Stone Armor still relevant?

[Papaschtroumpf]

So back in the day Stone Armor could be almost indestructible and that made it worth the movement drawback

But now that almost any set can be softcapped with IOs, etc... what does Stone Armor offer besides nostalgia?

My last 3 characters were superspeeders so I'm a bit in shock, I forgot how slow rooted made ya

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

My vote is no. There's no reason to run stone armor. It's still top dog on indestructibility, but the costs are just too high for my tastes. That said, I still have one, an MA/Granite brute just because kicking people in the face with granite/rooted is funny.

[Bopper]

I would think its more viable on a tank, only because of how much stronger Granite Armor is usimg Tank AT modifiers. The movement penalty isn't that bad, you can make good builds that have 30-40 mph of run speed in granite armor. It is rough not being able to jump, but you have the option to teleport and you have the option of switching out of granite armor in between battles. Hopefully someday Rooted will have its movement penalty removed

[Greentea]

Personally, I can't stand the drawbacks. Three abilities provided -Speed. -30% damage, and -65%[?] Recharge from Granite. Seriously?

30-40 mph may seems fine to you, but it's still slow. Your other teammates get ahead and tank for ya. Also, switching between granite and non granite is lame.

 

Unable to jump ruined the fun, I don't understand why can't we jump? I'm even more confused when the GMs all over PI, The Hive, and the Abyss can jump and normally run, but we, the players, can't? What? 

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not into teleporting, none of my characters have that. Also, I find it a bit silly that we have to waste slots for +run speed. I had Granite/Fire tank back on live. Nowadays? I'll pass.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Heliodorus

[Hyperstrike]

Basically, if you need a Tank that just stands there and eats punishment, old school, Stone is your Gold Standard.
But, the way the game plays TODAY, fast-moving and very mobile, there's maybe TWO situations where that's useful.  IN THE WHOLE GAME.

As such, Stone Armor is really due a balance pass.
 

[Sovera]

It's as Hyperstrike says. I recently played with a Stone Tanker. Good guy, solid build, he placed a metric ton of movement speed bonuses and could dash around in granite form.

 

But in the end my 'squishy' fire armor Tanker runs around like mad, doesn't die, and Hover + one of the jump packs is crazy fast in combat mobility.

[Brutal Justice]

On 8/15/2020 at 9:35 AM, Heliodorus said:

Unable to jump ruined the fun, I don't understand why can't we jump? I'm even more confused when the GMs all over PI, The Hive, and the Abyss can jump and normally run, but we, the players, can't? What? 

Run some of those RWZ missions where you rescue Faultline.  He actually changes into granite and can jump.  His jumping IS limited but he can jump none the less.  

[Haijinx]

The penalties of Granite are too high for an IO world.

 

At the very least the inability to make a simple hop is ridiculous. 

 

[modest]

When City of Heroes was first launched in 2004, server components were very fragile. The developers at Cryptic Studios were concerned that the weight of a single Stone Armor Tanker hopping might be sufficient to rattle a server's components loose and cause a complete server loss.

 

In the highly unlikely event that multiple Stone Armor Tankers existed on the same server, and two or more hopped at the same time, there existed the possibility of a chain reaction occurring that would lead to the destruction of the entire data center. Furthermore, this chain reaction had the potential to spread outward until it brought down the communications network of the entire western seaboard.

 

The developers chose to completely disable any vertical movement for Stone Armor characters to mitigate the extreme risks involved. It is possible that modern server components that are built with higher motion and rattle tolerances, combined with @Jimmy's patent pending bungee server dampening technology, could diminish the risk of Stone Armor hops to levels that the Homecoming team might find acceptable. Of course, extensive tests would need to be conducted, and strict server-side rules would need to be written to prevent consecutive hopping, coordinated hopping, or hop pop and locking.

Edited August 17, 2020 by modest
Citations added.

[Papaschtroumpf]

Makes perfect sense! That must also be why Teleport ends with a hover and float gently down.

I don't think we have the technology yet for full jumping dampening.

[Outrider_01]

Kinetic and speed boost, its like Indiana Jones and raiders of the lost ark.

[Papaschtroumpf]

With the rest of the team also speed boosted aren't you going to still lag behind?

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, Papaschtroumpf said:

With the rest of the team also speed boosted aren't you going to still lag behind?

No, the hardcap on speed will be the same for everybody. You will still not be able to jump, however.

 

Correction, I thought Speed Boost was stronger. You might still lag behind, but the extra 25 mph running will certainly help as others will likely hit their run speed cap while you will close the gap.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Bopper

[fitzsimmons]

Bopper helped me with my stone tank build a while ago.  He runs 39.x mph in granite with the base empowerment buff.  I don’t normally need or use rooted but I have it. It’s just plain fun to run enemies down. With a single SB it’s 60ish IIRC.

 

He’s softcapped to defenses and hard capped to resists.  PSI being the biggest hole.

 

I have a lot of alts but I play the granite every now and again.  Unless you’ve filled up all 1000 slots, why not make a granite?

 

Cross punch is a must have btw.  The old granite pimp slap.  I’ll post Bopper’s build that I’m using shortly.

 

Thread:

 

Regards,

Dave

Edited August 17, 2020 by fitzsimmons

[Hyperstrike]

On 8/17/2020 at 9:49 AM, Papaschtroumpf said:

With the rest of the team also speed boosted aren't you going to still lag behind?

That and the constant "SB pls!"

It's what put me off running kins for a while.

[Papaschtroumpf]

Back on Live my first character was a kin. I got invite to a lvl 50 team once and they went "what no SB?" and booted me.

I was a newbie and didn't see the point of SB, it didn't benefit me and I did half my work solo 🙂

ah good old times

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

Here's an example of what can be done with Stone


 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Plutonium: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(3), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(5), Rct-ResDam%:50(5)
Level 1: Contaminated Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(9)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- Ags-ResDam:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(11), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(13)
Level 4: Earth's Embrace -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg:50(A), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg:50(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(19)
Level 6: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 8: Mud Pots -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A)
Level 12: Rooted -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Brimstone Armor -- Ags-ResDam:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(25), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(25), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(27)
Level 16: Radiation Siphon -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(31)
Level 18: Crystal Armor -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(31), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33)
Level 20: Fusion -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(33)
Level 22: Tough -- Ags-ResDam:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(34), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(34)
Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 26: Minerals -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(36), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 28: Irradiated Ground -- Arm-Dmg:50(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), Arm-Dam%:50(40)
Level 30: Teleport -- Range-I:50(A)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(40), LucoftheG-Def:50(40), Ags-ResDam:50(42), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(42), Ags-Psi/Status:50(42)
Level 35: Devastating Blow -- Hct-Dmg:50(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(43), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Hct-Dam%:50(45)
Level 38: Atom Smasher -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 41: Char -- Apc-Dmg:50(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Apc-Dam%:50(48), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 47: Recall Friend -- IntRdx-I:50(A)
Level 49: Long Range Teleport -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(13), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod:50(A), PrfShf-End%:50(15)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|A3B23984FFDC95DEEA|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Hyperstrike

[Firephox]

On 8/15/2020 at 11:35 AM, Heliodorus said:

 I had Granite/Fire tank back on live. Nowadays? I'll pass.

 

Ditto.  He was my main back in the day.  Not rolling one now.

[Obus Form]

Depends on your goals:

- Stone Armor is good for tanking certain iTrial fights, costume flavouring (looks much better than cancer victim Bio Armor), and uniqueness (nobody rolls it now a days).

- Stone Armor is not good in general.  See below

 

Viable but not good:

Tanking level 54 content it is "viable" but because everyone at level 50 will be fully IOd and Incarnated, you will never need to actually "tank" something.  (Without Granite Armor) Rooted, which prevents you from moving, and Granite armor (making Roote obsolete given the content difficulty), which prevents you from running/jumping, is therefore highly disappointing given the fast clearing speed of level 54 groups.

 

Tanking Incarnate trials in Granite Armor is "viable" as long as you don't have to move and are not tanking Psy damage.  Therefore, the MoM trials is Granite Armor's achille's heel, and certain fights that require you to move (most of the Magisterium trial) are not ideal because Granite does not allow you to move fast enough.  You also don't want to de-toggle Granite Armour because, as an aggro holder, you will inadvertantly take damage and possibly die. 

 

As @Bopper mentioned, given the damage/recharge penalty of Granite Armor, Stone Armor is therefore best optimized on Tank archetypes specifically looking to "tank" only.  Since brutes are actually lesser-HP-Tanks-that-actually-do-damage, I would not roll Stone Armor on any brute.

 

Stone Armor is essentially non-viable given its penalties AND because virtually all other resist-based armor sets do NOT give damage/recharge/movement penalties of Granite Armor/Rooted, provide a similar good heal on the same or faster cooldown, AND have some good resists to the difficult-to-resist-types such as Psy and Toxic damage or other fringe benefits outside of "resist damage".

 

Conclusion:

Unless rolling for flavour, unicorn uniqueness, or style points, Stone Armor is very obsolete.

[qwerty1971]

Is there a stone armor guide out there that is updated? I have some questions regarding a Stone Armor/SS tank I have:

 

1- what powers/toggles still run or are active with Granite running? (Does granite shut off tough/weave/maneuvers?)

2- can you make a viable Stone tank by skipping Granite?

3- How important is mud pots and if you need it how do you slot it?

 

many thanks

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

Basically any travel toggles get shut off.
Leaping toggles (Combat Jumping, Super Jump) get turned off.
Flight toggles (Hover, Fly) get turned off.

Fighting toggles (Tough/Weave/etc) do not.
Leadership toggles (Assault/Maneuvers/etc) do not.

In Stone, Rock Armor, Crystal Armor, Minerals and Brimstone Armor get detoggled when Granite fires up.

Here's a Beefy Boulder for you to review:
 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Archie Bunker: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Stone Skin -- GldArm-ResDam:50(A), GldArm-End/Res:50(3), GldArm-Res/Rech/End:50(3), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(5), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(7)
Level 1: Jab -- GldStr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), GldStr-Dam/Rech:50(7), GldStr-Dam/End/Rech:50(9), GldStr-Acc/End/Rech:50(9), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(11)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(13), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg:50(13), Pnc-Heal:50(15), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(15)
Level 4: Haymaker -- GldStr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), GldStr-Dam/Rech:50(21), GldStr-Dam/End/Rech:50(23), GldStr-Acc/End/Rech:50(23), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(25), GldStr-%Dam:50(25)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg:50(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg:50(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), ScrDrv-Dam%:50(31)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(31), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg:50(33), Pnc-Heal:50(33)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(A), PrfZng-Dam%:50(33)
Level 12: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam:50(A), GldArm-End/Res:50(34), GldArm-Res/Rech/End:50(34), GldArm-RechRes:50(34), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(36)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(37)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Rct-ResDam%:50(39)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Dmg:50(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Hct-Dam%:50(40)
Level 22: Teleport -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(42)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(43), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(43), GldArm-End/Res:50(45), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 35: Hurl -- Apc-Dmg:50(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(46), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Apc-Dam%:50(48)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Arm-Dmg:50(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50), Arm-Dam%:50(50)
Level 41: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 44: Crystal Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 47: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 49: Brimstone Armor -- ImpArm-ResPsi:40(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A), Run-I:50(17)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(17), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(19)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(19), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
------------

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Hyperstrike

[Marshal_General]

You can make a pretty viable stone armor character without granite armor. You really need to optimize your IOs.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

You can make a pretty viable stone armor character without granite armor. You really need to optimize your IOs.

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

You can make a pretty viable stone armor character without granite armor. You really need to optimize your IOs.

Except for curbs when you've got rooted on. Loses all viability right there.

 

Stone is garbage. Is it the absolutely toughest possible set in the game? Hell yea! But you sacrifice SO much when you can make other sets sturdy ENOUGH without those sacrifices.

 

I say this with a stone/ma tank. Cuz rooted-granite feet to the face is funny. But it's not my goto character for anything other than a smirk.