Weekly Discussion 55: Power Pools!

[Redlynne]

On 6/14/2020 at 4:25 PM, Bopper said:

Request #1) Increase minimum number of Pool Powers to 5, or have the Origin Pools not count as a Power Pool in the limit of 4 pool powers.

This already happened when the Fitness pool was deprecated to be made Inherent to all Archetypes so you didn't need to waste 3 power picks on powers that EVERYONE needed to take (swift/hurdle, health and stamina).

 

Your Level 1 power pick must be from your primary powerset and your Level 2 power pick can be from either your primary or secondary powerset.

That leaves you with 22 power picks remaining at Levels 4+.

When power pools contain 5 powers per pool, you can take 4 pools plus 1 epic/patron pool and have a total of 25 powers to choose from to fill 22 power picks with ... having taking only 3 powers from your primary/secondary powersets.

 

Expanding the "reach" of pools to 5 pools plus epic per build is not warranted.

 

The only modification along these lines that I personally would be willing to tolerate would be shifting the Origin pools into the epic/patron bucket (so Origin OR Epic/Patron, but you can't have both) with the only distinction being that the Origin pools are available at Level 4+ while the Epic/Patron pools are available at Level 35+.  That way you could have 4 common pools plus an Origin pool OR an Epic/Patron pool ... but you wouldn't be able to have 5 common pools plus an Epic/Patron pool on top of that.

 

Fortunately, I sincerely doubt that such a shift in the permission structure of pools is in the offing, so I honestly can't imagine that such an option would be implemented.

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

This already happened

Thanks for the quote. I didnt realize I poorly worded my request. I'll update my OP.

 

Edit: OK, it's corrected. I didn't realize I said minimum (when I meant maximum, yikes) and I said Powers when I meant the Powersets (double yikes). Thanks for the heads up.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Bopper

[Mouse Of War]

Instead of multiple pools, lets just have 1 huge Pool.

Some powers duplicated to give themes like a Magic Aid Other.

Level limits for some of the overpowered ones.

 

 

OR

 

 

Personally, I think that the pools need to be redone from the ground up.  They should have at least 2 group friendly powers, 2 self boosts, and a situational power.

There should be a defensive power, offensive power, and a utility.  

 

I think that Experimentation is fairly balanced and useful.  Boost a teammate, poison enemy, fast travel, AOE Attack, and a Self Boost.  Shame it doesnt get used more.

 

Medicine should have a Team Heal Field, a short range Stun, a Heal, a Self Heal, and Rez.

Willpower should have a Self and Group Resist Fear/Confuse, a taunt, a Fear, and passive Team To Hit bonus.

 

I know that I would not look forward to trying to balance it...

 

 

[killigraphy]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:30 AM, Troo said:

Rubbish

 

Other items:

• Aid self is really sloooow.
• I totally use stealth pre 50. I don't love having to take another power to get phase shift but it is what it is.
• I'm not in favor of giving access to an additional pool in a build. Trade offs are part of the game.
• New pools would be interesting.
• Should we be able to create builds that rely heavily of the pool powers?

 

If you think punch and kick are worth it standalone....you're thinking is rubbish. Find me a build that incorporates them to any noticeable degree (besides mule-ing).

[Sir Myshkin]

33 minutes ago, killigraphy said:

If you think punch and kick are worth it standalone....you're thinking is rubbish. Find me a build that incorporates them to any noticeable degree (besides mule-ing).

The MAN:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Traps
Secondary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Caltrops -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), JvlVll-Dam%(31), PstBls-Dam%(31)
Level 1: Burst -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(29)
Level 2: Triage Beacon -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal(37), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Boxing -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(7), TchofDth-Dam%(7), GldStr-%Dam(9)
Level 6: Kick -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Hct-Acc/Rchg(11), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Hct-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(23)
Level 8: Acid Mortar -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Apc-Dam%(40), TchofLadG-%Dam(40)
Level 10: M30 Grenade -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(37), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(43), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 12: Force Field Generator -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(13), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42)
Level 14: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(15), HO:Ribo(34)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Cross Punch -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Arm-Dam%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(23)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(25), GldNet-Dam%(25), NrnSht-Dam%(27), Lck-%Hold(27)
Level 22: Aid Other -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43)
Level 26: Field Medic -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Weaken Resolve -- ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(33), ShlBrk-%Dam(33), CldSns-%Dam(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Full Auto -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), JvlVll-Dam%(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 41: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 44: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Mighty Leap -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(29), PrfShf-End%(31)
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon
------------

 

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[killigraphy]

30 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The MAN:

  Hide contents

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Traps
Secondary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Caltrops -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), JvlVll-Dam%(31), PstBls-Dam%(31)
Level 1: Burst -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(29)
Level 2: Triage Beacon -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal(37), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Boxing -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(7), TchofDth-Dam%(7), GldStr-%Dam(9)
Level 6: Kick -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Hct-Acc/Rchg(11), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Hct-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(23)
Level 8: Acid Mortar -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Apc-Dam%(40), TchofLadG-%Dam(40)
Level 10: M30 Grenade -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(37), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(43), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 12: Force Field Generator -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(13), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42)
Level 14: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(15), HO:Ribo(34)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Cross Punch -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Arm-Dam%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(23)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(25), GldNet-Dam%(25), NrnSht-Dam%(27), Lck-%Hold(27)
Level 22: Aid Other -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43)
Level 26: Field Medic -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Weaken Resolve -- ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(33), ShlBrk-%Dam(33), CldSns-%Dam(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Full Auto -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), JvlVll-Dam%(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 41: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 44: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Mighty Leap -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(29), PrfShf-End%(31)
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon
------------

 

 

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Read my post again carefully...not used for mule-ing powers....for example. Hasten is good just with so/regular IO's. Its simply useful by output/design. As is Hover. By THEMSELVES, these power shine, Punch and Kick do not. Ignore crazy IO's for a  second, and the fact that you're only using them to mule.

[Peacemoon]

6 hours ago, killigraphy said:

 

Read my post again carefully...not used for mule-ing powers....for example. Hasten is good just with so/regular IO's. Its simply useful by output/design. As is Hover. By THEMSELVES, these power shine, Punch and Kick do not. Ignore crazy IO's for a  second, and the fact that you're only using them to mule.

I mentioned earlier in the thread but the whole concept of power pool attacks needs to be rethought. Either they should do respectable damage or offer some other perks.

Boxing and Kick do at least increase the damage of Cross Punch, but how many would take them if they weren’t required to gain access to the good stuff?
 

With so many fun powers in the game, I always consider it tragic when people have to choose a bad power to get to a good one. It’s very bad for the player experience. 
If Tough/Weave as innate would be overpowered (I would make them passives if baseline not toggles), than perhaps we can at least be able to access Tough, and then Weave, without having to take Boxing or Kick.

 

 

Going back to Power Pool Attacks, let’s compare their damage on a Defender with the T2 energy blast attack, available from a Defender’s secondary at level 2. (Values taken from Mids).

 

Power Blast: 59.28 damage. 8s recharge. 80 range.

 

Boxing: 23.25 damage. 2.5s recharge. Melee.

Kick: 25.69 damage. 3s recharge. Melee.

Cross Punch 38.84 damage. 8s recharge. Melee Cone. [Requires 2 powers to select]

Special - each power gives +15% damage to the other two in the set. 
 

Air Superiority: 30.59 damage. 4s recharge. Melee. 100% knockup chance.

 

Project Will: 46.12 damage. 5s recharge. 80 range. 25% knockdown chance.
Wall of Force: 25.64 damage. 10s recharge. 40 range cone. 33% knockdown chance. [Requires 2 powers to unlock] 

 

Jump Kick: 30.59 damage. 2.8s recharge. Melee. 20% knockup chance.

Spring Attack: [No numbers on damage]. 2min recharge. 60 ranged teleport. 66% knockdown chance. [Requires 2 powers to unlock]
 

Arcane Bolt: 53.5 damage. 7s recharge. 80 range. 25% knockback chance.

 

Flurry: 34.99 damage. 3s recharge. Melee. 20%  MAG2 stun.

 

Toxic Dart: 46.99 damage. 6s recharge. 80 range. 
Corrosice Vial: According to the forum (and in-game experience) this power is bugged and not doing hardly any damage. [Requires 2 powers to unlock].

So from these numbers, I think the problem and the answers are staring us in the face. Every AT, with maybe the exception of some Controllers and MMs, have better attacks in their primary and secondary.

 

Power Pool attacks are not required as part of a good attack chain, and rarely provide any other advantage (air superiority’s guaranteed knockup being one of the only ones). As such, I think the consensus is to avoid them wherever possible as they serve no real purpose. 

 

Two solution paths I see:

1. Simply make them proper attacks. Up their damage so they are at least comparable to a T2 blast, and up their recharge as they don’t need 2/3/4s recharges. No one should be using a single power pool attack that frequently! (Exception to Boxing and Kick potentially...) Even at these numbers there is the added disadvantage of requiring melee range for the majority of attacks, where that is not preferable for a lot of ATs.
2. Or, have the power pool attacks give themed buff for 10 seconds based on the the pool they come from. This would also mean upping the recharge as above. Examples:

Flurry increases movement speed, and recharge for 10 seconds.

Jump Kick increases jump height and speed and recharge. 

Air Superiority increases flight speed and defence.

Values don’t need to be too high. Like 10% recharge and 2% defence. Anyway specifics could be thought up by people.. this is just a starting idea.

 

Hope this helps illustrate why at least numerically speaking, power pool attacks are in a bad place (generally speaking).

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Peacemoon

[Nightmarer 2]

22 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

Quote

 

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with but, besides that, there's the issue of the Pools pretty much nobody uses and have no atatcks, such as Presence (despite whatever it is Synapse did with it) and the Pools that some people choose just as mules or because they have no other choice such as Medicine or Concealment which I think should also be addressed if not totally re-done.

[Peacemoon]

5 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

I wholeheartedly agree with but, besides that, there's the issue of the Pools pretty much nobody uses and have no atatcks, such as Presence (despite whatever it is Synapse did with it) and the Pools that some people choose just as mules or because they have no other choice such as Medicine or Concealment which I think should also be addressed if not totally re-done.

Oh of course, just trying to unpick the problems and group them up together in common ‘themes’.

 

Presence, Concealment and Medicine have a different set of problems. I posted some ideas about Concealment on page 2, but I’m not sure about Presence or Medicine.

Medicine’s Aid Self is problematic because if it were too good everyone would take it as a no brainier. And there are PvP concerns too. I’m not sure where the sweet spot for Aid Self would be. You could take it off the interrupt but give it a 30 second cooldown which can’t be reduced. You could make it +regen rather than +heal in PvP. You could make it a 10 second heal over time rather than one big heal to again make it useful but less instantly powerful.

A combination of the above? There is a reason why Aid Self is so hard to balance but some of the above suggestions could put it in that sweet spot where it is useful but not overpowered.

[Chance Jackson]

Allow alternate Animation for Fighting > Kick like Thunder Kick, Crane Kick, Jump Kick, Rib Cracker, Shin Breaker & Air Superiority(Even if that's not a kick)

 

Beef up Leaping > Jump Kick to make it worth taking for more than just it's unique animation

Edited June 16, 2020 by Chance Jackson

[kosten07]

Small quality of life changes for me would be adding more animations. 

 

I love that Tough has the Flex choice so I don't have to beat my chest. =)

 

Thinking outside of the box I would ideally like to see Power Pools be removed from themes and changed to what your trying to accomplish to shore up weaknesses or just because of flavor/RP.

 

For example, a AE power pool or a ranged attack power pool.  From there we could pick powers that thematically go with our characters.  Maybe something like my Stalker decides to grab a ranged attack from the "ranged attack power pool" that has an animation of throwing a knife (maybe the animation from Science Origin Taser).  Boom now I have a decent ranged attack that fits within the flavor of my Stalker.

 

 

 

 

[Arnabas]

For me, I would just like to see all pools be equally useful. There are some that are fantastic, and some that I almost cry over because they are perfect for my concept, but practically useless.

 

I would also love to be able to customize things more. For example, even if it made no change to the actual stats of the power, I would love to change to animation of Boxing and kick to look like sword strikes so that my AR/ Ninja Blaster would have multiple "sword" attacks. Again-- I don't care about the numbers or damage type, just let it look like I am swinging my sword.

 

I think it could also be cool to let players pick pool powers in any order, without prerequisites, but balance it by making them more effective if they do choose the lower level powers, much the way Cross Punch has synergy with Boxing and Kick. That way you can get what you want, but investing more into it makes it better.

 

Those are my major wishes for power pools. I can live with almost everything else.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Arnabas

[Giovanni Valia]

Like a few others have mentioned here, most of the pool powers are either VERY useful (Hasten, Tough, Weave), or are seldom selected since they require investing more heavily in the pool.

It really is a shame that the player has to decide between choosing powers for their usefulness vs. choosing for thematic. Thinking of Munitions Mastery; LRM Rocket, Force of Will pool, etc. If some of the pool powers were looked at for increasing their abilities, or at least removing the restrictions for the T5 powers.

In particular, I would like to see the (you must have choose 2 powers in the pool) restriction removed.

[gromartwo]

First of all your link above is out of date. It still lists stimulant of medicine among others.

Better lists:

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Pool

https://web.archive.org/web/20140625171903/http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/

 

Power Pools. I don’t pvp.

 

Concealment – Stealth is the only power I use. It’s great for low END using types and others who need stealth early (eg; superjumpers). I prefer using stealth procs if possible. Stealth is good for being a mule for procs.

 

Fighting – all of the powers are useful and I use them to flesh out weak points in various builds.

 

Flight – Hover. Fly, and Air Superiority are great powers. I have never used Group Fly. Afterburner – is a bit meh. I tried it on one character and it’s okay as an emergency defence boost and the control is great but over all it feels it takes too long to get for the benefits it provides.

 

Leadership – I have tried Maneuvers but respecced out of it as the END use was too high for the defence benefits I got. This was on a Blaster on live. Unless you play a Defender or team a lot Maneuvers seems a weak pick. I used Assault on Controllers and it was a help but it’s not one my of “must have” powers.

 

Leaping- Combat Jumping and Super Jump are great powers and I have them on several characters. Spring Attack is fun and can be useful on some characters. Acrobatics is situational but can help some builds. Jump Kick is a bit of a joke and I have only used it on clown themed toons. If it had the spinning jump and kick animation from Martial Arts it might be useful.

 

Medicine- There are some good powers here. I tend to go: Aid Other>Aid Self> (if needed for END recovery) Field Medic. I have tried Injection but it is not as useful as Aid Other.

 

Presence- I have experimented a lot with this pool and like it. I haven’t tried Provoke yet but the other powers are useful for a variety of character types. The fears and Pacify can help keep enemies away and Unrelenting is amazing for keeping you alive or bringing you back after defeat.

 

Speed – I only tend to use Hasten or Superspeed. They are good powers. Flurry is okay but the longish animation is a pain. Plus powers like Air Superiority and Sands of Mu outshine it. I have tried Burnout on the test server but found it’s benefits lacking vs END cost. It would be nice if it affected pool powers too. Whirlwind is another joke power that might be best fixed by turning it into a click knockdown power with a reasonable recharge.

 

Teleportation- Recall Friend is very useful if you are teaming, Teleport Foe is useful in some situations. Teleport is a click heavy pain that could use some love. Change it to a toggle with a static hover ability so the user doesn’t fall out of the sky. Long Range Teleport is useful but a pain to get. It would be nicer if you could tp to hazard zones.

 

Sorcery- All of the powers are good and can be useful Arcane Bolt seems a bit slow on some builds but the damage is good. Rune Of Protection is a great power that can help characters stay alive – especially those classes without armour.

 

Force of Will – the powers are useful but seem clunky compared to Sorcery. The animation of Project Will seems slow. Mighty Leap/Stomp feels awkward. The two powers seem like they don’t belong together. Perhaps a power that gives a slight speed or jump boost would be better. Unleash Potential is a great power and the “crash” isn’t noticeable.

 

Experimentation- I have only tried Speed Of Sound/Jaunt and found it okay so far. If people don’t plan of going on in the pool they should decide on whether they want a stealth (Superspeed) or a teleport (Speed Of Sound) secondary effect and pick the power that best fits their goals.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by gromartwo

[Nightmarer 2]

Also, there should be probably a review of the power pools that are a "must" on pretty much every char. Ages ago, Castle nerfed Acrobatics (and it was the right thing to do) because Pool powers should not be better than powers from the chosen powerset (and mag 100 KB prot was silly) but he pretty much stopped there reviewing Pool Powers and, although Synapse also did something later on due for i24, he never addressed the "must haves" such as Hasten, which I personally think is main cause of imbalance in the game but that's just me, that is a must have in pretty much 99% of the builds. Of course, Hasten itself would deserve a more thorough approach since the ramifications of balancing / tweaking / reviewing / nerfing / call it what you want it are much wider and could have heavy impact in other areas, such as Dominators and permadom.

 

I personally hate being "forced" to take Hasten in every Dominator I roll to get permadom and I know it has no easy solution, still, since Power Pools are going to be discussed, I thought I'd bring the subject of Hasten up, that's all.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Nightmarer
Typo, typos everywhere

[Force Redux]

Quick rundown on some of  the changes I would implement. These are not complete, nor exhaustive. Most of my proposed changes are not radical, aiming for modest tweaks that are geared for QoL and/or making the powers a bit more attractive. 

 

MEDICINE POOL

Alternate animations for either magical runes and/or self-empowerment (such as regen/willpower). Right now the tricorder appearance is ruined for any of my magical characters.

Aid Other - Reduce cast time by 0.5 seconds to 2.43 seconds, improve the range to 40'. 

Aid Self - Reduce cast time by 0.5 second to 2.83 seconds. 

Injection - Reduce End cost from 13 to 10. Reduce cast time by 1 second from 2.93 to 1.93. 

Resuscitate - Reduce cast time by 3.0 seconds to 4.33 seconds. Improve the range to 40'.

Field Medic - Make this a passive power. Removes interrupt from Aid Other and Aid Self. Keep the 25% Endurance Recovery to Aid Self. Add 25% Endurance heal to Resuscitate. Reviving without Endurance is nearly worthless. Keep the 25% healing debuff resistance. 

 

FLIGHT POOL

Air Superiority - actually a fairly decent power pool attack, but could use a small bump in damage. Its about 31 on controllers and 62 on scrappers. So perhaps 10% boost.

Hover - for the Endurance cost of 0.2 vs Combat Jumping's 0.07 (thus, three times more expensive), it should have a slight boost to base speed. Otherwise, I consider this power to be a baseline good power for what it does. Some small defense, plus the number one combat mobility power. 

Flight - the safest travel power. Improve its base speed, so as one person suggested, +flight enhancers placed in it actually can do something. 

Group Fly - right now, I only find utility for this with my Masterminds, as some maps are terrible for pet AI and pathing (layer cake room, some large Oranbega rooms, anything with a lot of Z axis). To prevent minion aggro, I need them to fly. This is another tax on Masterminds, really. This power should have the following effect:

• Inherit Flight: pets of any sort (minions, controller pets, patron pets, incarnate pets) inherit any Hover or Flight speed (no defense) that the owner has. Same speed. Thus, pets can follow the owner without issues or lagging behind. Same as when they run. 

I can't recall outside of perhaps a Hamidon raid that ANYONE ever asked for Group Fly. This power needs to be useful for pet owners, not team mates. Perhaps Null the Gull could allow people to flag themselves as a 'pet' for purposes of receiving this buff. That way, you don't have to OPT OUT, you have to choose to OPT IN. Which is QoL for those who just don't want the buff. 

 

Afterburner - This should be a passive that buffs Flight (above). Reduce the Defense to 3.0% across all ATs, but now it is available at all times. No more only affect self. This also would make the -Fly resistance and additional air control available at all times (for those folks who did NOT take Hover, and perhaps went the Air Superiority/Flight route).  You are in pretty deep into the flight pool, so you would have some protection to keep it instead of being easily grounded. The power would lose the ability to be turned on in-combat, but would also gain a QoL that avoids one more button to toggle on/off. I can't count the number of times I've entered a mission and forgot to turn this off and buffed everyone, only to realize I only just buffed myself. 

 

LEADERSHIP POOL

All the toggles need their Endurance cost reduced to 0.23. They are great powers, but they are a bit END intensive. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Force Redux

[tidge]

6 minutes ago, gromartwo said:

Leadership – I have tried Maneuvers but respecced out of it as the END use was too high for the defence benefits I got. This was on a Blaster on live. Unless you play a Defender or team a lot Maneuvers seems a weak pick. I used Assault on Controllers and it was a help but it’s not one my of “must have” powers.

 

Just one small expansion on a well-written post: Homecoming Tankers now get Defender level buffs in the Leadership pool, so for both AT Maneuvers is an excellent single-power pick, especially for team-oriented tanks.

Edited June 16, 2020 by tidge

[Nightmarer 2]

7 minutes ago, gromartwo said:

 

Leadership – I have tried Maneuvers but respecced out of it as the END use was too high for the defence benefits I got. This was on a Blaster on live. Unless you play a Defender or team a lot Maneuvers seems a weak pick. I used Assault on Controllers and it was a help but it’s not one my of “must have” powers.

 

 

Leadership is a lot more than just Maneuvers, especially since the Focused Accuracy nerf Tactics is great power to have and so is Vengeance

[mechahamham]

5 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

I personally hate being "forced" to take Hasten in every Dominator I roll to get permadom and I know it has no easy solution, still, since Power Pools are going to be discussed, I thought I'd bring the subject of Hasten up, that's all.

Without in any way trying to lessen the contents of your post, I think you've hit upon a more fundamental issue here. Just about every dominator feels the need to try to perma domination. This tells me there's a more fundamental issue here than Hasten being a tool of choice or necessity to do so.

[gromartwo]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

Just one small expansion on a well-written post: Homecoming Tankers now get Defender level buffs in the Leadership pool, so Maneuvers is an excellent single-power pick, especially for team-oriented tanks.

I didn't know that. I will keep this in mind when leveling my tanks.

[Nightmarer 2]

1 minute ago, mechahamham said:

Without in any way trying to lessen the contents of your post, I think you've hit upon a more fundamental issue here. Just about every dominator feels the need to try to perma domination. This tells me there's a more fundamental issue here than Hasten being a tool of choice or necessity to do so.

You are very right but since the discussion is about Pool powers, I thought I'd bring just the Hasten part, but I totally agree with you. Thing is, even if Domination was changed and somehow not tied to recharge, most builds would still require Hasten or most likely perma-Hasten to be considered optimal.

[drbuzzard]

8 minutes ago, tidge said:

Just one small expansion on a well-written post: Homecoming Tankers now get Defender level buffs in the Leadership pool, so for both AT Maneuvers is an excellent single-power pick, especially for team-oriented tanks.

Actually they get controller level buffs from leadership.

[drbuzzard]

I think people do overstate the necessity of hasten. I have around half of my builds as melee ATs, and very few of them have perma hasten, as honestly it's of limited use on them when I really run the numbers. Now there are certainly builds that need it (or at least want it a lot), and I have it on those. The investment to get there is fairly intensive and can be exclusive of other goals.

[Troo]

 

With what you wrote, doesn't the math work out to Power Blast individually being less than each Boxing and Kick even without the +fighting synergy?

You posted damage and recharge. Power Blast 59.28/8s = 7.41 which is less than Boxing 23.25/2.5s = 9.3

3 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Power Blast: 59.28 damage. 8s recharge. 80 range.

 

Boxing: 23.25 damage. 2.5s recharge. Melee.

Kick: 25.69 damage. 3s recharge. Melee.

Cross Punch 38.84 damage. 8s recharge. Melee Cone. [Requires 2 powers to select]

Special - each power gives +15% damage to the other two in the set. 

Math..

 

Some ArcanaTime DPA / DPS / attack chain numbers would likely be more relevant to your point.

 

While Boxing, Kick and Brawl may not be as relevant to this incarnation of the game. There was a time when they were useful.. but I digress. 

 

I understand wanting M0R3! I just disagree that pool powers should exceed primary, secondary or epic powers.

 

There is a lot of nuance built into the game with implicit trade offs.

[Zeraphia]

I know this isn't ground-breaking or trying to totally reinvent all the power pool options from the ground up, but what I often feel makes me not take a power pool are these: 1. ridiculously length animation times 2. ridiculously lengthy recharge times. I find that in order to really get the "oomph" out of these power pools with ridiculous 600+ second recharge times, you probably will want Hasten. That's 2/4 power pools chosen already, extremely limiting for builders and other individuals who may even look into other sets. I haven't even taken the entire Force of Will power pool on any of my characters nor Presence nor Teleportation nor Flight nor Concealment. The only one who has taken Sorcery or Medicine has been my Fortunata, who can actually make use of these. I think maybe just making the powers themselves truly accessible, giving worthwhile self-buff powers early on in the pool instead of something weird would be a step in the right direction for making the later options more attractive!

Edited June 16, 2020 by Zeraphia