Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Vyx]

I've never turned off earning vet levels because the tiny increase was never worth it or that needed, and I don't even farm. I only feel bad for those who missed out on all them vet levels 😉

[Saikochoro]

2 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

If people who farm are the only ones who get tilted off of this, it's also telling.

This affects farmers the most of all, and that's a good thing.

Farmers aren’t bad though. Farmers help by such supplying the market. Many farmers also invite others to join their farms for free. Still others help by giving people start up funds for builds. 
 

I personally don’t think I’ll really be affected by the change, but I do think farmers are good. 

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, Peerless Girl said:

As Number Six said above, while the option existed (and turning off XP didn't exist in CoH either until SS went in which Jimmy mentioned--we had to drown ourselves in PILES of XP debt to not outlevel arcs back then...I was one who did, and it was even worse before the debt cap). The knew what they did, yes, but as Six said before, it didn't become as much of an issue UNTIL XP didn't stop at 50, when the vet levels were added, then that exacerbated the INF gain (since you're now still gaining "XP" when level 50s didn't used to) and inflated the market. Least that's my understanding. @Number Six?

Oh, I've got no problem with them fixing a bug.  My issue is taking out the mechanic wholesale--like I said, they call it abusing the system, I call it, well... just 'using' the system?  I mean, it's what it was there for, isn't it?

[Foxfyre]

1 minute ago, Zeraphia said:

I do take issue with your post, although I have seen you in game, hi foxy! 🙂

 

People farming does very much so affect the game and the economy and very well does affect the majority of the player populace and their opinions are still valuable and contribute heavily to the state of the game. I don't disagree with the sentiment to let others play the game they want to play it, however, the choices on what people do as a market do very well influence what I can or cannot outfit my characters with and how much of the content on this game I love I am able to fully enjoy!

 

Cheers and thank you for all your hardwork on the Hami Raids!!!! =D

Hi and thanks!

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see.  My prediction is that with a reduction in the flow of influence, we'll see market prices increase to make up for that reduction.

[Peerless Girl]

Just now, Saikochoro said:

Farmers aren’t bad though. Farmers help by such supplying the market. Many farmers also invite others to join their farms for free. Still others help by giving people start up funds for builds. 
 

I personally don’t think I’ll really be affected by the change, but I do think farmers are good. 

A good game dev (like many people ) would tell you "all things in moderation" i.e. all things can be good and bad, and no one way of enjoyment should be overly more (or less) "profitable" to those who do it than another, as I believe Jimmy said HC's goal is (a laudable goal which I support, as an aside). I'm certain that was always Paragon and Cryptic's intent as well, it just doesn't always work out as intended sometimes. 

[Bopper]

So for my own education on this. The feature to disable XP for double influence never existed on Live, so this would be a post live addition being removed. Perhaps even an HC only addition being removed by HC. So it's possible folks running to other servers wont find what they're looking for?

 

Also, the exploitable part sounds like Patrol XP gave double XP, but since XP was turned off, it became double Influence. So essentially turning off XP would triple your influence?

[Peerless Girl]

Just now, Foxfyre said:

Hi and thanks!

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see.  My prediction is that with a reduction in the flow of influence, we'll see market prices increase to make up for that reduction.

Then the devs will take action to balance that if needed. It's also possible they are working on another way to fix the issue and might then restore the fixed feature, this might be a temporary measure until that's done, only they know. 

[Jimmy]

Just now, Saikochoro said:

Farmers help by such supplying the market.

Correct. Farmers supplying the market with goods is positive for the economy. Usage of converters to increase the availability of high-value goods is also positive for the economy.

 

On the flipside: Anything producing too much raw influence is not good for the economy.

[Targren]

Just now, Bopper said:

Also, the exploitable part sounds like Patrol XP gave double XP, but since XP was turned off, it became double Influence. So essentially turning off XP would triple your influence?

And the patrol XP apparently never depleted.

[Peerless Girl]

4 minutes ago, Bopper said:

So for my own education on this. The feature to disable XP for double influence never existed on Live, so this would be a post live addition being removed. Perhaps even an HC only addition being removed by HC. So it's possible folks running to other servers wont find what they're looking for?

 

Also, the exploitable part sounds like Patrol XP gave double XP, but since XP was turned off, it became double Influence. So essentially turning off XP would triple your influence?

Sort of. The double Influence thing DID exist on live as you were leveling up IF you had no debt to pay off. Essentially any XP you would've earned to pay off "Debt" when Ex'd became inf instead. The issue is, once Vet levels became a thing, it got worse, because XP existed past 50 (not for a LOT of purpose, but it exists now). You couldn't double inf at 50 on live because you could never be ABOVE 50. You got it being ex'd down below 50 to lower level players and not having an XP debt to pay off, you couldn't get it AT 50. How other servers handle stuff would depend on them.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Peerless Girl
Edited to clarify how EX'ing down and Inf gain worked for a 50 going below 50 on Live.

[Noyjitat]

Just now, Targren said:

And the patrol XP apparently never depleted.

This never happened to me so there must be more to this exploit. And elite gave 230k inf with or without patrol xp.

[Arkterusss]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

I believe that it was hurting everyone, by devaluing Inf across the board.  Standard economics: there is too much currency, which makes it less valuable for everyone, and jacking up inflation.  That's why we need Inf sinks in the game, to reduce the supply of currency, increase its value, and control inflation.

We need some Thread sinks, too.  After getting all your incarnates it feels weird to see a stack of 1,000 threads sitting around not doing much. 🤙

[Jimmy]

Something else to keep in mind....

 

I think very few people here would argue that the economy on live was good or healthy. Our changes (both past and present) are to ensure the Homecoming economy does not end up like that.

 

In other words: "It was like that on live" is not a good argument when it comes to anything related to the economy.

[Targren]

Just now, Noyjitat said:

This never happened to me so there must be more to this exploit. And elite gave 230k inf with or without patrol xp.

Don't think I ever saw it myself, either, but I figure it's safe to take Jimmy at his word. 😄 

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Arkterusss said:

We need some Thread sinks, too.  After getting all your incarnates it feels weird to see a stack of 1,000 threads sitting around not doing much. 🤙

You can always make and try out different combinations of Incarnates.  They're like permanent Enhancements that you can swap in and out as desired/needed.  Personally, I like trying out different Lore pets.

 

[Indystruck]

Just now, Jimmy said:

Something else to keep in mind....

 

I think very few people here would argue that the economy on live was good or healthy. Our changes (both past and present) are to ensure the Homecoming economy does not end up like that.

 

In other words: "It was like that on live" is not a good argument when it comes to anything related to the economy.

 

yeah, I spiked LotG 7.5% prices at one point by buying all of them and relisting them at 3x the price and they uhhh never went back down over several years, so, y'all probably don't want that happening again

[Jimmy]

1 minute ago, Arkterusss said:

We need some Thread sinks, too.  After getting all your incarnates it feels weird to see a stack of 1,000 threads sitting around not doing much. 🤙

Indeed. Cleaning up Incarnate components and giving you something else to do with them is on our radar.

[mrultimate]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

This isn't the case. We want to encourage all playstyles, rather than farming being a necessity. We covered this in our open letter all the way back in May of last year.

 

In brief: Our goal is for all playstyles be valid, worthwhile and enjoyable. That's what we're working towards.

You can't polish a turd and call it  a diamond Jimmy. You could have addressed the exploit alone. Instead you went for the Nuclear option.

[Indystruck]

Just now, mrultimate said:

You can't polish a turd and call it  a diamond Jimmy. You could have addressed the exploit alone. Instead you went for the Nuclear option.

  

2 hours ago, mrultimate said:

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

 

My man. Please relax.

[Zeraphia]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Indeed. Cleaning up Incarnate components and giving you something else to do with them is on our radar.

The only issue I really have with this related to level 50 and above with "incarnates" is that in the current state, Vet 99+'s really gain nothing anymore. They've legitimately outleveled every benefit to leveling and now instead of having the benefit to disable XP and gain influence, they now have nothing. Emp merits every 3 levels or so would help to at least feel like you're gaining "something."

[Jimmy]

Just now, Zeraphia said:

The only issue I really have with this related to level 50 and above with "incarnates" is that in the current state, Vet 99+'s really gain nothing anymore. They've legitimately outleveled every benefit to leveling and now instead of having the benefit to disable XP and gain influence, they now have nothing. Emp merits every 3 levels or so would help to at least feel like you're gaining "something."

Agreed. This will also likely be part of us looking at Incarnate components and crafting.

[Deacon Stone]

If the farmers are doing anything, they are supplying the market with Influence distribution.  Since I've returned to playing, I've made not even a single character 50.  It's not all the interesting to me to be 50 to be honest.  One of my toons is a level 5 Emp locked with xp turned off.

I've had no problems making money.
In general I make 7 influence per minion
I have made about 250k from teaming.
I have made millions working the market though.
I've been crafting for the badges, I'm working on level 45-50 IO's and I'm level 5!

So, with that in mind I'd simply ask the question, What is balance?
Certainly my level 5 does exceedingly well alongside players of all levels with my stacks of temp powers and slotted with SO's that give me fair percentage and decent returns on a character that is only a month or two old and not consistently played.

Thus, the minor change to influence when xp is turned off is nominal in my opinion.  I don't think the change will impact the economy all the much to be honest.

[Bound]

Hear me out...

 

I believe the best way to truly air your grievances with each other, and the dev team, would be to create story arcs in AE! Then submit them to @Scrapbot using the in-game mail system for your chance to win some of that Information/Influence/Infamy that has been so hotly contested on here. 

 

For relevance sake:

I like the end mod enhancements meant for combat - I got an El/El Brute who can pro'ly make use of it.

I like the ability to apply gloves and boots asymmetrically, my poor Scrapbots have been too uniform for too long!

I dislike stuff too... like the fact we're in a pandemic.

[Number Six]

14 minutes ago, Bopper said:

So for my own education on this. The feature to disable XP for double influence never existed on Live, so this would be a post live addition being removed. Perhaps even an HC only addition being removed by HC. So it's possible folks running to other servers wont find what they're looking for?

 

Also, the exploitable part sounds like Patrol XP gave double XP, but since XP was turned off, it became double Influence. So essentially turning off XP would triple your influence?

No, the option existed, but the dynamics of using it were completely different. You couldn't earn XP beyond 50, and therefore couldn't create the weird interaction between converting XP to Influence, vet levels, and patrol XP.

[Coyotedancer]

While I'm personally all for removing the lvl49/patrol XP exploit, I also have to admit that I would be a lot less annoyed by the additional No-XP-for-Extra-INF change if the HC devs hadn't *ALREADY* halved INF and XP rewards for all AE content last year. 

 

The combination of the two is starting to get into "Maybe you've nerfed this a little too much, guys"-territory. And I'm saying that as a relatively casual farmer who basically just does it for fun, to help alt-a-holic roleplayer friends level or to equip the relatively small number of characters in my own crew.

 

If I wanted to make a fortune? Beating up hordes of angry cosplayers isn't the way I'd do it. Marketeering is, in all honesty, an order of magnitude more effective for that. Farming is just more fun in my opinion.

 

That aside? Nice job, guys. The new costume toys are ace.