Reinstate 2x influence at 50

[Generator]

4 hours ago, Sovera said:

A Tinpex (actually two TFs despite being grouped as one) yield 80 merits and takes about 40 minutes or less to run both. A double Hami grants 120 merits if the merit reward is picked twice and takes about half an hour total. Abyss Hami is the same and does not share the cooldown on rewards with Hive's Hami.

 

So that's 320 merits which even at 80k per converts makes for about 76 million for a bit less than two hours. And those two hours don't need to be frantically done back to back without a pause.

 

And that's on one character. Run on multiples if need be. Boring running the same content everyday? Geez louise, this is advice for someone who wants to spend hours running farms.

Thanks for the breakdown.  👍

[Crysis]

20 hours ago, Troo said:

No.. no no no no

 

Let me get this right: You don't want to put in the work but you want all the toys?

 

The following statement is completely untroo: "If I cannot make the money to afford the best IOs in the game then I cannot fully enjoy the game and its end game content, task forces etc."

 

Correct statements:

• A level 50 using only single origin enhancements can unlock their Alpha slot and participate in all the content.
• Leveling through game play to 50 provides enough rewards ($$, recipes, reward merits, etc.) to get many Invention Origin sets.
• It took me months to get my first character to 50.

To be fair, “cannot fully ENJOY the game” is entirely subjective.  Relative to the influence gains you used to be able to make relative to effort versus today, it’s not as enjoyable today versus a month or so ago for some.

 

Personally, I find Marketeering an utterly boring way to spend my in-game time.  Clicking, dragging, converting....that’s “administrivia” effort in a terrible UI.  I may as well be saving the same Microsoft Word document over and over and over again.  But to some, Marketeering is an ENJOYABLE past time.  To others, farming is an ENJOYABLE past time.

 

Not that it matters at this point as we’ve been instructed by the developers to quit enjoying ourselves doing one thing and if we want the goodies to do the other thing instead. 

 

Just because you find enjoyment in one manner and I in another doesn’t make either method less relevant.  But in this case, the past method of finding enjoyment in the game is now...well...the past.  Adapt or move on.  You are actually being very actively encouraged by the Devs right now, as well as many of the hardcore players on this board, to “move on” if you don’t want to play the game “this way” as the nerf bats just keep coming along.  

 

However, if you look a couple posts above this one in General....

 

 

The recommendations in this are basically to do repeated Tin Mage/Apex and double Hami Raids daily for a few days.  That will net you 1200+ merits for roughly 90 mins of playtime per day for 4 days.  In other words, “grind” it out and you can have 12 purples in 4 days.  Grinding is now the “approved” method to play if you want to enjoy the perks the fastest.  

 

That said.....spending 1200 merits on 12 purples is effectively spending way too much per purple.  Playing “City of Converters” will get you the same 12 purples far cheaper if you just place some low bids on Absolute Amazements or something similar.  I’ve several mule alts sitting on 100 purples each at this point....it’s not that hard to accumulate them over time and then use them as you need them.  I seldom sell anything other than basic IO’s, keeping all the PVP’s and Purples for my own alt use.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Crysis

[skoryy]

16 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Relative to the influence gains you used to be able to make relative to effort versus today, it’s not as enjoyable today versus a month or so ago for some.

 

Not that it matters at this point as we’ve been instructed by the developers to quit enjoying ourselves doing one thing and if we want the goodies to do the other thing instead. 

Again, the prices in the AH on pretty much everything have been going down since the patch.  Its now more enjoyable today versus a couple months ago for others.

[Lunchmoney]

As a casual player I've managed everything you say can't be done. Barring the last 6 months where I've not played at all I managed maybe a couple of hours a week.

[ArchVileTerror]

How is it that each person here defines "casual?"  Precisely.

That might help.

[Carnifax]

40 minutes ago, Crysis said:

That said.....spending 1200 merits on 12 purples is effectively spending way too much per purple.  Playing “City of Converters” will get you the same 12 purples far cheaper if you just place some low bids on Absolute Amazements or something similar.  I’ve several mule alts sitting on 100 purples each at this point....it’s not that hard to accumulate them over time and then use them as you need them.  I seldom sell anything other than basic IO’s, keeping all the PVP’s and Purples for my own alt use.

Doing "City of converters" on a load of uncommon level 31 IOs you bought, crafted and converted yourself will probably get you there even quicker to be honest. Like I said above I don't bother buying Purple sets but I've found this gives the most bang for my Merits for ATOs and other sets I do use. 

 

I turned around 40 merits into 120 converters and then roughly 80 million yesterday using this method (apparently it's 82 million with 6 or so still pending, but this char had < 10 million in his wallet when I started). Most rare enhancements get you 1-2 million, damage procs 1-4 million, most defense ones 2-5 and uniques go from 3.5-7.5. Doesn't take too long either so long as you're willing to wait a day or two for your uncommon bids and aren't selling everything at "Sell it now" prices. 

[tidge]

6 hours ago, Skygod said:

Keep your xp on, the Incarnate powers are just as powerful as purples (or moreso) and easier to consistently work towards than random drops and an ever-changing market.

I'll just add this to the above: Once your toon has Incarnate abilities slotted, it is easy to run 45-50+ content at x8, which will improve your chance at those high-end recipe drops (while also netting you XP, Inf, etc.)

5 hours ago, Carnifax said:

This. Lots of people chase Purps and Winters when in fact they may not even be the best option for a character. Certainly they aren't the most cost effective.

 

4 hours ago, Turric said:

This. As someone stated earlier in this thread, the purples are nice for 1) chasing the recharge maximization, 2) capping your fire/cold resists. Otherwise, I would rather have Touch of Death in a melee power that gives me the +3.75% S/L resistance, +3.75% melee defense and +2.5% to damage. For me, those have always been more useful in a build. Don't get me wrong, the bonuses to accuracy and recovery are very nice, but all things being equal, I simply do not find them to be an efficient use IN COMBINATION with the other bonuses and considering the cost involved.

Kudos to @Carnifaxand @Turric  for pointing out something that may not be obvious to folks who 'casually' review builds posted in the forum: 'Expensive' IO sets are not always the best choice for builds. The biggest advantage of them IMO is that ATO, Purple and PVP IOs scale with level... but in terms of set bonuses (some repeating of Turric's post):

• Winter IOs: Generally for Fire/Cold/Slow resists (ad Defense), with an emphasis on Positional Defenses
• Very Rare (Purple) IOs: Generally for Global Accuracy and Global Recharge. These sets also tend to NOT have much emphasis on Accuracy as Damage.
• ATOs are a mixed bag, Global Recharge is a common thing to 'chase', usually with many pieces.
• PVP: A really mixed bag in terms of set bonuses (in PvE); I think it is safe to say that most post-50 'power builds' don't leverage many set bonuses (procs will be favored)

There are quite a few 'bargain-priced' damage sets that offer strong Defense numbers, global Recharge bonuses, Endurance assistance. I have a couple of uncommon sets that I usually prefer over the rare sets: Mocking Beratement over Perfect Zinger, Undermined Defenses over Touch of Lady Grey, Thunderstrike over just about anything. Running level 50 content you should be able to afford entire (attuned) sets of these by simply selling common IO recipe drops to a vendor (~100 kINF each at level 50).

 

On Marketeering: I can understand how folks might find spending time in the auction House boring... but what are you doing with your (uncommon) recipe and salvage drops? Invest some INF to craft and convert the uncommon recipes and you can get a much better return than just selling them to a vendor. Rare recipes can make a profit as well, but the salvage investment cost is much higher.

[Luminara]

24 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

How is it that each person here defines "casual?"  Precisely.

That might help.

 

Not required to grind ceaselessly for minor stat improvements or increments of levels.  Having the capability to progress without the necessity of treating a game like a second full-time job.  Relaxed structure of play which can still feel rewarding without requiring months-long or years-long goals to serve as milestones.

[TinyBolt]

7 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

It's removing 10% of it.

True, but is that enough given the current inflation levels? I know some people who only run SO builds, which is another inf sink, but other than builds there's not too much to spend inf on in the game.

 

Of course, this is all made up money in a game, so perhaps inflation doesn't matter all that much as they have provided alternate methods of getting drops.

[SwitchFade]

7 hours ago, Digirium said:

Yup, you're right - the ability to turn of XP and accept inf instead ought to be re-enabled. It's removal was a mistake and hurt casual players the most. It's intended target, farmers, shrugged their shoulders adapted and moved on getting smarter with how to use the AH in the process. Homecoming massively over-reached in their "April Fools Day" patch.

I'm sorry, this is incorrect.

 

That's not how economics works.

 

Rampant inflation is a terrible idea and was curtailed for good reason. Please see the other monstrous thread about the details and math.

[MTeague]

If you refuse to farm

And you refuse to use Converter Roulette....

 

My sympathy levels are quite low. 

 

However, EVEN THEN, you can still do it.  Join a bunch of TF's, get a big pile of Merits, and you can buy the Purple recipes with Merits. 

Ya, it'll cost a TON of merits.  And you could far far far far faster if you learned to play the market.

But even if you take the market off the table, you can pile up merits and get your purples, one recipe at a time. 

[MTeague]

21 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

QFT: on Retail, I had exactly one (1) character with complete IO sets at shutdown, because IO sets were so ridiculously overpriced it was simply unaffordable/unattainable to do otherwise.  The fact that I have four (4) fully-equipped characters at 50+3 today astonishes me.

Seriously.  Back in 2011, or so, I rmember a SINGLE purple recipe going for literally billions of influence.  Or at least Hundred-Millions. I might have miscounted 1 zero.

It's far far far easier to gear up as a casual player on Homecoming. Night and Day.

[Bastille Boy]

I don't have an opinion about whether double inf was a good thing. I sympathize with the OP's point that it can be quite a chore to raise the money or merits to get a fully equipped level 50 character with a good build. There is an incentive to farm or to play the market, which some players enjoy, but many don't.

 

It's not about the purple recipes (as others have pointed out). Looking through the builds I use, the most purples I've used on a single toon is six: two sets of three, on the tanker proc monster I'm currently working on. My main, a Rad/Sonic defender with softcapped melee and ranged defense and 40% AOE defense, has no purple IOs at all. My PVP emp has three purples.

 

That said, my builds tend to use other expensive enhancements. My main has a full set of Superior Frozen Blast, 5/6 Superior Avalanche, and full sets of defender ATOs. Many of my other builds have a slew of Luck of the Gamblers and PVP IOs (often a set of 5 Panaceas somewhere, usually the Shield Wall +5% resist, always the Panacea proc and the Gladiator's Armor +3% defense).

[tidge]

21 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

QFT: on Retail, I had exactly one (1) character with complete IO sets at shutdown, because IO sets were so ridiculously overpriced it was simply unaffordable/unattainable to do otherwise.  The fact that I have four (4) fully-equipped characters at 50+3 today astonishes me.

Slacker. Each of those 50+3 characters has TWO OTHER BUILDS  for you to fully kit. Embrace the Ebil.

[MTeague]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

Slacker. Each of those 50+3 characters has TWO OTHER BUILDS  for you to fully kit. Embrace the Ebil.

I've never created a second build on ANY character yet.  

Although I keep *realllly* thinking about it for my Mind/Kin every time he goes for a "No Enhancements" badge in Ouroborous, because he doesnt' have Tactics.

No enhancements plus no tactics = City of Whiffs

[JasperStone]

21 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I feel terrified getting drawn in to this thread, because I know how vitriolic people get on this subject . . . but I'm somewhat on the side of FullEclipse here, and I think it sucks that there has to be "sides" on this . . . 

 

The game NEEDS a reward overhaul; the Homecoming Team even acknowledged this numerous times!  Frankly though, I feel that should have happened BEFORE the removal of Double Inf at 50, which was originally a feature added to the game to motivate and encourage players to play with lower-level characters by Exemplar'ing/Malefactoring.  The Double Inf was extended as an option to any time you chose to play without Experience Gain, which I firmly believe was the right design decision.  Obviously, not all design decisions from the original Legacy development are sacrosanct, but I am aghast at how out-of-touch changes like this feel to the players who were just playing the game as they had grown used to -for years.-

In-game rewards are motivators for playing.  Yes, they're meaningless in the grand scheme of reality, but they provide a touchstone for players to feel like what they're doing in the game has purpose.  

 

FullEclipse isn't wrong to be upset by feeling left out due to this change.  It was the Homecoming Team pulling the rug out from under the feet of players like this.  The Devs' motivation may have been to improve the health of the player-market economy, but that is literally changing PvE to benefit PvP.  Because that's what the player-market is:  PvP.  

 

Of all the changes the Homecoming Team has done, I feel this one was handled the most poorly.  And it feels bad.

I agree with all your points. An overhaul is needed. Influence, items, and recipes.

To add to the mix I am a daily player and not sure where that places me. The past two weeks I have resisted atltits and focused on one of my mains.

 

She is penniless. Not through buying recipes, but buying the necessary items to craft said recipe and the cost of crafting said recipe.

I do the WST and any offered TF and nightly Hami to get merits (Indom has fun and ordered run starting at 6:30pm EST). I can't MSR anymore due to my schedule.(2 runs a night starting at 8pm EST)

 

The statement of "you don't need purples" .... is only partially true.

Need  ... no. Want ... yes. They tend to offer bigger bonuses especially when you got fully slot a set.  I say restructure the bonuses offered and the labeling. No tiers of recipes. This sets offers me "abc bonuses" and this set offers "xyz bonuses". Do I want all the bonuses offered, or some and min/max. How interesting the game would be if set IOs went away ... Also I should need Mids to plan out a build. I don't use it and never have.

 

This would then mean changing the tier item labeling ... there would be none. 

 

This makes the market irrelevant. Still a big part of the making inf, but I shouldn't have to wait on a purple to make inf. My last one was a month ago ..... I have also noticed a significant drop off on set recipe drops. I did Manti and got one .... on a tf. One. I agree with not wanting to know how to play the market to make inf. 

 

Since the change there have been far less farm invites offered in LFG. At least on Indom. I used to  get a few levels on my lowbies, but wondering if people are doing them less.

 

I hesitant about changes. I played on live pre- ED and pre things like Gauntlet for Tanker or Containment for a Controller. ED ended up being devastating to some, while the latter ... not so much.

 

I am still playing. Still having a good time.

but this change has been notice. 

oooh another vet level ...yay!

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

I'm sorry, this is incorrect.

 

That's not how economics works.

 

Rampant inflation is a terrible idea and was curtailed for good reason. Please see the other monstrous thread about the details and math.

No!  More money is always better.

 

Its More Better!  

 

Pffts.  Inflation.  Economy.  Prices.  

 

 

[Haijinx]

39 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Seriously.  Back in 2011, or so, I rmember a SINGLE purple recipe going for literally billions of influence.  Or at least Hundred-Millions. I might have miscounted 1 zero.

It's far far far easier to gear up as a casual player on Homecoming. Night and Day.

Well.. yeah .. okay.  This is true.

 

But ..

 

I have 1500 character slots per server! 

 

That's a lot of purples I need!

[Rathulfr]

42 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I have 1500 character slots per server! 

What server are you playing on that gives you 1500 slots, instead of 1000?

[tidge]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

I've never created a second build on ANY character yet. 

IMO, VEATs benefit the most from having multiple builds (although once you go 'Crab', all your builds will have the pack). YMMV with other ATs. I have a multi-build Mastermind (more room for different power choices on that AT), and a few AT with a second build with Boosted/Not-attuned sets for moar powa.

 

You can stop your 'leveling up' on the second/third build at any point; I have never tested to see if I could go back to an old contact that I had outleveled (assuming I stopped at the right level range).

[Twisted Toon]

I have a character, AR/Dev blaster, that I am working on leveling with just level 25 IOs.

I sell all of the set recipes I get as well as all the rare and uncommon salvage at the AH.

Then I purchase what ever level 25 generic IO recipes I need for my slots as I get them.

Currently, at level 25, I have about 10 mill Inf.

I might start working on getting sets when I reach 30 or 35.

I figure, by the time I hit 50, I'll be able to afford most of the sets that I'll want to get.

[Greycat]

37 minutes ago, tidge said:

IMO, VEATs benefit the most from having multiple builds (although once you go 'Crab', all your builds will have the pack). YMMV with other ATs. I have a multi-build Mastermind (more room for different power choices on that AT), and a few AT with a second build with Boosted/Not-attuned sets for moar powa.

 

You can stop your 'leveling up' on the second/third build at any point; I have never tested to see if I could go back to an old contact that I had outleveled (assuming I stopped at the right level range).

I tend to do it with support characters, especially team-focused sets. One team build, one "selfish" build for soloing.

 

Also, contacts still see you as being whatever your max level is - it's just like you haven't gone to visit a trainer in however many levels.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Greycat

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Rathulfr said:

What server are you playing on that gives you 1500 slots, instead of 1000?

okay. 1000 then.  

 

Hmm.  That's only like 2/3rds as many purples I need now! 

[Lockpick]

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Not required to grind ceaselessly for minor stat improvements or increments of levels.  Having the capability to progress without the necessity of treating a game like a second full-time job.  Relaxed structure of play which can still feel rewarding without requiring months-long or years-long goals to serve as milestones.

We have that here though, right?  I played SWTOR while CoH was MIA.  That was a grind and could take hours daily to be able to upgrade a piece of gear once per week.

 

Here I can play for an hour and feel confident that at the end that hour I have made progress towards my goal.  If my goal is a purple IO I can get one in about an hour by running a double Hami, a TinPlex, use the AH, or even some missions / flashbacks / TFs.  There is very little grind here. 

 

3 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

I have a character, AR/Dev blaster, that I am working on leveling with just level 25 IOs.

I sell all of the set recipes I get as well as all the rare and uncommon salvage at the AH.

Then I purchase what ever level 25 generic IO recipes I need for my slots as I get them.

Currently, at level 25, I have about 10 mill Inf.

I might start working on getting sets when I reach 30 or 35.

I figure, by the time I hit 50, I'll be able to afford most of the sets that I'll want to get.

 

I do the same thing where at level 22 I slot level 25 IOs and use them until I can replace them.  I will use converters to make some money and buy some attuned IOs during the leveling process, so that by the time I hit 50 I really only need to focus on the expensive IOs (Purples, PVP, and Winter).

[Haijinx]

4 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

We have that here though, right?  I played SWTOR while CoH was MIA.  That was a grind and could take hours daily to be able to upgrade a piece of gear once per week.

 

Yeah but in SWTOR you only needed that better gear for PVP.  You could (I did) run through all the stories with just whatever gear you got as quest rewards for quests you would do anyway.  

 

Actually I spent a lot of time overlevelled for stuff due to all the side quests.  

 

And that was before they made the game even easier by genercisizing Stats making companions merely an aesthetic/story choice. 

 

That's for a game that is basically a solo game with some co-op thrown in.  (PVE wise)