[Beta] Patch Notes for April 5th, 2020

[SwitchFade]

6 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Yin's Market was, back in the OG days, the reason why people ran the Faultline arcs as early as they reasonably could.  When it could take weeks of casual play to get from 15-22, early access to even a limited range of SO's was a gift from $DIETY.

That and the fun easy AV's and good exp.

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, Caulderone said:

I'm talking about holding right mouse button down to control turning, not run/autorun.  Having to hold any key down to do it is a pain.

Funny, that's one of the aspects I find best, the right hold.

[0th Power]

1 hour ago, csr said:

I wanted the actual names to look one up in the base editor so I could test all of those that are supposed to sell TOs.

Oh. Not sure then, sorry. 

[r0y]

10 hours ago, Faultline said:

...snip...

• Added several convenience aliases for usage with keybinding

...snip...

Would it be possible to expand the "convenience aliases" to include new $variables?  I brought this up here:

Sure would be handy to have $team, $slot, etc.

[GlaziusF]

I don't currently overstack keybinds of the Ctrl+Alt+X variety. 

 

I'm not entirely sure about how the controller vs. extra modifiers are used. With the recommended setup I can bind joy7+joy1 or lbumper+joy1, but not ltrigger+joy1. (It may be because I was a bit silly and started out by extramodifying l/r bumpers and l/r triggers and then controllermodding l/r triggers.)

 

But both of those listed button combinations do work, which is very nice. I can even bind joy7+joystick2_up to jump, so that ltrigger effectively toggles between look up/down and fly up/down.

[Telephone]

You're absolutely correct that this is a bit confusing and needs a little more explanation.

 

On the live shards, there are three pre-defined 'modifiers' (Shift, Ctrl, and Alt). These can be used in any keybind, etc.

 

The patch allows you to define up to six additional modifiers: two 'Controller Modifiers' and up to four 'Extra Modifiers'. The 'Controller Modifiers' are special, as pressing them together enables Virtual Mouse Mode. They do work as bindable modifiers just like the pre-existing three.

 

The up-to-four 'Extra Modifiers' are just additional inputs (either keys or buttons) that can be treated as modifiers when no other modifier is pressed. So for example, you could do /extra_modifiers LBumper RBumper to make the bumpers modifiers on your XInput gamepad. You could then use (for example) LBumper+Joy1 as a /bind (but also still be able to use LTrigger+LBumper as a separate bind).

 

The 'Extra Modifiers' aren't limited to just gamepad buttons, however! If you want, you can bind any key on your keyboard as one (but note that due to some things that still need refactoring, you can't bind a specific Shift, Ctrl, or Alt key on your keyboard yet).

 

You also point out that you both controller- and extra-modifiered the triggers. That could definitely cause issues and we'll fix that. We also don't (currently) have  way for you to clear _all_ your extra modifiers, so we'll have to fix that as well (you can just specify a single one with /extra_modifiers and it should clear the other three).

 

Not noted in the patch notes is that we added a number of other convenience aliases which you may have already noticed (e.g. LTrigger, LeftTrigger, RightBumper, StartButton, AButton, and so on).

 

Thanks for the feedback! Please let us know if you have other questions as well.

[csr]

I did a bit more testing on cost to upgrade SOs with the new system.

 

My first test was to take a level 25 BS/SD Brute and give her a second build using level 25 SOs then check the cost to upgrade those to 28s.  It cost 1.21 million INF to upgrade 41 IOs.

 

My 2nd test was to take a level 22 version of the same toon, buy her L25 SOs, then add powers/slots/SOs before upgrading everything each level to 25.  At level 23 I spent 1.06M to upgrade 38 IOs to L26s.  At level 24 upgrading 39 SOs cost 1.12M.  The 41 SOs at 25 cost the same 1.21M to upgrade from 39 27s and 2 25s to 28s as it did to upgrade all 41 from 25s to 28s.  So the overall cost was 3.39M vs 1.21M.

 

I think it would be more appropriate for the upgrade cost to vary by the number of levels upgraded.  It seems odd to me that upgrading from a level 25 to 28 costs the same as upgrading from 27 to 28.  The cost of the +3 added seems about right, with the +1/+2 upgrades quite a bit steeper than I think they should be.  Ideally, it shouldn't cost nearly three times as much to go 25-26-27-28 as it does to go 25-28.  If +1 were roughly half the cost of +3 and +2 around 75% I think it would be more reasonable.  +4 or more added levels would naturally cost more.

 

Whatever the actual cost is though, I don't like that it's the same regardless of the number of levels added.

Edited April 7, 2020 by csr

[Rikis]

On 4/5/2020 at 4:23 PM, Apparition said:

Will red side get an equivalent to Yin's Talisman enhancements, or will they remain locked to blue side?

 

On 4/5/2020 at 7:09 PM, Razor Cure said:

Also..is there gonna be a Redside version of this store too?

This.

 

On 4/5/2020 at 7:32 PM, Apparition said:

Maybe Lorenz Ansaldo opens up a store in Sharkhead Isle that sells goods smuggled in from Paragon City, including Yin's Talisman enhancements.  That seems like something The Family would do, especially since the later story arcs blue side seem to have them try to be at least somewhat "reputable."  To open it up, you'd have to run Lorenz Ansaldo's mission arc.

Love it.

[Troo]

eesh.. this is kinda the opposite of how I hoped this would go.

 

Just get rid of the dual origins already if its gonna be so dumbed down.

 

Honestly this level of effort could be spent simplifying/explaining the incarnate system and would have a bigger benefit for the average player. That is where new chapters are likely to focus, isn't it?

[Doc_Scorpion]

55 minutes ago, Troo said:

Just get rid of the dual origins already if its gonna be so dumbed down.

I'm in firm agreement with this.  Get rid of TOs.  Get rid of DOs.  Get rid of SOs.

Replace them with a consolidated all levels system of AOs (All Origins).  Use the IO model where the fixed level of benefit scales with the level of the enhancement, but they never actually "go bad" and cease to provide any benefit at all.  Or use the current (T/D/SO) model, but instead of going bad and providing no benefit after a point - they always provide a minimum benefit equivalent to the current -3 benefit.

The origin enhancement system is an irrelevant remnant of a game system that was never implemented and likely is never going to be.  Keep it for flavor and to choose the "temporary" power, but sweep the rest of it into the dustbin of history.

[Wavicle]

22 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

The origin enhancement system is an irrelevant remnant of a game system that was never implemented and likely is never going to be. 

Oh? Please explain.

[Doc_Scorpion]

Just now, Wavicle said:

Oh? Please explain.

Some of the things the OG devs said lead me to believe that origins were originally intended to have meaning and gameplay effects beyond contact chains...  But that kept getting put on the back burner.  Now?  OK, it's not actually impossible the HC devs might resuscitate that effort, so I might be wrong there.

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Replace them with a consolidated all levels system of AOs (All Origins).  Use the IO model where the fixed level of benefit scales with the level of the enhancement, but they never actually "go bad" and cease to provide any benefit at all.  Or use the current (T/D/SO) model, but instead of going bad and providing no benefit after a point - they always provide a minimum benefit equivalent to the current -3 benefit.

I'm resigned to the fact that origins will never matter.  Given that, I'd agree that having enhancement origins seems like a relic of a dream never realized.  As long as IO's are in the game, I would want AO's to have a fixed value like SO's today, but the origins should stop mattering at this point, regardless of viewpoint.

[General Idiot]

6 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Some of the things the OG devs said lead me to believe that origins were originally intended to have meaning and gameplay effects beyond contact chains...  But that kept getting put on the back burner.  Now?  OK, it's not actually impossible the HC devs might resuscitate that effort, so I might be wrong there.

In the very original prelaunch alpha version of CoH, origins did matter. They determined how many powers you got and how many enhancement slots you could put into them, rather than everyone getting the same. There's a video on youtube somewhere of a demonstration they gave at some convention or other where they talk about it - my search-fu isn't strong enough to find that on demand but I distinctly remember them saying mutant characters had less variety of powers but the ones they did have were stronger, for example. But the devs deemed this not terribly fun and also even more of a nightmare to balance than this game already is, so it was changed to the current system of everyone getting equal numbers of things and origins being mostly just flavor text, before the game even made it to beta.

 

It wasn't an unimplemented system. They got far enough into it to realise they didn't like it.

[Jacke]

On 4/7/2020 at 11:39 PM, General Idiot said:

In the very original prelaunch alpha version of CoH, origins did matter. They determined how many powers you got and how many enhancement slots you could put into them, rather than everyone getting the same. There's a video on youtube somewhere of a demonstration they gave at some convention or other where they talk about it - my search-fu isn't strong enough to find that on demand but I distinctly remember them saying mutant characters had less variety of powers but the ones they did have were stronger, for example. But the devs deemed this not terribly fun and also even more of a nightmare to balance than this game already is, so it was changed to the current system of everyone getting equal numbers of things and origins being mostly just flavor text, before the game even made it to beta.

 

It wasn't an unimplemented system. They got far enough into it to realise they didn't like it.

 

I think this might be the video from 2003.  He only mentions in passing the Origin effects in the game at that time.

Spoiler

 

 

After launch, Origin used to determine the Origin Power a character would have.

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Origin_Powers

 

But now the P2W vendors allow any character to have any one of the Origin Powers.

 

Currently, Origin only made a difference for DOs, SOs, and especially Yin Market SOs.  And this change will make Yin Market enhancements more economical SOs.

 

There's also now the Origin Power Pools, of which we have 3 so far (Sorcery (Magic), Force of Will (Natural), and Experimentation (Science)) and which a character can only have 1 in their build.  But that's decoupled from Origin choice at character creation.  Which is good, as my Natural Origin AR-Dev Blaster has Sorcery powers. 🙂

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jacke

[Replacement]

Feedback: DOs and SOs are now both online at the same level (5), and that makes it very hard to notice that SOs are a thing that exists, since they're below DOs.  If these are organized by some sort of hidden ID, can this ID be lowered so SOs float to the top of merchant lists?  It may honestly be better to limit SOs to level 10 and up (player level 7) entirely to introduce to players that "something has changed" to cue investigation from a novice player.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Replacement

[Clave Dark 5]

I thought the character's origin also dictates which starting story arcs you get, who you get sent to first?  Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of thing pop up all the way through to 50; especially after what 40 or so?  It's all the same stuff on PI, some of which I'd be just as glad to never see again (much like story arcs from 1 to 10 or whatever is for other people).  I'm pretty sure that origin boat has sailed though. 

[esotericist]

6 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I thought the character's origin also dictates which starting story arcs you get, who you get sent to first?  Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of thing pop up all the way through to 50; especially after what 40 or so?  It's all the same stuff on PI, some of which I'd be just as glad to never see again (much like story arcs from 1 to 10 or whatever is for other people).  I'm pretty sure that origin boat has sailed though. 

this hasn't really been true in practical purposes since the atlas park/mercy island revamp.

 

you can go to the FBSA contacts to start those paths directly, but you have a fairly narrow window in which to do so due to how quickly you can outlevel them.

[Doc_Scorpion]

14 minutes ago, esotericist said:

you can go to the FBSA contacts to start those paths directly, but you have a fairly narrow window in which to do so due to how quickly you can outlevel them.

Ultimately...  permanent Double XP is the real challenge to revitalizing the lower level game.

[esotericist]

Just now, Doc_Scorpion said:

Ultimately...  permanent Double XP is the real challenge to revitalizing the lower level game.

meanwhile, i'm asking for half XP.

[Replacement]

Tiny level ranges for arcs is the issue.  I would choose 4x XP and +5-10 level range for contact access any day. 

 

Disclaimer: Part of my altism is choosing arcs for my characters.  My opinions are fundamentally incompatible with players who need to have "completionist" toons that run all arcs on the same character.  My ideal is to have a character that begins an arc at level 1, run 15 different story arcs, and be level 50.

[Chris24601]

Regarding the changes to Enhancements effectively dropping TOs and relegating DO's to role of cheaper slotting at the lowest levels, I'd like to make a suggestion;

 

Color-code the Enhancement text using the standard colors to make it easier to see at a glance whether something is a DO or SO and make it easier for new players who are familiar with traditional color coding by rarity to realize that DO's are meant to be inferior to SOs.

 

My suggestion would be that DO's titles would be green (default level -2 colors) while SO's titles would be blue (level -1 color), leaving common IOs as white and the set IOs as yellow, orange and purple.

 

That way when a new player gets a drop they'll see green (traditionally a mid-grade drop in the green, blue, purple, gold hierarchy used by many other games) DOs and blue SOs (a step up for both CoH and the common hierarchy used elsewhere) which plays to the common expectations that a blue is better than a green.

 

Then, by the time they get to IOs they should be familiar enough with CoH's color schemes to judge white, yellow, orange and purple IOs appropriately.

[Gorgar]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:20 PM, Doc_Scorpion said:

I'm in firm agreement with this.  Get rid of TOs.  Get rid of DOs.  Get rid of SOs.

Replace them with a consolidated all levels system of AOs (All Origins).  Use the IO model where the fixed level of benefit scales with the level of the enhancement, but they never actually "go bad" and cease to provide any benefit at all.  Or use the current (T/D/SO) model, but instead of going bad and providing no benefit after a point - they always provide a minimum benefit equivalent to the current -3 benefit.

The origin enhancement system is an irrelevant remnant of a game system that was never implemented and likely is never going to be.  Keep it for flavor and to choose the "temporary" power, but sweep the rest of it into the dustbin of history.

Late to the discussion, but I've wanted this for a long time.  I'd go one further and allow any slot to be filled with an AO of any type the power can be slotted with.  Still can use IOs if you want, but if you're going to use generic single-purpose ones, there's not really any reason, to me, to have to go buy them at a store.

[TraumaTrain]

I too would like a half XP option.

[kenlon]

It was mentioned in the April 4th patch notes thread that TOs were being removed, but I'm still getting them as drops on test. Did I misunderstand what was happening?