Powers that would need to change if Hasten gets nerfed

[Zepp]

Long title, I know. In a discussion about 7.5% recharge procs the desire to nerf Hasten once again reared its ugly head. Just some background on my relationship to Hasten. I used it when it required the pompoms of death, and was not as popular as it has become. However, I have actually been very careful about inclusion of it in my builds and found that I only need it in two of my 19 current builds. So, I was thinking, there are a couple of powers that really need to be up all the time for a set to function well and need perma-Hasten to do this.

 

I was going to start off with two powers and then continue the list with discussion on whether specific powers should be included or excluded based on argumentation.
Illusion Control - Summon Phantom Army

Time Manipulation - Chrono Shift

Time Manipulation - Temporal Selection

Psionic Mastery - Mind Link

Cold Domination - Benumb

Nature Affinity - Overgrowth

Nature Affinity - Wild Growth

 

Please feel free to argue and make further suggestions. The goal is to figure out what powers would need to be reworked in the case of a Hasten nerf.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Zepp
Adding suggestions

[Troo]

?! huh

 

Who has indicated a Hasten nerf and why? Was there a dev discussion on discord or someplace? Or is this 'sky is fallin' poppycock.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Troo

[Zepp]

50 minutes ago, Troo said:

?! huh

Certain sets would be disproportionately harmed be a Hasten nerf. This thread is finding and debating keystone powers that would need a recharge reduction if Hasten gets hit with the nerf bat.

[Indystruck]

Anything that isn't a t1 blast power.

[Darkneblade]

Probably most of control sets. They have way longer recharge especially nukes which deals no damage. So it is pretty much important to keep %100 uptime.

Fade is probably one of them. Since Dark Affinity doesn't have recharge bonus powers unlike time and kinetics and electric affinity.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Darkneblade

[Greycat]

None at all. *Playstyles* might be. The sets themselves would be fine.

[Haijinx]

ERROR

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Long ago in ye olden times back when MMO's were shiny and new and the great beast of FPS had not yet ruined the lands i was a hasten-thumper. Hasten could do no wrong

Hasten went into every single build. More recharge was always better it was so cheap so useful and came with very little downside. I like many other returned to HC with eager hearts and open minds. I made 50 after 50 building, crafting, speccing and playing (oh yes the glorious playing). When i hit my 19th character or so i decided to make a Dominator. I researched well and discovered permadom and built a powerful dominator the likes of which has never been seen (yeah right, lol). After playing the dominator for a month i discovered having to constantly remember to either hit haste OR domination all the time was annoying (i wasn't good at binds at the time). So i began more research. Was it possible to have permadom without hasten? After a week of fiddling with builds i discovered yes it was not only possible it was cheaper and easier to exclude hasten from the build and still have permadom. This also freed up a power pool for other purposes. Henceforth i placed domination on auto and basked in the sheer delight of a well balanced dominator. So i wondered how much my other characters would benefit from removing hasten and freeing up a pool. I went back and retuned many old characters and for the most part i have not looked back. Super strength's Rage does not require hasten to be perma. Out of 25 builds only ONE character required hasten, the Peacebringer. So am i doing all the DPS i can do without hasten? probably not but.........Every single character from blaster to widow and everything in between is so well balanced they can easily solo 4x8 and i dont mean council i mean malta, cot the knives of artemis but not carnies cause lets face it <bleep carnies>. So if hasten gets nerfed i wont notice it. Amazing builds can be made without hasten. Just try it.

[Herotu]

Spring Attack

[Lines]

Lower DPS isn't a concern for me. Would go from excessively brutal to a bit less excessively brutal.

 

I'd miss it on my Doms, because permadom is neat.

 

My empath would feel it, not being able to fire off fortitude and the other buff I forgot the name of as often. It would be the difference between sustaining three Forts or just two. I think a few support characters with slow recharge, single target buffs will be in this boat.

 

My human only warshade probably wouldn't survive without regular access to stygian circle, sunless mire, etc.

 

Other than that, I can't think of anyone else I'd really miss it on.

 

Does it need a nerf though? It's a good power, but that's fine.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Lines

[Herotu]

So... what... would the game be better if every ability were reassessed in terms of cooldowns? I'd love to bin hasten- I hate wasting my auto on it. I always forget to hit the "click when off cooldown" powers.

Perhaps those powers (like Hasten) should be Toggle/Auto instead somehow? Perhaps a new class of AutoPeriodic powers?

[Zepp]

My Human-only PB, Tri-form Warshade, and all my Perma-Dom Doms seem to be fine without Hasten. The two powers listed in the OP were the only two that I had issues with that could not be resolved sans Hasten.

[Replacement]

Domination is the big one, but that's its own topic.

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Zepp said:

Please feel free to argue and make further suggestions. The goal is to figure out what powers would need to be reworked in the case of a Hasten nerf.

If you don't want to stop people being able to perma PA or Chronoshift, why bother to nerf Hasten in the first place?  Literally the only reason to nerf Hasten would be its effects on other powers.  By itself, Hasten is completely useless and has no effect on anything or anyone.  Nerfing Hasten and then reworking the powers that are most significantly affected by Hasten in order to undo the effect of the Hasten nerf would be completely bonkers. 

 

That wouldn't be so much 'nerfing Hasten' as 'applying a significant buff by giving the big recharge-dependent powers the benefit of Hasten without needing a power pick or slots'.

[Zepp]

8 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

If you don't want to stop people being able to perma PA or Chronoshift, why bother to nerf Hasten in the first place?  Literally the only reason to nerf Hasten would be its effects on other powers.  By itself, Hasten is completely useless and has no effect on anything or anyone.  Nerfing Hasten and then reworking the powers that are most significantly affected by Hasten in order to undo the effect of the Hasten nerf would be completely bonkers. 

 

That wouldn't be so much 'nerfing Hasten' as 'applying a significant buff by giving the big recharge-dependent powers the benefit of Hasten without needing a power pick or slots'.

I don't want Hasten nerfed. I'm just saying there are certain sets that would be disproportionately harmed. Illusion trades most of its control for the ability to control aggro, which means that perma-PA is a keystone to the set. Nerfing Hasten would severely limit your choice of secondary if you were running Illusion. Time Manipulation is a set that is about controlling the pace of battle. Ironically, its keystone, Chronoshift, requires Hasten to be perma, and thus function.

 

My primary position is that Hasten should stay as is.

My secondary position is that if Hasten is nerfed, the powersets most significantly harmed by the loss of Hasten will need to be adjusted. This thread is about identifying specific powersets/powers that really need Hasten. It is basically trying to make it clear how much work would need to be done for these "fixes" to Hasten, such as making it a toggle at 50% or an auto power at 30-40%, or adding more of an endurance cost (to some sets that need Hasten to function but are already endurance-intensive).

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, Grouchybeast said:

If you don't want to stop people being able to perma PA or Chronoshift, why bother to nerf Hasten in the first place?  Literally the only reason to nerf Hasten would be its effects on other powers.  By itself, Hasten is completely useless and has no effect on anything or anyone.  Nerfing Hasten and then reworking the powers that are most significantly affected by Hasten in order to undo the effect of the Hasten nerf would be completely bonkers. 

 

That wouldn't be so much 'nerfing Hasten' as 'applying a significant buff by giving the big recharge-dependent powers the benefit of Hasten without needing a power pick or slots'.

1) Hasten by design doesnt "do anything by itself", that's like saying Build Up doesnt do anything either.

 

2) I think we need some data on recharge vs duration in general before we eyeball powers

[Troo]

Some powers are slower recharging. That is by design.

 

I'm all for gathering some data and seeing where there are obvious discrepancies.

[Naraka]

8 hours ago, Zepp said:

Please feel free to argue and make further suggestions. The goal is to figure out what powers would need to be reworked in the case of a Hasten nerf.

I think your premise is an illusion.

 

What makes you think you were entitled to Perma-PA or Chronoshift?  If suddenly those powers could not be made always-up powers, I can guarantee those sets would still function just fine.

[Rathulfr]

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Long ago in ye olden times back when MMO's were shiny and new and the great beast of FPS had not yet ruined the lands i was a hasten-thumper. Hasten could do no wrong

Hasten went into every single build. More recharge was always better it was so cheap so useful and came with very little downside. I like many other returned to HC with eager hearts and open minds. I made 50 after 50 building, crafting, speccing and playing (oh yes the glorious playing). When i hit my 19th character or so i decided to make a Dominator. I researched well and discovered permadom and built a powerful dominator the likes of which has never been seen (yeah right, lol). After playing the dominator for a month i discovered having to constantly remember to either hit haste OR domination all the time was annoying (i wasn't good at binds at the time). So i began more research. Was it possible to have permadom without hasten? After a week of fiddling with builds i discovered yes it was not only possible it was cheaper and easier to exclude hasten from the build and still have permadom. This also freed up a power pool for other purposes. Henceforth i placed domination on auto and basked in the sheer delight of a well balanced dominator. So i wondered how much my other characters would benefit from removing hasten and freeing up a pool. I went back and retuned many old characters and for the most part i have not looked back. Super strength's Rage does not require hasten to be perma. Out of 25 builds only ONE character required hasten, the Peacebringer. So am i doing all the DPS i can do without hasten? probably not but.........Every single character from blaster to widow and everything in between is so well balanced they can easily solo 4x8 and i dont mean council i mean malta, cot the knives of artemis but not carnies cause lets face it <bleep carnies>. So if hasten gets nerfed i wont notice it. Amazing builds can be made without hasten. Just try it.

[Rathulfr]

Welcome to the pre-freakout thread for the hypothetical "nerf Hasten" thread that hasn't been posted (yet, this week).  😄

[Rathulfr]

For the record: Nerf Hasten.  That is all. 😎

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Rathulfr]

4 hours ago, Herotu said:

Spring Attack

Jump Kick

[Herotu]

10 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Jump Kick

Now you're just being facecio.. facetio.. facesio.. funny.

[Troo]

brawl..

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, Herotu said:

Now you're just being facecio.. facetio.. facesio.. funny.

"Now"? 😉