Political discussion should be ban (Period)

[Lance_R_Violator]

Didn't I just see something about NO political talk on the Homecoming servers somewhere? If not I think it should be a rule.
- three strikes = muted for 24 hours
- If you get muted for 24 hours three more times (total of 4) = that is a ban for 6 months.
- Then if one does it again it's a perma-ban.

This is all cumulative, unless there is substantial time between offenses.
(Substantial time would be at the discretion of the GM's and up.)
 

I come to play CoX to get away from life's crap, not get another helping of it in game. Thank you for your time.
 

Sincerely & respectfully,



Charles R. Williamson Jr.
EW1(SW/MTS) USN(Ret.)

A.F. & A.M., L.M.I.P.
Warwick Lodge #336

aka
"Spectrum"

[Bopper]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/

[Dragon Crush]

(spoiler has political facts)

So I see controversial politics on there, meaning so saying X totally deserved Y would be against the rules, but stating that the

Spoiler

US president knowingly spread the virus to his own supporters after being diagnosed

  would be ok since it's just reporting facts? Or does controversial just mean someone doesn't like it in this case, because if that's the case, all aspects of reality and fantasy can fall under that banner.

 

Anyway, I'm strongly against any sort of strong arm approach, I say judge your audience, if your group wants to talk politics, it should be fine, ditto for talking about trains, porn, origami, music, religion, terrible music, or anything else that isn't explicitly illegal or done just to start fights .  At best, I can see asking people to take political debates in public chats to group or tells, but if 20 are participating happily, 1 is against and everyone else is just not paying attention I don't know what to say.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Dragon Crush

[krj12]

I think someone should just create a politics channel and keep that kind of discussion in there.  I agree with OP, I don't want to see it in either General, Broadcast, or Help channels.

 

[Dragon Crush]

I don't know about something as narrow as a politics channel, but could go with a general "off topic" type channel, even better if there would be options to either leave it permanently or a few hours at a time.

[battlewraith]

I doubt any of that would solve the problem. People simply can't keep their bias to themselves. In my experience on Homecoming, political bitchfests usually are the result of someone making a joke or observation that they simply think is reality. And of course they assume everyone agrees with them and what they said isn't political. People respond, it elevates, and then all the angry gatekeepers chime in and scold them about talking politics. 

 

You can always ignore someone that's pissing you off, but another weird quirk of this community is that there are people who reject this because they take it as an imposition. "I shouldn't have to do something because someone else is breaking the rules." So back to square one. Let's get more GM involvement because I don't want to have to handle it myself.

[Greycat]

As far as "general off topic type" channels, isn't this why General was created (and in my case, gets shoved out sight?) It's even in the name. No, we don't need a "politics" channel.

 

CoC has this -

Controversial and adult content, including:

• Sexual, provocative, pornographic, or adult content
• Violent content
• Controversial religious content
• Controversial political content
• Anything involving controversial real-world individuals or organisations
• Anything involving sensitive events, both current and historical

The example Dragon gave drops *solidly* in the last two, and flirts with the third, so... don't say it.

 

No, we don't need mods babysitting. Or we shouldn't.

[Andreah]

8 minutes ago, Greycat said:

No, we don't need mods babysitting. Or we shouldn't.

Agreed. But you know, people.

[Greycat]

3 minutes ago, Andreah said:

Agreed. But you know, people.

Yeah. Glad I'm not one.

 

😉

[Andreah]

I'm happy with the mods just exercising their judgment on this, and not having detailed hard and fast schedules of punishment. For the next month or two, it may be more difficult. But I appreciate the HC servers being a refuge from all that other stuff. There are innumerable other places to discuss those other topics.

[GM Aurarius]

It's always advisable to stay away from controversial and political topics pursuant to the Code of Conduct.

If there is a code of conduct violation please do not hesitate to report it.

We take each report seriously and investigate them as such. What punishment, if any, is meted out however will never be communicated.

[Alchemystic]

Also something I think is worth making note (mostly for roleplayers);

RL political issues or figures aren't parallel in the CoH universe.

[Dragon Crush]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

As far as "general off topic type" channels, isn't this why General was created (and in my case, gets shoved out sight?) It's even in the name. No, we don't need a "politics" channel.

 

CoC has this -

Controversial and adult content, including:

• Sexual, provocative, pornographic, or adult content
• Violent content
• Controversial religious content
• Controversial political content
• Anything involving controversial real-world individuals or organisations
• Anything involving sensitive events, both current and historical

The example Dragon gave drops *solidly* in the last two, and flirts with the third, so... don't say it.

 

No, we don't need mods babysitting. Or we shouldn't.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult but I did give my example because I really don't see it as being controversial, I see it as straight news, but did spoiler it since it did have to do with politics and OP is saying they don't want to read politics. 

As I also said, if controversial is simply "it offends some people" I worry that can include anything real or fictional.  Suppose  just need to try to play it by ear and hope mods give ample warning  if someone toes the line.

[Greycat]

Well, no. Straight news would be "Hey, they just reported the president tested positive for cornoavirus."

Though, given the situation in the US, even *that's* going to get ugly with the followup comments - just look around and you'll see conspiracy theories and ... let's just say fairly negative comments about it and him. Even "just news" can light the fuse on a powderkeg.

 

Honestly, the way you worded the example starts leaning on being partisan (not saying if it is or not) and I could see arguments starting just on that sentence. But even *my* example... like I said, current events and persons tend to cause *strong* feelings and lead to arguments, in those cases. (versus, say, "Chevy showed off a new Camaro.")

 

Boils down to "just use common sense," I suppose.

[FoulVileTerror]

Um, @GM Aurarius?

Might I recommend a slight clarification to "What punishment, if any, is meted out however will never be communicated."

Perhaps "publicized" instead of "communicated?"  After all, I believe the GMs do take their time to communicate with the offending party, in an effort to reduce repeat offenses.  It's just that those punishments aren't revealed to anyone except those who said punitive measures are being applied to.

[Greycat]

Nope. If you're the offender, you don't find out until the slime suddenly erupts around you. *nods*

 

🙂

[Andreah]

50 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Also something I think is worth making note (mostly for roleplayers);

RL political issues or figures aren't parallel in the CoH universe.

I completely agree. In my roleplay, history would have diverged a long time ago, before the twentieth century, and even if things were somewhat in parallel, all the details, names, personalities, etc., would be different. My characters don't even recognize most pop-culture references.

[Zeraphia]

Given the hyper-partisan climate, virtually *everything* is on the table now to be considered controversial, even things that I didn't think were remotely contested seem in 2020 to be highly divisive. Scientific facts, religion, even k-pop fandoms seem to be all the rage to dissect people into "left-wing" and "right-wing" categories. It's rather unfortunate that this has become a reality and I hope the understanding that we are all humans, we all bleed red, and we are all related to one another prevails in the end. I recommend avoiding obvious hot-button topics and not engaging with "political trolling" as I'm sure has been evidence vicariously in the Global channel and reporting those who impose derogatory and extremist views on others.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Hyperstrike]

15 hours ago, Lance_R_Violator said:

Didn't I just see something about NO political talk on the Homecoming servers somewhere? If not I think it should be a rule.
- three strikes = muted for 24 hours
- If you get muted for 24 hours three more times (total of 4) = that is a ban for 6 months.
- Then if one does it again it's a perma-ban.

This is all cumulative, unless there is substantial time between offenses.
(Substantial time would be at the discretion of the GM's and up.)
 

I come to play CoX to get away from life's crap, not get another helping of it in game. Thank you for your time.
 

Sincerely & respectfully,



Charles R. Williamson Jr.
EW1(SW/MTS) USN(Ret.)

A.F. & A.M., L.M.I.P.
Warwick Lodge #336

aka
"Spectrum"

One really nasty problem with your suggestion?

You post here, is, in and of itself, a political discussion...

Ready to take your own medicine?

[Hyperstrike]

10 hours ago, Andreah said:

Agreed. But you know, people.

Yeah.  But I'm NOT "people".

And I resent being treated in a cookie cutter fashion because someone else has no self control.

 

[Zepp]

I saw a character named "Ronald Reagan" on a server playing heroside

Spoiler

(I assume for the irony)

, is that in and of itself a violation of this policy? Not only is that a controversial political figure

Spoiler

(attacked unions for lawful assembly, and almost impeached over his illegal actions in the Iran Contra hearing)

but also because of association with current events

Spoiler

(a racist d-list celebrity with age-related mental infirmity mishandling a pandemic response resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans)

.

 

In other words, to what extent is this policy enforceable?

Spoiler

(Is statement of military rank a violation? How about talking about one's religious affiliation with a secretive religious groups such as the Freemasons?)

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Zepp

[Leogunner]

19 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I saw a character named "Ronald Reagan" on a server playing heroside

  Reveal hidden contents

(I assume for the irony)

, is that in and of itself a violation of this policy? Not only is that a controversial political figure

  Reveal hidden contents

(attacked unions for lawful assembly, and almost impeached over his illegal actions in the Iran Contra hearing)

but also because of association with current events

  Reveal hidden contents

(a racist d-list celebrity with age-related mental infirmity mishandling a pandemic response resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans)

.

 

In other words, to what extent is this policy enforceable?

  Reveal hidden contents

(Is statement of military rank a violation? How about talking about one's religious affiliation with a secretive religious groups such as the Freemasons?)

 

I think this is squarely in the realm of "GM enforcement" as I've been on the receiving end of consistent treatment for far less.  I don't think spoiler tags should be an out to escape enforcement either.

 

Just to compare, in a discussion about overall game balance, someone made an example of the NBA and how they wouldn't suggest limiting every current athlete's performance so they could join.  I didn't ask them to make an analogy or even criticize them for it.  I merely countered with another analogy that is a current situation with regards to Women's sports that takes into account provable scientific facts and I still got reported, post deleted and a multi-day ban.  I didn't even bring it up in an offensive way.

 

But ultimately, I feel the enforcement pushed out is heavily influenced by if/who decides to report a post.  If you're discussing things with chill people or those who are pro-free speech and no busy-bodies are lurking in the background, likely nothing will happen...but if it does get reported and the one reported is on a list, they will receive harsher treatment.  You end up with people that get away with being political and those that challenge them get the brunt of the GM enforcement of those policies.

 

I've actually tested it, lol

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Not every player is lucky enough to live in a country that enjoys free speech. Im not advocating the discussion of "religion, politics etc.." but i do feel we need to learn to manage our own emotions and not expect others to do it for us. If someone makes you uncomfortable, block them. Looking for an authority to swoop in and remove someone that is just speaking an opinion is at best Karen-like and at worst gestapo. 

[Zepp]

10 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I think this is squarely in the realm of "GM enforcement" as I've been on the receiving end of consistent treatment for far less.  I don't think spoiler tags should be an out to escape enforcement either.

 

Just to compare, in a discussion about overall game balance, someone made an example of the NBA and how they wouldn't suggest limiting every current athlete's performance so they could join.  I didn't ask them to make an analogy or even criticize them for it.  I merely countered with another analogy that is a current situation with regards to Women's sports that takes into account provable scientific facts and I still got reported, post deleted and a multi-day ban.  I didn't even bring it up in an offensive way.

 

But ultimately, I feel the enforcement pushed out is heavily influenced by if/who decides to report a post.  If you're discussing things with chill people or those who are pro-free speech and no busy-bodies are lurking in the background, likely nothing will happen...but if it does get reported and the one reported is on a list, they will receive harsher treatment.  You end up with people that get away with being political and those that challenge them get the brunt of the GM enforcement of those policies.

 

I've actually tested it, lol

I understand, and my spoiler boxes were used as a form of jest (self-censorship beyond absurdity in pointing out the irony of the initial post using political speech to ask people not to have political speech). These forums and in-game tend to do better than twitter or facebook, but there is still bias in what people perceive as controversial. For most people I know, my spoilered comments would not be controversial in the least. However, some Americans (mostly Americans) would suggest my comments were controversial. That doesn't make them any more or less factually accurate, its just that the American perspective tends to be farther to the right than most international perspectives. This means that things that are accepted as reality by 90% of the planet (anthropogenic climate change, the world being round, cricket being superior to baseball) are somehow up for debate in the United States...

 

In other words, be nice, be considerate of other people, and keep your off-topic discourse in the General chat. Also try to be clean even if the first stage DfB boss happens to be named "Tinder"...

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Zepp said:

I understand, and my spoiler boxes were used as a form of jest (self-censorship beyond absurdity in pointing out the irony of the initial post using political speech to ask people not to have political speech). These forums and in-game tend to do better than twitter or facebook, but there is still bias in what people perceive as controversial. For most people I know, my spoilered comments would not be controversial in the least. However, some Americans (mostly Americans) would suggest my comments were controversial. That doesn't make them any more or less factually accurate, its just that the American perspective tends to be farther to the right than most international perspectives. This means that things that are accepted as reality by 90% of the planet (anthropogenic climate change, the world being round, cricket being superior to baseball) are somehow up for debate in the United States...

 

In other words, be nice, be considerate of other people, and keep your off-topic discourse in the General chat. Also try to be clean even if the first stage DfB boss happens to be named "Tinder"...

I'd argue the point that American is more right than most countries.  A lot of other 1st world countries, including the US, tend to have their own spheres that will change their perspectives where ever you happen to be standing on that sphere.  So some aspects that seem more or less controversial isn't as such in other countries which will then, in turn, skew their perspective further.  To put my point in perspective, I think Sweden's ethnic population is over 60% Swede but I don't think we call them "farther to the right" despite ethnic diversity being a more left-leaning agenda...but I don't know if as many people of varied backgrounds has been clamoring to immigrate into Sweden whereas with the US, the playing field for that subject is wholly different.  From the sphere of a Swede, the US seeking to regulate immigration seems far right.

 

I think, what is reality (or purported as reality) has to be taken with a grain of ignorance to better see biases within your own perspective and/or within others.  The problem being, to do that, you have to actually listen and let people be heard because ideas can't be challenged otherwise.  Tip-toeing around politically correct speaking procedures is likely why things become more difficult to discuss, become more heated and controversial.