State of the Project - August 2020

[Ukase]

14 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

 It's not proof of progress in any way except to show that NCsoft is actually negotiating, but it is a promising sign

It's an indication of something, but it's certainly not proof of NCSoft negotiating. I don't know anymore that we need proof, although I don't see the harm in coverage of the process. To this point, as far as I can tell, HC has been transparent in every area, except this one - which is probably due to reasons I know next to nothing about. Still, what's the harm in saying, "We spoke to NCSoft Rep. Joe Blowhard, and he said, "Blah, blah" So, we have to do X and Y, then see where we're at." 

I just see no reason, other than an aversion to typing why we're not seeing it. Perhaps it's none of my business. I'd just like to know.

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

It's an indication of something, but it's certainly not proof of NCSoft negotiating. I don't know anymore that we need proof, although I don't see the harm in coverage of the process. To this point, as far as I can tell, HC has been transparent in every area, except this one - which is probably due to reasons I know next to nothing about. Still, what's the harm in saying, "We spoke to NCSoft Rep. Joe Blowhard, and he said, "Blah, blah" So, we have to do X and Y, then see where we're at." 

I just see no reason, other than an aversion to typing why we're not seeing it. Perhaps it's none of my business. I'd just like to know.

 

The reason is that the negotiations are under an NDA. They legally can't talk about it.

[Ura Hero]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

It's an indication of something, but it's certainly not proof of NCSoft negotiating. I don't know anymore that we need proof, although I don't see the harm in coverage of the process. To this point, as far as I can tell, HC has been transparent in every area, except this one - which is probably due to reasons I know next to nothing about. Still, what's the harm in saying, "We spoke to NCSoft Rep. Joe Blowhard, and he said, "Blah, blah" So, we have to do X and Y, then see where we're at." 

I just see no reason, other than an aversion to typing why we're not seeing it. Perhaps it's none of my business. I'd just like to know.

 

NDA's my friend. 

 

Having done a few negotiations over the years I can say that nearly every corporation requires an NDA before even beginning to talk.  If you blow the NDA, the talking ceases immediately and usually someone gets immediately reprimanded or fired for being an idiot.  That person is removed from the talks and if you are lucky you get to pick up close to where you left off, although with a severe disadvantage from that point forward.  Best thing during discussions such as this is to shut up while the instrumentalists play and don't try to sing a solo.

[Patti]

And as it's been said the ndas are never in the favour of the little guys.   They're there to protect the company, in this case ncsoft. 

[Ukase]

I think there's still room for some disclosure, but I haven't read the NDA, nor do I understand the reason behind having one for these "talks". For now, I'm just going to take the stance that it's none of my business. If it were, I wouldn't see the harm in saying "We met today for a few minutes and only have a few more obstacles to overcome" 

 

[Patti]

No one is saying ndas are rational.

[Bionic_Flea]

57 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I just see no reason, other than an aversion to typing why we're not seeing it

 

[FoulVileTerror]

Disclosure regarding the negotiations would be great, but I've been under a few N.D.A.s as well, so I have sympathy and understanding there.  It looks suspicious from the outside, but ncsoft isn't the only corporation (especially in the games industry) to pull stuff like this.  The servers are still up, and I know many players who haven't donated but are still yet able to continue to play, so the proof is in the pudding there.

 

Where I -don't- understand the communication blackout is in regard to the Homecoming roadmap and game design documents.  THAT stuff would benefit the whole community if it could be visible.  This isn't a for-profit venture; the excuse of keeping things under wraps to build hype is not the way toward a healthy and long-living community.

Yes, there will be people who are upset, even irrationally so if they see (or don't see) something on such a document which is a personal trigger for them.  But keeping it secret only -defers- that upset until it's released anyway.  The Dark Melee AoE changes didn't demonstrate the irrationality of some players so much as it demonstrated the importance of clear communication.  And it also demonstrated that as upset as some players were, their upset didn't really burn down the whole world.

The lesson I would like the Team to take home there is not to give up, but to try again with more structure and clearer lines of communication about the intent and expectations.

 

Open development with greater communication will lead to a stronger understanding of how the game works, its limitations, and how to work around those limitations for everyone.  Some people will learn more quickly than others, but collective efforts from those in positions of advantage can help others.  Ultimately leading to a net positive all around.

 

I think it's high time we treat the whole community as one large collective development team.

Decision-making is still handled by those in the appropriate positions.  I'm not sure how clearly this needs to be stressed, but:  This is NOT a call for democratic decision-making on design.

This is a call for expansion of scope to include much more of the valuable development resources in terms of knowledge, experience, and problem-solving available by the whole community.  We can get to critically analyze everything together and work toward widespread improvement.  The constant shots in the dark over on the Feedback and Suggestions board would truly benefit from a more clear vision of what's on the goalboard.

 

And worst case scenario with long-term open communication of this sort:  Some players realize that Homecoming isn't really for them sooner rather than later, and can move on to a server which might be more suited to their interests.  Again; we're not for-profit.  Let us PLEASE do away with business tactics instituted in this industry solely to fleece people of their money.

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Freaklympics_gold_medal

 

That makes sense to me.

It makes sense to me as well, but the Olympics are once every four years (except for this year 😞). I think it is the closest the community has come up with for #17. I'll add it to my list.

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

The reason is that the negotiations are under an NDA. They legally can't talk about it.

<engage pedant mode>

 

It's a contractual obligation rather than a legal one. Disclosure in this instance would not be a crime, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea!

 

<disengage pedant mode>

 

With that being said, you are still largely correct - we're not keeping this secret just 'cus.

 

And you are also correct in that generally avoiding crime is a good idea!

 

#notlegaladvice

[Lines]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

<engage pedant mode>

 

Boo!

[Patti]

Shouldn't the boo come after the disengagement part?

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, FoulVileTerror said:

<snip>

This was discussed quite a bit a few months ago. This covers it a bit too.

 

I'm not sure you've got the right picture of what's going on here. This isn't a big, organised development team - not yet anyway. It's a few crazy people doing stuff in their few spare hours, trying to make the most of very limited time and resources. Need to set your expectations accordingly.

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

I think there's still room for some disclosure, but I haven't read the NDA, nor do I understand the reason behind having one for these "talks". For now, I'm just going to take the stance that it's none of my business. If it were, I wouldn't see the harm in saying "We met today for a few minutes and only have a few more obstacles to overcome" 

 

So. NDA are airtight. This is a routine part of the operations of my current company and out department. Here's how it works...

 

You and all parties involved will not, under any circumstances, disclose the NDA, any items therein, any related material, any protected data, all results or outcomes or any related projects and programs. Any breech of the NDA immediately violates the agreement, carries near certain penalties with heavy financial reprocussions, sanctions and loss of licensure. Further, future ability to conduct any related business is nearly impossible.

 

It's no joke. All parties are heavily monitored, part of the NDA, and must report, under clauses, any attempts of anyone to seek information of said NDA.

 

Yeah.

Edited August 15, 2020 by SwitchFade

[Widower]

37 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

generally avoiding crime is a good idea!

We need to make someone say this in-game.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

<engage pedant mode>

 

It's a contractual obligation rather than a legal one. Disclosure in this instance would not be a crime, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea!

 

<disengage pedant mode>

But Jimmy, a contractual obligation IS a legal obligation . . .

 

*disengages lawyer pedant mode*

[ivanhedgehog]

On 8/13/2020 at 1:40 AM, hermeticus said:

Hey, HC people --

 

Would you please elaborate on the name change?  It would seem to imply that "Homecoming" is becoming a brand of some sort, with CoH being one of its projects, as opposed to being an issue of CoH, which may be the point.  Is it a brand thing, an NCSoft saying "don't present yourself as being the actual City of Heroes" thing, or something else?  It just sounds awkward to me, and not just because I'm used to it the other way around.

 

Thank you in advance!

I dont care if they call it "Fred the Wonder Girbil" as long as I get to play.

[Patti]

Ivan the hedgehog versus Fred the gerbil!  This night only!  Rodent deathmatch!

[BurtHutt]

Hey it's great to get an update and an idea of the state of the game. I totally get how this needs to be hush, hush and all but I still think it's good for the Dev team to say something. Thanks for that!

 

Nice teasers too. I was hoping the new Dev team would create something completely original but it looks like a mad scientist has pieced together existing factions into super Rikti/Freaks. Cool.... Anyway, there are some volunteers ready to jump in and join the team and I know some of them (including me) have new ideas. 🙂

 

Again, a big thanks to the Dev team for all you do.

[Solid Fury]

58 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

You and all parties involved will not, under any circumstances, disclose the NDA, any items therein, any related material, any protected data, all results or outcomes or any related projects and programs. Any breech of the NDA immediately violates the agreement, carries near certain penalties with heavy financial reprocussions, sanctions and loss of licensure. Further, future ability to conduct any related business is nearly impossible.

 

It's no joke. All parties are heavily monitored, part of the NDA, and must report, under clauses any attempts of anyone to seek information of did NDA.

The flip side of this is that if two parties are under an NDA, and one of them is carefully talking about little bits of information that would presumably be covered under that NDA, it's a good bet that the other party has specifically agreed to allow it - maybe even signed off on it in advance.

 

At least that's what it seems like, reading between the lines a little.

[Patti]

Sorry.

[kiramon]

21 minutes ago, Keovar said:

It's okay, I didn't think you have anything to do with real-world animal bloodsport.  I was just thinking how weird it is that Pocket D has a bloodsport arena, and on the hero side of the building!  I know the 'monkeys' there are alien, but still.    
When you think about it, Pokemon is kind of a crazy thing to pitch at kids too.  

I guess. It’s just bug catchers throwing their lightning bugs/fire flies at each other.

[Vhalidictes]

On 8/12/2020 at 5:02 PM, Rathulfr said:

The First Rule of NDA: You can't discuss the NDA.

Hmm, how to say this... I'm more worried that the NDA exists than any progress (or lack of it).

 

The new launcher looks nice, hopefully I won't need to find another community soon.

[GM Brax]

50 minutes ago, Vhalidictes said:

Hmm, how to say this... I'm more worried that the NDA exists than any progress (or lack of it).

 

The new launcher looks nice, hopefully I won't need to find another community soon.

There is no intrigue.  No drama, and other than the tantalizing possibilities presented by the successful conclusion of the talks, no real excitement to be had about the NDA.  It simply...is.  😎

[Lines]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:37 PM, Glacier Peak said:

The final hint: 

Finally, find Freedom at the annual game,
And claim the honor of gold medal fame.

 

19 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

I'll be honest, I just feel like my hint for 17 isn't beefy enough.

Summer Blockbuster?

 

Freedom, because the vault password is "The Price Of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"

Annual, because summertime. (at least it used to be)

Game, because Time Gladiator.

Beefy, because Minotaur dude.