Why does everyone seem to run +4/8 or nothing?

[JnEricsonx]

I gotta say, when you have a team that out of the 8, MAYBE half of it tops is 50, and the rest could be anywhere down to the teens, and you decide running 4/8 is a good idea....really?  Sometimes it can work, but that can be because the 50s and anyone close to that is pretty tough but, otherwise, it's not gonna help the others, their acc will be in the dirt, damage likewise, so on and so forth.  Speaking for myself, when I run a 50 team, I ask at least for people be 40+.  I start it off at 2/8, and if it goes well, go from there.   Otherwise, you have teams who keep wiping on near every other mob.

[Apparition]

At least some of it is AE babies who were carried by one level 50 in AE, so they think that they can be carried the rest of the way by one level 50, no problem.  I saw it quite a few times on ITFs.

[Greycat]

Well, "everyone" doesn't. Yeah, at higher ends, especially with Incarnated-out characters, that tends to be a thing... but there *is* the rest of the game 🙂

 

I've seen quite a few that do what you describe. Run at +2 and adjust. They're enjoyable.

[ScrewlooseCohh]

I would say there is potentially some correlation between the people who form teams and the people with the sort of minds and desire to make their characters perform above and beyond.

Those people are also interested in challenge, so if it isn't causing them issues then it isn't hard enough and they know they can survive +4/x8.

Myself I tend to have a look at what my teammates have set for their own missions.

I would estimate that about 20% of the people who join my teams have no missions.  I have no idea what they do in the game besides join other people's teams.  Although I did have one character which I decided not to get contact missions for just to see if I could.

About 50% of players are set at +0/x0 which makes me think they have never changed their difficulty settings.

Only about 15% of players who join my teams have a setting above +1.

My vague thought is that people who play on higher settings are team makers not team joiners.

Personally I only like so much challenge and erring on the side of cakewalk gives me less concern than setting too high so I often am a bit under what some players prefer.

regards, Screwloose

"I am not young enough to know everything."

 

[Giovanni Valia]

For me and a few others I know, we run at +4/8 on max incarnate/ enhancement optimized builds for the challenge. I personally will run missions at lowest difficulty settings when I am prioritizing the end reward, or have already completed said mission on another character. After going through the same mission for the 5th time, you tend to want to get through it as fast as possible.

[DrInfernus]

Think fully IO’d incarnates who can solo 54/x8 like to show off and <50s like the xp, so everyone is happy I guess. I’ve been in both camps so not going to judge. 

[drdread]

Personally, it depends on who the opponents are. I'll do +4/8 against Council or CoT, but not against Malta or Carnies.  Shifting to +4/8 gives a better chance for drops, but loot is not always the end goal.

[Coyotedancer]

2 hours ago, DrInfernus said:

Think fully IO’d incarnates who can solo 54/x8 like to show off and <50s like the xp, so everyone is happy I guess. I’ve been in both camps so not going to judge. 

 

That's a lot of it, I think... Plus the perception that the game as a whole is "too easy" and so if you AREN'T running at the highest difficulty settings you're just a bad player. Which is completely ridiculous, but still A Thing I guess. 

[Dazl]

2 hours ago, DrInfernus said:

Think fully IO’d incarnates who can solo 54/x8 like to show off and <50s like the xp, so everyone is happy I guess. I’ve been in both camps so not going to judge. 

Maybe not to show off per say. If they can solo 54/8 then it would make sense for them to run a team at that setting to maximize the rewards. If they announce they are forming +4/8 team and you don't think you can keep up, don't join.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Crimsonpyre

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

14 hours ago, JnEricsonx said:

I gotta say, when you have a team that out of the 8, MAYBE half of it tops is 50, and the rest could be anywhere down to the teens, and you decide running 4/8 is a good idea....really?  Sometimes it can work, but that can be because the 50s and anyone close to that is pretty tough but, otherwise, it's not gonna help the others, their acc will be in the dirt, damage likewise, so on and so forth.  Speaking for myself, when I run a 50 team, I ask at least for people be 40+.  I start it off at 2/8, and if it goes well, go from there.   Otherwise, you have teams who keep wiping on near every other mob.

Nope when I do decide to lead a PI radio team I always specifically ask for lowbies. Ill be running the leadership toggles, barrier, and have veng so I tend to be able to keep up most of the lowbies, and the one who ends up veng bait still is doing their fair share for the team.

 

I mean I do usually start off at +1 or 2 just to let the team get a chance to feel each other out but once I feel the groovin it usually goes to +4, especially if more then me are running leadership toggles. Leadership imo is one of those pools many tend to take purely for a slot mule then ignore, never really grasping how powerful the multiplicative buff factor is in coh. A team with everyone running leadership is factors stronger than a team without.

 

And no the team doesnt wipe, because I can solo it, and my barriar will res the first 2 to drop, ill of venged off one of those, and the rest of the team will be tanks.

 

A leader takes a team of sidekicks and turns them into titans!

[MangoKulfi]

My crab is the only 50 I start paper/radio teams with, they can solo 4/8 so other people are just there to make it go faster/get xp.

 

If I'm leveling via radios it's usually +2/5 minimum, 3/8 on my tanker.  I only bump it to +4 if someone asks.

 

Task Forces I figure most people don't want to speed through, but also not have it be a slog.  Unless the team wants to do it at higher levels, I run those at +0 except for certain missions.  1st misson on Moonfire, 3rd mission on Yin, and the defeat all after the hunts on Numina are good ones to bump up to +2.

[Coyote]

15 hours ago, JnEricsonx said:

their acc will be in the dirt, damage likewise, so on and so forth

 

Well, what kind of acc does one have to have to be "in the dirt"?
I'm sure a LOT of teams can do +4/x8 even with half the team having "only" 70% chance to hit as a base. I mean, everyone generally slots up to hit +1 with about 100% accuracy or more, at least, so fighting +4s should still be hitting 2/3 of the time. Add in some Tactics or an AoE -Defense debuff, and even lower levels should hit consistently.

I get it that if you're not at 95% you're feeling gimped, but it's not really true. You can still contribute damage, debuffing, and mezzing, not to mention that buffs for the team won't be affected.

It's quite possible to be lower level, with worse-than-capped Accuracy and still be a contributing member of the team. Nobody is really going to expect the sidekicked Level 22 without many slots and set bonuses to be putting out the effectiveness of a Level 50 on the team, so if they're both running that difficulty level and inviting lower levels, they're okay with the lower levels contributing some but not being one of the major supers on the team.

And that's fine, and if it's not... then why is the Level 22 accepting an invite to a Level 50 team? You should expect that you're not going to contribute as much when you're sidekicking up 20+ levels.

 

In short: lower level characters on high-difficulty higher-level teams aren't really a problem. They're Robins tagging along on Batman's missions, but that's fine if you're prepared for it. And if you're not, then team near the level of your character and you'll contribute more.

[MTeague]

Generally I quit out of groups that are chock full of incarnates after one mission, UNLESS, I am also a fully tricked out incarnate. 

The power rush can be fun when I feel like I have a snowballs chance in hell of meaningfully contributing. 

 

If i'm literally being carried and entire mob packs are obliterated before I could do anything, and the rare times I can act, I have a giant chance to miss.... no.  Some may enjoy it.  I do not. I immediately disable XP, because I do not want to be powerleveled under any circumstances, and I'll leave the team after.  If I'm invited by a friend, I MAY silently suffer through it for 2-4 missions with XP firmly disabled before I make up an excuse and log off. 

 

Honestly, I find lvl 44 and below content (where Incarnates are disabled) to be VASTLY more challenging and entertaining.

 

Being overpowered and stomping Council at +4x8 is not a challenge.  It may be fun, but it's NOT a challenge.

Going against Rularuu +4x8, or Night Ward +3x8, now we're getting into challenge territory.

 

 

[tidge]

12 hours ago, drdread said:

Personally, it depends on who the opponents are. I'll do +4/8 against Council or CoT, but not against Malta or Carnies.  Shifting to +4/8 gives a better chance for drops, but loot is not always the end goal.

For recipes:

• I believe that there is no change in drop rates for enemy levels, just rank... except that if enemies con low enough, there are no drops.
• Spawn size will increase the number of higher rank enemies, which will increase drop rates.

 

5 hours ago, MTeague said:

Honestly, I find lvl 44 and below content (where Incarnates are disabled) to be VASTLY more challenging and entertaining.

 

Being overpowered and stomping Council at +4x8 is not a challenge.  It may be fun, but it's NOT a challenge.

Going against Rularuu +4x8, or Night Ward +3x8, now we're getting into challenge territory.

/agree. I had a lot of fun on a mixed (level) team in Brickstown... nothing too thrilling, but even that was enjoyable watching the team adapt to higher (and higher) con enemies. Rularuu...*SHUDDER*

[drdread]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

For recipes:

• I believe that there is no change in drop rates for enemy levels, just rank... except that if enemies con low enough, there are no drops.

Chance of drops, no. But enemies tend to drop recipes at their level. A level 49 enemy will more likely drop a level 49 recipe. Putting the enemy level higher removes the risk of getting a recipe below level 50 (as my understanding, but I could be wrong).

It doesn't change the chance of salvage or incarnate material.

[tidge]

I have gotten Very Rare (lvl 50) drops while facing sub-50 level enemies with a sub-50 level character that didn't have the con difficulty turned up, but did have the spawn size turned up. I think the lowest level I had this happen with was a level 48, so there shouldn't have been any +2 enemies in the mission. I was extremely disappointed I couldn't slot the crafted drop right away!

 

EDIT: I generally don't care about the level of recipe drops. Even PVPs can go onto the market and be pooled.

Edited June 14, 2020 by tidge

[ScrewlooseCohh]

13 hours ago, drdread said:

 Shifting to +4/8 gives a better chance for drops, but loot is not always the end goal.

I am not sure this is true,

If a critter can drop an item then the level the critter is doesn't influence the chance to that is will drop something.  A higher level critter will drop higher level Enhancements and recipes and different salvage, but that is about it.

As long as the critters are above level 50 they will drop Purple recipes and Enhancement Catalysts.  A 54 critter doesn't drop those more often than a 50 critter.

And you will chew through level 50 critters faster so your drops per minute will be greater.

regards, Screwloose.

"I am not young enough to know everything."

[roleki]

2 minutes ago, drdread said:

Chance of drops, no. But enemies tend to drop recipes at their level. A level 49 enemy will more likely drop a level 49 recipe. Putting the enemy level higher removes the risk of getting a recipe below level 50 (as my understanding, but I could be wrong).

It doesn't change the chance of salvage or incarnate material.

That's why, if you're in it for drops, 2/8 is the way to go.  Say it takes 10 minutes to clear a 4/8 map, but only 8 minutes to clear a 2/8.  Over the course of an hour you get an extra map-and-a-half of mobs to burn through, which brings the total XP earned close-ish to what you could have generated had you run 4/8, but you get 25% more random drop chances.

[ScrewlooseCohh]

4 minutes ago, roleki said:

That's why, if you're in it for drops, 2/8 is the way to go.  Say it takes 10 minutes to clear a 4/8 map, but only 8 minutes to clear a 2/8.  Over the course of an hour you get an extra map-and-a-half of mobs to burn through, which brings the total XP earned close-ish to what you could have generated had you run 4/8, but you get 25% more random drop chances.

Absolutely.

I would say that +3 is likely to be a bit faster Exp than +4 on a per minute basis.

On a per mission basis +4 will be the highest Exp, but if the missions take a long time then on a per minute basis they may be less.

But making that kind of adjustment on the fly for different team configurations is not something many people are going to be comfortable with.

regards, Screwloose.

"I am not young enough to know everything."

[Sovera]

On 6/13/2020 at 4:47 AM, JnEricsonx said:

I gotta say, when you have a team that out of the 8, MAYBE half of it tops is 50, and the rest could be anywhere down to the teens, and you decide running 4/8 is a good idea....really?  Sometimes it can work, but that can be because the 50s and anyone close to that is pretty tough but, otherwise, it's not gonna help the others, their acc will be in the dirt, damage likewise, so on and so forth.  Speaking for myself, when I run a 50 team, I ask at least for people be 40+.  I start it off at 2/8, and if it goes well, go from there.   Otherwise, you have teams who keep wiping on near every other mob.

 

Why should the level 50s lose out because under level 50s joined? They could just as easily have made a team for their own level but prefered to join a level 50 team so those could pew pew for them.

 

Lets be honest here that under 50s joining 50 teams are not there to do pew pew but to collect XP. I hate it but I force myself to do it once in a while. There is nothing more miserable than to be using my strongest attack and see it plink for 40 damage against a +5.

 

[Jeneki]

This topic has been around since the days of "Why does everyone seem to run invincible or nothing?"

[Coyote]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

Lets be honest here that under 50s joining 50 teams are not there to do pew pew but to collect XP.

 

That's true for DPS characters. Debuffers also are hurt, but in practice even a weaker Freezing Rain is still good for a team. However, buffing powersets do fine when exemplared up as their main contributing is to improve the effectiveness of the other characters. For example, Transfusion may not be very reliable against +5s, but Fulcrum Shift is still likely to cap the team's damage. Fortitude and Adrenaline Boost still work just as well. I can really see buffing powersets with low damage piggybacking effectively on higher level teams... it's the damage-oriented characters who really don't contribute much.

[killigraphy]

I can tell you right now, in AE, everyone is 50(+3), its not that hard to get, run BAF's and you should be good.

 

However, a lot of the time, people are just running TF's and only need alpha slotted (Tin), plenty people carried me after 50, I made it quite apparent that I'm not killing anything that's 54++, and the team leader was okay. This of course was very situational, and hasn't happened since.

[golstat2003]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:47 PM, JnEricsonx said:

I gotta say, when you have a team that out of the 8, MAYBE half of it tops is 50, and the rest could be anywhere down to the teens, and you decide running 4/8 is a good idea....really?  Sometimes it can work, but that can be because the 50s and anyone close to that is pretty tough but, otherwise, it's not gonna help the others, their acc will be in the dirt, damage likewise, so on and so forth.  Speaking for myself, when I run a 50 team, I ask at least for people be 40+.  I start it off at 2/8, and if it goes well, go from there.   Otherwise, you have teams who keep wiping on near every other mob.

Form your own teams?

[Crysis]

Maximum reward for maximum effort.  Anything else is just not acceptable.