Get rid of ALL Agro caps

[SeraphimKensai]

Honestly though, if it could be done, and I think the code might prevent it or makes it really infeasible (I guess I can look at the binaries tonight if I get motivated), it would be cool to have a raised agro cap on tanks to help differentiate them between brutes.

[golstat2003]

7 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Honestly though, if it could be done, and I think the code might prevent it or makes it really infeasible (I guess I can look at the binaries tonight if I get motivated), it would be cool to have a raised agro cap on tanks to help differentiate them between brutes.

They already said more than once that the agrro cap isn't on the ATs, and thus tanks could not have a different aggro cap than everyone else, or did I misunderstand them the multiple times they said it?

[SeraphimKensai]

6 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

They already said more than once that the agrro cap isn't on the ATs, and thus tanks could not have a different aggro cap than everyone else, or did I misunderstand them the multiple times they said it?

Ah I must of missed it. Anyways saves me time digging through to see how it is coded myself.

[Blackfeather]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

They already said more than once that the agrro cap isn't on the ATs, and thus tanks could not have a different aggro cap than everyone else, or did I misunderstand them the multiple times they said it?

I think this quote from Number Six is relevant whenever the whole "aggro caps are AT locked" thing is brought up - it's not that it isn't possible, just a matter of whether or not it's a good thing to have.

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

I think this quote from Number Six is relevant whenever the whole "aggro caps are AT locked" thing is brought up - it's not that it isn't possible, just a matter of whether or not it's a good thing to have.

And here's another relevant post (referenced by @Leogunner earlier) from the same thread:

 

So despite the number of requests we've seen - and will continue to see - for it, you'll need some overwhelming reason to get it through, because the answer so far is simply "nope."

[SwitchFade]

5 hours ago, Klaleara said:

Thats funny, cause I remember Fire Controllers being the gods of farming when they implemented the leashed enemies.

 

Also I wouldn't say across all servers, cause definitely not mine.

Issue 4 disagrees with you.

 

And, fire tanks. And dumpsters.

 

And Dreck, he definitely disagrees with you, so much so that he was put on a timer.

 

Oh also, outdoor maps and fire tanks together had a baby named...

 

/Jranger

 

😜

[TheSpiritFox]

No aggro caps would kill fire farming. No build in the game can handle a fire farm on them all at once. 

[kelika2]

I did not even read the post, only the headline.  And I have to say:

 

Fuck.  That.  Shit.

 

Tanks back then being cunts and herding entire maps for 10-15 minutes IS NOT FUN and as it is, I see my fair share of Brutes/Tanks trying to herd in various situations.  The 16 target limit is fun, includes the rest of the group and is not a stall for the rest of the team.  You, as the tank, might think not having an agro limit is fun but fuck that shit as a whole.  Going group-to-group is the way city of heroes needs to be.

[Fortuneteller]

13 hours ago, Klaleara said:

As a squishy, I hate the aggro caps.  Even in normal content, I find myself fleeing across the map, trying not to die, because the tank literally can't even taunt them off me.

 

Aggro cap is one of the few things I currently VERY much dislike in CoX.

This reply isn't on topic but i'd like to reply to this comment anyways.

Squishy protip, don't run away from from the tank, fleeing across the map and expect them to get the aggro off of things chasing you. Run TOO the tank.

[Outrider_01]

1. Stop running content as an Incarnate of power, anyone should of realized how content trivial it became.

 

2. Higher aggro cap, faster killing.  Humm, like a solo Incarnate with a group instead?  WTF PWNBBQ with a few nukes, control powers and support powers are redundant with Awesome Sauce IO Bonuse.

 

3. Current Armor and Defense numbers? Gonna have to reduce them, significantly that the term soft cap is a joke.

 

4. Attack target caps, got to further reduce that number but keep cone to 1 but wide and radius as is.  Stupid numbers of close quarter NPC requires something.

 

Did I miss anything?

[DSorrow]

I'm going to go with a slightly hesitant no on this. Completely removing aggro caps would encourage herding whole maps together which I think is a pretty boring strategy. Yes, sure, we wouldn't have to do it, but in any team of 8 there's going to be someone who expects it as a norm and then you have salt going one way or the other. I could probably be on board with increasing the aggro cap moderately (let's say, up to 20-25), but currently aggro cap overflow is one of the few things that can turn a situation dangerous for end game teams. 

 

Unless we get enemies that summon 100% taunt resistant pets or something that actually requires strats other than tank jumps in -> nuke, I think increasing aggro caps wouldn't be a net benefit.

[Troo]

/jr⁴

[Klaleara]

6 hours ago, Fortuneteller said:

This reply isn't on topic but i'd like to reply to this comment anyways.

Squishy protip, don't run away from from the tank, fleeing across the map and expect them to get the aggro off of things chasing you. Run TOO the tank.

And an on-topic reply, that is useless, when the tank literally can't take aggro off of you...

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Klaleara said:

And an on-topic reply, that is useless, when the tank literally can't take aggro off of you...

The good news isn't really the tank, so much as the defenders and controllers who are likely hanging around nearby.  With luck you can scrape some aggro off onto them as you zoom past.

[SwitchFade]

The solution to this is quite easy,

 

Don't auto-gank yourself by insisting on +4 as default 😋

 

There, aggro cap argument solved for the OP.

[SeraphimKensai]

16 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

No aggro caps would kill fire farming. No build in the game can handle a fire farm on them all at once. 

That is incorrect. I used to herd 400 warwolves or freaks into a dumpster and kill them all at once while using just SO's by myself. With IO Set Bonuses/Incarnate abilities, it will turn meteor map clear times from 4 minutes to 30 seconds (including zoning time).

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

That is incorrect. I used to herd 400 warwolves or freaks into a dumpster and kill them all at once while using just SO's by myself. With IO Set Bonuses/Incarnate abilities, it will turn meteor map clear times from 4 minutes to 30 seconds (including zoning time).

The target cap would prevent it from going that fast, and while I wasn't playing then (started in i7), I'm still pretty sure that any claims of herding an entire map happened before ED (i6).

 

I agree that there likely wouldn't be much danger with a specific farming build on the fire farms if the aggro cap were removed, though.

[SeraphimKensai]

24 minutes ago, siolfir said:

The target cap would prevent it from going that fast, and while I wasn't playing then (started in i7), I'm still pretty sure that any claims of herding an entire map happened before ED (i6).

Ah target cap, you are right it would still take time to Target everything, but the time to clear a map would still be reduced as everything would be on you.

 

And yes prior to ED sounds about right. They started adding timers to our missions to thwart us as well.

Edited February 5, 2020 by SeraphimKensai

[Outrider_01]

11 hours ago, siolfir said:

The target cap would prevent it from going that fast, and while I wasn't playing then (started in i7), I'm still pretty sure that any claims of herding an entire map happened before ED (i6).

I6 is correct. But you don't understand how easy herding made it when you didn't have to kill things when it could all be brought to you and nuke with unlimited target caps making it even easier.  Current fire farms I have seen have static spawns or patrols = easy kill with small groups spaced apart.

 

Gonna plug a fire farm of a psycho number cruncher who can make builds like no other.

 

Look up Twisted Visage, search Visage to  reduce the hits it produces, first one. I don't know if its server specific but this is on Indomitable.

 

1. Single click on an object in the asteroid map starts a trigger
2. You will see swarms of highly aggressive aggro NPC around boxes
3. One group is gold color with flames, one is kneeling. Most will fly off. These are ally tagged.
4. Jump into that group.
5. You will now be the center of attention.
6. The gold group is untouchable to the baddies, you will mostly be ignored.
7. While standing next to the kneeling one, start killing.
8. As things die, the other golds will fly off and pull more.
9. If they stop short, throw am AoE. I just saw this the other day, shows on the text when you enter. Causes golds to gather more and fly back as the ones on them turn on you. Funky mechanic.
10. NOW THE BADDIES ARE COMMING TO YOU.
11. Sure there is the herd caps.
12. Funny though, there is NO CAP on baddies fighting baddies so they herd up, some fighting other golds.
13. As you kill WITH LIMITED TARGET CAPS they are herding and dying to the target caps.
14. EZPZ, nothing really hits you.

 

Pretty much herding, which is why there was target caps and aggro caps.

 

I believe he mentioned a 3:30 clear time with most comming to him. Briggs has the patrol maps but I am not sure if kill time/wandering speed requiring you to go to the patrols is the same as a blob that comes to you and don't wander off.

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Greycat]

A lack of aggro cap nearly made me leave the game out of boredom back in the day. Almost every mission was "Wait for tank to herd map, possibly with emp in tow. Wait for him to bring back to THIS SPOT and DO NOT MOVE. When the tank says so, one blaster can nuke. Next floor."

 

It was *dull.* Sure, you got to stand there and talk - but that was about it.

 

No thanks.

[Solarverse]

On 2/4/2020 at 12:47 PM, Apparition said:

IIRC, one of the developers posted a few months ago that the aggro cap is pretty much now hard coded into the game and removing it would break much of the game, if it's even possible at all.

Not sure why, there is another server who removed the aggro cap and nothing ended up broke. Everything was perfectly okay 

[Blackfeather]

9 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Not sure why, there is another server who removed the aggro cap and nothing ended up broke. Everything was perfectly okay 

I'm going to point to my post up above for this.

 

Less a matter of ease of implementation, more a discussion of "what benefits/drawbacks would this cause".

[CU_Krow]

Read the OP and entire first page. I did not read any posts that posed a good argument for nor against this topic, or how it could possibly  enhance or hinder the game in generally.

 

For that reason alone, I vote no. Unless better reasons/argument is proposed.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, CU_Krow said:

Read the OP and entire first page. I did not read any posts that posed a good argument for nor against this topic, or how it could possibly  enhance or hinder the game in generally.

 

For that reason alone, I vote no. Unless better reasons/argument is proposed.

Because, reasons. Will you vote yes now?  😄

[Solarverse]

5 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

I'm going to point to my post up above for this.

 

Less a matter of ease of implementation, more a discussion of "what benefits/drawbacks would this cause".

I never wanted a 'no aggro cap,' personally. I did however in previous posts (not in this thread, but many others) stated that I wish the aggro cap was raised to triple of what it is currently. I feel I have given very good reasons for this that fit not only mechanically, but also fit realism. But this is a topic I honestly gave up on, it's just something that people will never agree on. Personally, I think what the original Devs did with the aggro cap was way overkill. It's like they did it as a statement and had a point to prove. The aggro cap as it stands now IMO is just silly and makes the game very unrealistic even in an unrealistic game. IE; you have NPC's that just stand there oblivious to your existence, even though you are a few short feet away laying waste to their buddies. Suddenly, after laying waste to some of them, all of a sudden they realize you are there and attack you. They literally wait their turn like some cheap B-Rated movie. That honestly irks me.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Solarverse