What is the point of Scrappers????

[Mo'Fire]

For those who do not know, The Scrapper Class was nerfed a long time ago shortly after AE come out and before ATO sets come about.

 

What they did was change the ability to evade attacks from soft cap defences and cap resists and also a critical hit nerf.

 

When AE 1st hit live me and my pals was doing these fire farms everyone is doing now but with ONLY elites bosses with a Spines/Fire/Fire.

 

Now with soft cap defences and cap resists  the Scrapper class cannot do AE farms effectively.

 

Personally I want to play a Scrapper but every time I level 1 to 50 I slot it and play it for a day and unslot it because I have got in the back of my mind how good Scrappers used to be, and those IO's are better used in a Blaster Brute or Tank.

 

This show with the live class stats

 

 

[Without_Pause]

 

[InvaderStych]

[nihilii]

This is true. It's time we speak up on the issue. I haven't seen a critical in weeks. I haven't played a scrapper in weeks, mind you, but the nerfing NEEDS to stop.

[oldskool]

What is the point of Scrappers?  

 

Let's ask Conan...

 

[roleki]

Something something Blasters.  

[HoundsTooth]

I'm not interested in the meta game. As long as my toons can run the content I want to run, I don't care if someone can do it better. My Scrappers can take on most of the game, so I don't care if raw numbers put Brutes ahead of Scrappers.

 

 I don't like maintaining Fury. I like that I can put down CoH to take the dog out or talk with my fiancé, then jump right back in. Scrappers give me that, Brutes don't.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Mo'Fire said:

For those who do not know, The Scrapper Class was nerfed a long time ago shortly after AE come out and before ATO sets come about.

 

What they did was change the ability to evade attacks from soft cap defences and cap resists and also a critical hit nerf.

What in the heck are you talking about?

 

I'm pretty sure none of this is true, if I even understand what it actually means.

Evidence? 

[GastlyGibus]

The point of scrappers is the same as every other archetype: to have fun. If you aren't having fun, play a different archetype.

[Mr. Vee]

To kill stuff and chew bubblegum, but they sekretly nerfed bubblegum.

[Greentea]

Huh. I don't recall any nerfs to Scrappers after AE, but then again, that was a long time ago. 

 

Honestly, it's not fair to Scrappers while Brutes with high HP/90% resists and strong DPS, Stalkers got  best buffs back on retail and there's broken ATO, and Tankers with 90% resists and got target increased/aoe buffs. Scrappers? Lulz.

Scrappers only have one good thing going; Crits. That's it.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Heliodorus

[HelenCarnate]

4 hours ago, Mo'Fire said:

For those who do not know, The Scrapper Class was nerfed a long time ago shortly after AE come out and before ATO sets come about.

 

What they did was change the ability to evade attacks from soft cap defences and cap resists and also a critical hit nerf.

 

When AE 1st hit live me and my pals was doing these fire farms everyone is doing now but with ONLY elites bosses with a Spines/Fire/Fire.

 

Now with soft cap defences and cap resists  the Scrapper class cannot do AE farms effectively.

 

Personally I want to play a Scrapper but every time I level 1 to 50 I slot it and play it for a day and unslot it because I have got in the back of my mind how good Scrappers used to be, and those IO's are better used in a Blaster Brute or Tank.

 

This show with the live class stats

 

 

Not sure your memory is working correctly.  Nothing was changed with scrappers.  What changed was AE.  When it first came out you could have a group full of EBs with almost no attacks and get full XP for it.  That was nerfed to force you to mix up groups with Bosses, Lts and Minions if you wanted full XP and also required you to have mobs take more attacks.   If you didn't mix up the mobs or didn't make they difficult enough, then you would get reduced rewards.  This started in Issue 16.

 

Soft cap has always been the same.  Mobs have always had at least a 5% chance to hit.  The only change they made to scrappers that would affect what you are talking about is a change to Fiery Embrace back in issue 18. 

 

• Fiery Embrace power now adds bonus fire damage for all Melee Power Set attacks instead of being a normal damage Buff. All Melee Power Set attacks made for 20 seconds after activating Fiery Embrace will do bonus damage based on that attack's damage. This bonus damage IS affected by enhancements and outside buff/debuff effects. At low levels, this means Fiery Embrace will have lower impact than the old implementation, while at high levels or on teams with lots of +Damage effects, you will see increased damage output.
• Critical damage is not affected by the new Fiery Embrace

That change made FE even more useful at the damage cap (where many people tend to be when they are farming).  Scrappers were never that great at +4x8 fire farms simply because their cap to resists are at 75% instead of 90% compared to Brutes and Tanks.  Even at the soft cap you are going to get hit some but at the caps, the Scrapper will take 250% more damage on top of having lower HP.  Another reason they are not that great at farms is a lack of a taunt aura.  Without a taunt aura, mobs tend to run away from DoTs and from things they can't hit.  Because of this, /fire scrappers tend to have mobs running all over the place unless they have other means to lock them down. 

[Wavicle]

I mean really the point is to have a melee archetype that is neither a rogue nor a tank. I don’t think that’s too much to ask of a game this flexible.

[BrandX]

The only problem I see with Scrappers, is they need more Secondary Options!

[Krazie Ivan]

ok, which one of you forum-regulars keeps makin these accounts to troll us with nonsensical weirdness? lol

[MTeague]

21 minutes ago, Krazie Ivan said:

ok, which one of you forum-regulars keeps makin these accounts to troll us with nonsensical weirdness? lol

There have been kind of a lot of "first post ever but gonna seriously stir the pot!" posts lately.

Not it.

[Sovera]

This is some weird topic made out of statements of nonsensical fact.

 

The Scrapper VS Brute comes up every other week. If anything pity the poor Brutes who seem relegated to AE farms while if wanting melee damage a Scrapper is the choice.

[Mo'Fire]

5 hours ago, HelenCarnate said:

Not sure your memory is working correctly.  Nothing was changed with scrappers.  What changed was AE.  When it first came out you could have a group full of EBs with almost no attacks and get full XP for it.  That was nerfed to force you to mix up groups with Bosses, Lts and Minions if you wanted full XP and also required you to have mobs take more attacks.   If you didn't mix up the mobs or didn't make they difficult enough, then you would get reduced rewards.  This started in Issue 16.

 

Soft cap has always been the same.  Mobs have always had at least a 5% chance to hit.  The only change they made to scrappers that would affect what you are talking about is a change to Fiery Embrace back in issue 18. 

 

• Fiery Embrace power now adds bonus fire damage for all Melee Power Set attacks instead of being a normal damage Buff. All Melee Power Set attacks made for 20 seconds after activating Fiery Embrace will do bonus damage based on that attack's damage. This bonus damage IS affected by enhancements and outside buff/debuff effects. At low levels, this means Fiery Embrace will have lower impact than the old implementation, while at high levels or on teams with lots of +Damage effects, you will see increased damage output.
• Critical damage is not affected by the new Fiery Embrace

That change made FE even more useful at the damage cap (where many people tend to be when they are farming).  Scrappers were never that great at +4x8 fire farms simply because their cap to resists are at 75% instead of 90% compared to Brutes and Tanks.  Even at the soft cap you are going to get hit some but at the caps, the Scrapper will take 250% more damage on top of having lower HP.  Another reason they are not that great at farms is a lack of a taunt aura.  Without a taunt aura, mobs tend to run away from DoTs and from things they can't hit.  Because of this, /fire scrappers tend to have mobs running all over the place unless they have other means to lock them down. 

You are wrong............... I remember the change clear as day because we put some hours in on those Spines/Fire Scrappers for farming, and we wasn't farming the elite bosses that didn't attack because they was giving less XP than the attacking ones. The only thing that made Scrapper bad for farming back then was the no taunt in attacks and we had a few runners.

I was the one creating the farms at the time and was mid maxing and timing each type of farming character. and the Spines/Fire Scrapper was the best until they made those changes.

 

Those changes did happen 100% because its the only reason I ever took a long break from the game during live.

[Haijinx]

For melee damage  I think that

 

Stalkers and scrappers seem roughly equal now.  As long as you pick a reasonable AOE set stalker.

 

Brutes are a bit behind.  Pretty far behind if they aren't tanking to get fury up, and the team lacks +dmg buffs to get the brute rolling. 

 

Those cases where the brute gets buffed past a scrappers damage don't happen in most teams. 

[Wavicle]

47 minutes ago, Mo'Fire said:

You are wrong............... I remember the change clear as day because we put some hours in on those Spines/Fire Scrappers for farming, and we wasn't farming the elite bosses that didn't attack because they was giving less XP than the attacking ones. The only thing that made Scrapper bad for farming back then was the no taunt in attacks and we had a few runners.

I was the one creating the farms at the time and was mid maxing and timing each type of farming character. and the Spines/Fire Scrapper was the best until they made those changes.

 

Those changes did happen 100% because its the only reason I ever took a long break from the game during live.

No. You’re imagining things. Scrapper defense and resistance caps and critical chances haven’t changed since long before AE existed.

[Mo'Fire]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

No. You’re imagining things. Scrapper defense and resistance caps and critical chances haven’t changed since long before AE existed.

I am not saying the caps have changed, What I am saying is the ability to get the elude effect from soft cap defences and cap resists was changed.

Not the physical numbers you see 45% defence and the 75% resistance BUT the base values.

 

Only those that was pushing the Scrapper to its limits noticed those effects, and those who was playing Scrapper in team play casual wouldn't of noticed these effects as much.

These changed was not widely known and was not announced.

 

And for the critical hit changes they did happen after AE. I clearly remember reslotting my Spines/Fire to try out the sets when ATO's come to live.

[oldskool]

So to sum things up then we can say... 


K. 


There really isn't any more to discuss, end thread.  This will just turn into circular arguments over fantasy.  Let it die.  Let it die in fire because that's fitting. 

[HelenCarnate]

Feel free to link the patch notes that list the change. Because how you are explaining it makes no sense.  What elude effect? 

 

The patch notes from issue 9 until the doors were shut are still out there.

Edited September 1, 2020 by HelenCarnate

[Omega-202]

@Mo'Fire

The archived patch notes are here for your convenience:  

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Patch_Notes

Please point out where this nerf was.  I was there from beta to shutdown and I'm calling BS on your memory of some mystical nerf to "elude" or whatever you're calling it.  It didn't happen.  

[Krazie Ivan]

46 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

link the patch notes that list the change

 

27 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

patch notes are here for your convenience:  

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Patch_Notes

Please point out where this nerf was

@oldskool is right...

5 hours ago, Mo'Fire said:

These changed was not widely known and was not announced.

not gonna disprove an un-provable. 
/endthread.