Let's ungimp Lord Recluse

[Razor Cure]

So RSF and STF are meant to be two of the most difficult task forces in the game. Obviously, with incarnates and IOs that difficulty is a lot less, but some teams still struggle (there was a thread about it recently).

However..the difficulty of the two is far and away skewed, with STF never fighting more than 4 Avs at once (which are easily seperated) and a final fight of just one AV, Lord Recluse.

And he sucks.

He sucks because he is EASILY gimped by simply flying over him, or, as I saw tonight, spawning a Crafting Station in front of his tower doors. This KEPT his attention the entire time, and just makes a complete mockery of the battle.

Make Lord Reculse great again.

Give him a Webgrenade power with a HUGE range, easily spammable on silly melees who think 'tanking' means to hover over him.

Remove whatever AI block makes him really really HATE those crafting stations.

 

It is meant to be one of the toughest fights in the game.

[eSpicy]

I agree, that fact that it can be soloed says enough... 

[Mr. Vee]

You could always just not kill towers or the flyer to add some extra difficulty. About half the teams I do it with don't even bother with the red tower anymore. The thread you mentioned would make me leery of the changes you mentioned since evidently casual teams are still having troubles. I wasn't aware of the crafting station thing but that bit definitely should be fixed. I didn't even know those worked in combat or drew aggro. 

[Nayeh]

20 minutes ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

You could always just not kill towers or the flyer to add some extra difficulty. About half the teams I do it with don't even bother with the red tower anymore. The thread you mentioned would make me leery of the changes you mentioned since evidently casual teams are still having troubles. I wasn't aware of the crafting station thing but that bit definitely should be fixed. I didn't even know those worked in combat or drew aggro. 

I could be wrong but I'm assuming they strategically placed the station at the door so as to get Lord Recluse stuck in the game geometry or they somehow draw aggro as a NPC. (An exploit, it would be considered in most games.)

 

Set a flag so Crafting Stations can't be summoned inside a Mission. *shrugs*

Edited April 26, 2020 by Nayeh
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[nihilii]

The very fact people use unconventional strategies to beat Lord Recluse suggests he's enough of a threat to most people.

When was the last time you saw a team *not* bumrush the final 7 in the LRSF?

Let me rephrase it: you can trivialize the final 7 through pulling and flying as well. But people don't bother because they don't need to.

This goes for most traditional tasks. Before the devs went all out breaking the rules of their own game in incarnate content, there's always a "cheap" way to get through it.

[ArchVileTerror]

Give Recluse a Teleport Foe Power and a -Fly Web'nade.  Tighten up the cycle for his attack chain to squeeze those in.  That ought to make things interesting!

[Oubliette_Red]

How about we leave Recluse and the STF the way it is so players without kited-out builds can still use strategy to defeat it.

 

Instead why not enable Ouroboros flashback settings to SFs/TFs and what the hell, missions too. That way those who feel like they are no longer being challenged, can nerf themselves, buff the enemies, set timers, etc.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Oubliette_Red

[ArchVileTerror]

Very true, Oubli.

 

But . . . come on!   It's /Recluse/!  The only NPC who should be more difficult to beat is Blue Steel.

[Sakura Tenshi]

I do want to make some kind of snide remark, but there is an interesting point in the OP: The States/Miss Lib and Recluse TFs ARE supposed to be sort of pinnacle difficulty content.

 

Now I know something like this has been suggested for TFs before and it's a bit too resource intensive to make one for all of them (shoot, even FFXIV doesn't do this for all it's dungeons) but what if we made a "Hard mode" for these two which were designed more to account for fully specced out incarnate players?

[Burnt Toast]

19 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I do want to make some kind of snide remark, but there is an interesting point in the OP: The States/Miss Lib and Recluse TFs ARE supposed to be sort of pinnacle difficulty content.

 

Now I know something like this has been suggested for TFs before and it's a bit too resource intensive to make one for all of them (shoot, even FFXIV doesn't do this for all it's dungeons) but what if we made a "Hard mode" for these two which were designed more to account for fully specced out incarnate players?

There already is a hard mode.... you can turn off inspirations, no temp powers, etc etc... AND then your team can choose not to do the towers as well. 

 

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I do want to make some kind of snide remark, but there is an interesting point in the OP: The States/Miss Lib and Recluse TFs ARE supposed to be sort of pinnacle difficulty content.

 

Now I know something like this has been suggested for TFs before and it's a bit too resource intensive to make one for all of them (shoot, even FFXIV doesn't do this for all it's dungeons) but what if we made a "Hard mode" for these two which were designed more to account for fully specced out incarnate players?

They were the pinnacle pre incarnate, now it's magisterium, minds of mayhem etc.

 

I know its in jest but basically in the personal mission, Marcus Cole destroys all of Arachnos patrons, lessers, Lord recluse and all....

 

Solo....

 

Without taking damage.

 

That sets the stage for his power level in magisterium.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Infinitum

[Caulderone]

8 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Instead why not enable Ouroboros flashback settings to SFs/TFs and what the hell, missions too. That way those who feel like they are no longer being challenged, can nerf themselves, buff the enemies, set timers, etc.

As a primary solo player, I would like this, especially if they were all capable of dropping to EB.  Then, I could experience the story on my own without having uber-DPS.

[Razor Cure]

12 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

How about we leave Recluse and the STF the was it is so players without kited-out builds can still use strategy to defeat it.

Really? So HOW did people manage it back when it was brand new? I think IOs were also brand new back then, so no way was anywhere near as tricked out as they are now.

Oh that's right..you planned a team for it, since it was one of the toughest things in game.

 

10 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

There already is a hard mode.... you can turn off inspirations, no temp powers, etc etc... AND then your team can choose not to do the towers as well.

Yes. A 'hard' modes that still lets you glitch out one of the toughest baddies in the game. Or totally render him useless, in the case of the crafting station thing.

 

4 hours ago, Caulderone said:

As a primary solo player, I would like this, especially if they were all capable of dropping to EB.  Then, I could experience the story on my own without having uber-DPS.

Maybe if it was worth way way less rewards. A hami for doing it solo, with EBs? That would be a joke.

[Oubliette_Red]

 

9 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

13 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

How about we leave Recluse and the STF the was it is so players without kited-out builds can still use strategy to defeat it.

 

Really? So HOW did people manage it back when it was brand new? I think IOs were also brand new back then, so no way was anywhere near as tricked out as they are now.

Oh that's right..you planned a team for it, since it was one of the toughest things in game.

 

Oh right... kinda like I said.

 

 

And to reiterate, the game already has mechanics that can change the difficulty for teams who want more of a challenge, without affecting it for players that still find it plenty challenging as is.

Quote

Instead why not enable Ouroboros flashback settings to SFs/TFs and what the hell, missions too. That way those who feel like they are no longer being challenged, can nerf themselves, buff the enemies, set timers, etc.

 

[Greycat]

If part of the issue is "balance vs incarnates compared to non incarnates," do we need perhaps to make a fully incarnate version of Recluse?

 

Breaks lore, somewhat, with Tyrant wiping the floor with him, but he *is* one, after all. Maybe if half the team is incarnated, the incarnate version spawns? Possibly cheese-able, but ... *shrug* Or you get an option where a fully IO'd team chooses "stronger recluse" for a challenge?

[FrauleinMental]

Just make Recluse spam the Bane Spider Executioner summons like he does outside the TF.

[ShardWarrior]

On 4/26/2020 at 3:18 AM, Razor Cure said:

He sucks because he is EASILY gimped by simply flying over him

Yes that is called using strategy.  Players are doing this in all kinds of content throughout the entire game. 

[krj12]

As with most endgame task forces, I wish they would add an  incarnate option to make it more difficult.

With this setting, perhaps:

1.  Give all the mobs an additional level or two.

2.  Bump up the stats of the AVs.

3.  Give the AV an extra ability or two.

 

 

[Burnt Toast]

8 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Really? So HOW did people manage it back when it was brand new? I think IOs were also brand new back then, so no way was anywhere near as tricked out as they are now.

Oh that's right..you planned a team for it, since it was one of the toughest things in game.

 

Yes. A 'hard' modes that still lets you glitch out one of the toughest baddies in the game. Or totally render him useless, in the case of the crafting station thing.

 

Maybe if it was worth way way less rewards. A hami for doing it solo, with EBs? That would be a joke.

What does it matter if someone else does that? Not sure how this stops YOU from doing a hard mode with the tools already available?

[Oubliette_Red]

5 hours ago, Greycat said:

If part of the issue is "balance vs incarnates compared to non incarnates," do we need perhaps to make a fully incarnate version of Recluse?

 

Breaks lore, somewhat, with Tyrant wiping the floor with him, but he *is* one, after all. Maybe if half the team is incarnated, the incarnate version spawns? Possibly cheese-able, but ... *shrug* Or you get an option where a fully IO'd team chooses "stronger recluse" for a challenge?

This has me wondering, can you create Incarnate-level mission in AE?

 

Not trying to push players to AE for a more difficult Recluse, but I think it's a good proving ground for in-canon arcs that perhaps the devs could use to translate into a full-fleshed mission arc/TF/SF.

 

Although I think allowing for an Incarnate-level option in TFs/SFs would be the better path.

 

[tidge]

Lord Recluse didn't have his 'towers of power' when facing Marcus Cole in that solo missions... although come to think of it in the last mission of "Who Will Die?" Lord Recluse doesn't seem all that Incarnate either.

 

I agree that these missions don't need to be boosted just because full-kits of Incarnate players can finish them. As much fun as it would be to have the entire Grandville map descend towards the towers while the players are attacking the towers, we actually do want to have missions in the game that DON'T require full-kit Incarnates to complete, especially when the reward can be a synthetic HO.

[Noyjitat]

On 4/26/2020 at 3:18 AM, Razor Cure said:

So RSF and STF are meant to be two of the most difficult task forces in the game. Obviously, with incarnates and IOs that difficulty is a lot less, but some teams still struggle (there was a thread about it recently).

However..the difficulty of the two is far and away skewed, with STF never fighting more than 4 Avs at once (which are easily seperated) and a final fight of just one AV, Lord Recluse.

And he sucks.

He sucks because he is EASILY gimped by simply flying over him, or, as I saw tonight, spawning a Crafting Station in front of his tower doors. This KEPT his attention the entire time, and just makes a complete mockery of the battle.

Make Lord Reculse great again.

Give him a Webgrenade power with a HUGE range, easily spammable on silly melees who think 'tanking' means to hover over him.

Remove whatever AI block makes him really really HATE those crafting stations.

 

It is meant to be one of the toughest fights in the game.

He would still be easy even with the change. The game is largely tank and spank and thats why nothing outside of a select few trials are difficult. Need hard mode versions of all tfs with damage circles like and stuff that force you to actually move or die. The mom trial, keyes, apex tf and magisterium do this well.

 

i say hard mode meaning it’s optional and in the tf list or at the contact. They would offer classic and hardmode.

[BrandX]

22 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I do want to make some kind of snide remark, but there is an interesting point in the OP: The States/Miss Lib and Recluse TFs ARE supposed to be sort of pinnacle difficulty content.

 

Now I know something like this has been suggested for TFs before and it's a bit too resource intensive to make one for all of them (shoot, even FFXIV doesn't do this for all it's dungeons) but what if we made a "Hard mode" for these two which were designed more to account for fully specced out incarnate players?

 

Going to have to disagree.  They WERE pinnacle difficulty content.

 

That pinnacle difficulty moved onto other content, as your characters moved pass that stage, which is level 50, no Incarnates.

 

Without Incarnates, I'm trying to recall if the TFs were simple with just IO builds, but I believe even then, they had some difficulty, at least without specific team make ups.

[ShardWarrior]

22 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Now I know something like this has been suggested for TFs before and it's a bit too resource intensive to make one for all of them (shoot, even FFXIV doesn't do this for all it's dungeons) but what if we made a "Hard mode" for these two which were designed more to account for fully specced out incarnate players?

Alternatively, why not create new content that is specifically for incarnates?

[SeraphimKensai]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:12 PM, ArchVileTerror said:

Give Recluse a Teleport Foe Power...  That ought to make things interesting!

I just imagined Lord Recluse with a super TP Foe power, targeting the tank, and teleport them out to Cascade Archipelago, as he shouts enjoy the journey back.