAoE to keep receiving the Group Fly effect) ... instead, Group Fly would apply a Grant Toggle Power to everyone within the PBAoE and that Grant Power would be self sustaining until it is toggled off OR (and this is where I disagree with you @Sakidave) you change zones.  Basically at zone transitions the Grant Toggle Power would automatically disable before exiting the zone, so when you enter the new zone the Group Fly effect is not engaged.

 

Basically an "on until toggled off" type of solution, where you only need to be within range at the time of casting, but afterwards the "range" is effectively "within the current zone" for the recipients (including the caster).  Limit it to Teammates/Leaguemates only and you'll be most of the way there.

 

The really nice improvement of structuring it this way is that it doesn't require everyone to STAY inside of a bubble of PBAoE around the caster in order for the effect to be persistent, which also removes the necessity for all recipients to "fly in formation" in order to stay within that PBAoE.

 

Rig it so that each recipient needs to pay their own endurance for their own Grant Toggle Power and you can convert the Group Fly power that does all this in a PBAoE into a Click Power that invokes a toggle for everyone within the PBAoE ... so Click to Toggle, basically.  The functionality to do this is exemplified in Mystic Flight, where you have toggle Fly enables click Teleport functionality.  If you invert that for Group Fly, in which click Group Fly grants (toggled on when received) Fly to everyone in the PBAoE, and that granted Fly toggle persists until toggled off (or you change zones) ... would represent a rather ELEGANT solution to the limitations of how Group Fly is currently configured.

[Shred Monkey]

I think it should be a click power that gives flight for 60 seconds to everyone in a large AoE range and has a cool down of just a few seconds.   Any penalties should be removed.

 

You should also have an option to choose to not accept similar to the way you can choose not to receive speed boosts from Kin.  (I forget where I saw that.... the P2W vendor maybe?)

 

It would still be a pretty worthless power, but it would at least not be a terrible power. 

 

And mastermind pets should by default have maximum flight speed so they always keep up.

[You]

How about changing it to something like SB or IR (of kin)?

[SeraphimKensai]

Could always change it to Freem. Joke aside, it is useful in Hammi raids and Shard TFs if people are careful. The biggest issue I see with it is that the speed of those in the group is not the speed of the one with the power, if they could fix that alone it would make it a better situational power.

 

Otherwise, radical idea changing it to Grant Flight, targeted AoE 2 minutes of flight. So if someone has the buff it's like a temp jetpack on them for 2 minutes and the time is something for them to manage (either land or get a rebuff in time).

 

[Elfin]

I always hated group fly that is why I always try to remember to use Null The Gull to make myself immune to it.

[Tahliah]

On 10/18/2019 at 10:34 AM, Shred Monkey said:

And mastermind pets should by default have maximum flight speed so they always keep up.

/this

[Gravitus]

Perhaps the best way to fix this I think if possible, is to make this into a map wide power with a prompt asking if you want Group Fly to effect you (like TP) if you haven’t auto turned it off/on. 
 

This would make adjusting flight speeds not needed as well.

[Demon Shell]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:05 AM, You said:

How about changing it to something like SB or IR (of kin)?

I feel IR is the best option. Activate it, everyone around you can fly for 2 minutes. It not being a toggle also means you can have an opt in/out box pop up for people that don't want it.

 

Basically, Tinkerbell-fairy dust the team and go.

[Lines]

Could the power grant people near to you a flight temporary power, appearing in the temporary power popup tray like Mystic Flight's teleport effect? That way it's clear when it's been turned on by someone, less intrusive than a popup and the player has total control over when they want to fly and when they don't.

 

 

Edit: Just saw this was already suggested.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[boggo2300]

On 10/16/2019 at 10:20 PM, Ael said:

On each and every toon I roll, I take them to Null and make them immune to group fly. Can't stand it.

I don't because I've never seen it used

[Huron]

1) Move the Group Fly prompt to the options panel right below the Team Teleport prompt

2) Default it to OFF

3) We'll work on the rest.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I personally think the fix is simple and doesnt take a drastic rework. Have it remain the pbaoe toggle, but have the fly buff last say 2 minutes so when allies do get far away they have time to get back near the team mate giving the buff if they want it. I dont see this breaking the game or becoming some new meta. Just would be a QoL feature for those willing to take a power that mainly is for allies who lack fly and havent bothered to get a jet pack.