Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[AerialAssault]

So, my testing with an Energy Melee/Invuln Scrapper with an expensive build went uh, very well.

 

I was running missions on +1/x4 /w Bosses for a bit before bumping it up. Total Focus -> Energy Transfer is a really strong combo that, even if you went and did something wild like reduce how much damage it dealt, would still be a devastating combo. As it should be, in my opinion. Defeating a +1 Boss in two hits is hilariously funny.

 

The inclusion of Power Crash means that Energy Melee, at least in my experiences, has one of it's major weaknesses (lack of AoE) patched up significantly.

 

Now, this is all based on my very Casual experiences. I'm not a Pylon diver, I don't regularly play at +4/x8 so, my testing is skewed because for me, even doing +1/x4 /w Bosses is good by my standards.

 

I'll test again on a different, budget build and see how it performs with minimal/no slotting. But, to give you an idea of what kind of numbers it can pull out:

 

 

 

 

[Troo]

36 minutes ago, Vanden said:

and buff Energy Punch and Whirling Hands, and speed up Total Focus and Bone Smasher, and add a desperately-needed second AoE attack

Whirling Hands was overdue to be brought inline. (which is great that it was addressed)

 

Energy Punch and Bone Smash are nice surprise improvements. (if they make it to production, which they might not due to beta currently over performing)

 

Energy Punch and Bone Smash changes DO NOT make up for part time Energy Transfer. Definitely not if someone doesn't use Total Focus combo.

[jojogladco]

1 hour ago, Super Atom said:

We have the exact opposite opinions and that's ok. I think it now flows extremely well, feels amazing and also has improved it's general game play tenfold thanks to things like power crash and TF speed up. ET was never a bother for me, even with the first nerf. It now going fast again after TF is fine by me.

I have to agree. I played with EM quite a bit today and after a short adjustment period I got into a zen like state where the TF landing into ET crunch was like a metronome or the Tic>Tok on a clock. It was especially noticeable on AV fights, the way the attacks flowed just felt like a natural cadence for me. 

 

My 1st 50 back on Live was an EM/ELA Brute that got shelved after the nerfs long ago and with this updated I'm looking forward to him being reborn and not feeling useless and gimped.

[Vanden]

Just now, Troo said:

Energy Punch and Bone Smash changes DO NOT make up for part time Energy Transfer.

Before this patch you had fast Energy Transfer never. It's still an improvement.

[Solarverse]

49 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Solarverse is it because it is on beta?

Sort of, me and @Lines figured it out together. Its because of how the Homecoming Launcher works. I just need to get with @The Philotic Knight and let him know that with the new Launcher, the directory for the Data Folder has changed and will need to go in to the homecoming folder instead of the City of Heroes folder, since the Homecoming Folder is not inside the City of Heroes folder like the Tequila launcher is.

In other words, it's a small technicality that requires a bit of adjustment.

[Solarverse]

@Jimmy Please scratch the initial request. We got to the bottom of the cause. It wasn't you guys...well, sort of. It's the new launcher and how it works, but not the files themselves. Since the new launcher works outside of the City of Heroes folder and not within it, it does not access the Data Folder within the City of Heroes folder and requires its own Data Folder. Just a small technicality that I think can be worked around.

[Razor Cure]

I was sorta excited to see the changes. Just reading through ( havent been to test yet)..

Stun replaced with..an aoe cone stun? Um. Sure, its better..but..still minor damage? Does teh stalker version (if stalkers get it, I forget) at LEAST get more damage, to make up for no Aoe?

ET STILL a long animation. Sorry, this kills the set already for me. Two long animations, even if TF is faster. No thanks.

[Hew]

2 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

 

ET STILL a long animation. Sorry, this kills the set already for me. Two long animations, even if TF is faster. No thanks.

1 second animation on ET using a stack of focus is a "long animation"?

 

Please actually test the set. There are a lot of different things going on with EM, and as people here who are testing have already noticed, it plays significantly different. Why not copy an EM char you have to test, and give it a shot?

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Hew

[Troo]

12 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Before this patch you had fast Energy Transfer never. It's still an improvement.

One could argue that there is still no 'fast energy transfer'.

 

The fast Energy Transfer requires using Total Focus (2.53 seconds) then Energy Transfer (1 second) which is close to 2.67s and possibly longer using arcanatime over two powers.

 

I'm not sure the reason for removing the endurance from Energy Transfer but it may have to due with:

• "Shit! Fast Energy Transfer costs almost 40 endurance out of the box" or "Where'd my toggles go!".

 

I love that folks are getting to see a 1 second Energy Transfer and the impact that has on the power and the set. On a high recharge build with the self damage we really could kill ourselves over using it.

 

The current changes could be done differently without the combo mechanic and have the same benefit.

The current changes could also be done with a different power as the combo initiator with better results.

• example: Bone Smash as the initiator and effecting Total Focus rather than Energy Transfer (give ET the old 1s animation full time)

[Super Atom]

15 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

I was sorta excited to see the changes. Just reading through ( havent been to test yet)..

Stun replaced with..an aoe cone stun? Um. Sure, its better..but..still minor damage? Does teh stalker version (if stalkers get it, I forget) at LEAST get more damage, to make up for no Aoe?

ET STILL a long animation. Sorry, this kills the set already for me. Two long animations, even if TF is faster. No thanks.

Yeah, like said above I'd really just wait and test it. At first, it may seem like a huge change but it's not. It flows really nicely after practice and once you hit IO area the output is great. On stalkers, it's a huge difference so far, which after having no aoe is unsurprising. ET is only long if you don't have energy focus which is a guarantee proc off TF, which the only good option for that is TF or BU, but with BU you risk the BU ability being too strong. It fits well with TF because of recharge time, so you aren't perpetually in EF like would be the case with BS/punch. So if you're focusing ST, your best option is Total Focus *Which is now much shorter* ET *which would be instant*.

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

But, to give you an idea of what kind of numbers it can pull out:

 

But that's just Energy Transfer being Energy Transfer. You could always pull that off.

[Solarverse]

Well, after doing some testing today I can say that I am absolutely loving the changes to EM so far. The only issue I have with it at this point is the bad timing on the *Hit* for Quick Energy Transfer. I have not found any bugs with it other than that. Really hoping this is here to stay. Maybe give ET its original sound effects, but either way I am fine with that because I have already made a mod that brings that back anyway, sooooo....happy. Thank you Homecoming Dev Team!

[ScarySai]

That's not even that impressive by itself. Most attacks that crit can reach that level of power.

 

The raw beatdowns you can achieve with an attack chain as energy are a wonderful thing.

[Leogunner]

I know it's an unpopular opinion: 

Why is Power Crash such a large AoE?  And it's pretty similar in direction to changed cone melee attacks being made into "hit everything infront of you and slightly to the side".

 

I've always been an advocate for variety, even if it's not all that "meta".  Why not give EM a "longer" cone instead, like a concentrated punch penetrating in a line?  I dunno, likely no one cares as long as it changes their solo-maxed spawn kill times but it feels very same-y as just another wide-cone.  I remember having wide cones was a selling point to a set's AoE, not a standard feature.  Which sets now don't have a wide cone?  Super Strength?  And it's widely criticized that AoE is getting a bit out of hand too....

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I know it's an unpopular opinion: 

Why is Power Crash such a large AoE?  And it's pretty similar in direction to changed cone melee attacks being made into "hit everything infront of you and slightly to the side".

 

I've always been an advocate for variety, even if it's not all that "meta".  Why not give EM a "longer" cone instead, like a concentrated punch penetrating in a line?  I dunno, likely no one cares as long as it changes their solo-maxed spawn kill times but it feels very same-y as just another wide-cone.  I remember having wide cones was a selling point to a set's AoE, not a standard feature.  Which sets now don't have a wide cone?  Super Strength?  And it's widely criticized that AoE is getting a bit out of hand too....

You're not wrong about aoe being out of hand, but my best guess is this change was done to bring EM's multi-target capabilities up. Current state cone did so for current City of Heroes balancing. In the future, if aoes were dialed back in a global scale, i could see doing this to EM's new cone.

[Razor Cure]

Just went to Test to have a play. Made an Em/rad scrapper. It does play much much better. Will do some more messing about, but it looks like a winner!

[Razor Cure]

41 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

he only issue I have with it at this point is the bad timing on the *Hit* for Quick Energy Transfer.

Seeing this too. A slight disconnect between the 'hit' and teh damage being applied.

[TheEmpyrean]

No...

 

No no no no no!

 

All of the other changes are fine, whatever, but please, PLEASE for the love of Mike don't make Energy Transfer, one of the most bad ass single target hits in the game, be delivered by a high five. 

 

I just...

 

It'll...

 

That's my favorite toon D:!

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, TheEmpyrean said:

No...

 

No no no no no!

 

All of the other changes are fine, whatever, but please, PLEASE for the love of Mike don't make Energy Transfer, one of the most bad ass single target hits in the game, be delivered by a high five. 

 

I just...

 

It'll...

 

That's my favorite toon D:!

The high five is it's original animation, you can avoid that animation by not using Energy focus, it'll use the old-new animation if you desire though it'll also take longer to go off

[TheEmpyrean]

Just now, Super Atom said:

The high five is it's original animation, you can avoid that animation by not using Energy focus, it'll use the old-new animation if you desire though it'll also take longer to go off

Blech, then the original animation sucked.  I don't want to give up the whole point of the new revamp, I just want an animation that looks as powerful as the hit is.  If they just took away the long buildup and left the double punch animation then it'd mesh better and still look powerful.

[Super Atom]

Just now, TheEmpyrean said:

Blech, then the original animation sucked.  I don't want to give up the whole point of the new revamp, I just want an animation that looks as powerful as the hit is.  If they just took away the long buildup and left the double punch animation then it'd mesh better and still look powerful.

I agree, being able to use a quick version of the old-new animation would be cool.

[TheEmpyrean]

5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I agree, being able to use a quick version of the old-new animation would be cool.

Yeah, I mean, they could at least put it in as a customization option or something.  Just at least an alternative to a dainty high five for one of the heaviest single target hits in the game with screen shake!

Edited October 25, 2020 by TheEmpyrean

[Tsuko]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:54 PM, Bopper said:

Are you just wanting to remove the Slow ET? I think it still has better DPA than the other attacks, so including it is not a bad idea.

 

But if you want to mix things up:

TF / EP / ET(fast) / BS / EP

Stalker EM / Bio.

T4 muscu / assaut Double hit / degen / ageless core 

 

Just switch Stun for PC (with 5 armag)

 

Under Adrenal Booster :

 

 

 

Rotation : TF / fast ET / AS / Moonbeam

ATO hide on TF and ATO Build up on ET.

Can have double fast ET on each TF crit.

 

Solo on pylon :

average 1m55 w/out assaut

average 1m30 with assaut

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Tsuko

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

Stalker EM / Bio.

T4 muscu / assaut Double hit / degen / ageless core 

EM bio E27 beta.mxd 5.69 kB · 0 downloads

Just switch Stun for PC (with 5 armag)

 

Under Adrenal Booster :

 

 

Rotation : TF / fast ET / AS / Moonbeam

ATO hide on TF and ATO Build up on ET.

Can have double fast ET on each TF crit.

 

Solo on pylon :

average 1m55 w/out assaut

average 1m30 with assaut

 

 

 

Try switching the build up ATO to EP I was able to average 1:40s and that was with agility as the alpha.

 

Also had body mastery.

 

Best time was 1:11

 

Oh just noticed something else, switch assault radial to core.  It favors the big dmg hits of EM more.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Infinitum

[csr]

9 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

It's a 120 Arc cone. On Tankers thats 240 arc. With 10 range (melee range is 8 usually).

 

This ain't no regular cone.

It's actually 180 degrees on Tankers.  They lowered the arc multiplier to 1.5x just before the patch went live.