Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[Wavicle]

8 minutes ago, VV said:

As a long-time Gravity mainliner, this is some nonsense. It really takes away from the uniqueness of Wormhole. Now half the tanks and other meleers are going to be teleporters. I tolerated everyone mocking Wormhole for YEARS back in live. Nowadays people finally appreciate it a little bit. Then, it gets nullified. (And don't tell me about the stun blah blah blah, lots of powersets have Stuns, that's not the exciting part). And so, Fold Space is available at 14, but Gravity still doesn't get it till 26? Even worse nonsense. Yes, I realize FS can only pull the enemies to you, but that's what WH is usually used for, anyway, so the limitation there is minor.

Wormhole needs to work on higher level, higher rank enemies.

[Hopestar]

Wormhole needs a buff that's all. It still has a lot more control going for it than Fold which just teleports anything in 100 radius LoS.

What the real problem is here is Teleport itself not getting buffed to cast faster and use less endurance to match the other travel powers, and Warshade's Teleport not even getting the phase part...

[DoctorDitko]

18 minutes ago, VV said:

takes away from the uniqueness of Wormhole

I was worried about this, myself, but I think we'll be okay.

Have you tried it? The differences are notable.

 

First, Fold Space doesn't let you choose you targets. It's grab-whatever-is-near.

 

Second, you can't position enemies. they appear at you. Not (as I prefer with Wormhole) at max range in the air, to fall to their stunned, partly damaged fate.

 

There is room for both powers.

9 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Wormhole needs to work on higher level, higher rank enemies.

Absolutely agreed! With this one change, we have a nice balance and an overall win!

 

And, yes, Teleport itself needs more range, (we no longer have the hardware limitations that inspired its short range) and a Hover that lasts as long as you want it to (break on move is good). We are getting closer to the Teleport pool being a good travel power choice, let's just stay civil and advocate!

Edited November 2, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, Hopestar said:

Warshade's Teleport not even getting the phase part...

Definitely yes on the warshade thing

[aethereal]

Hey, honest question:  What's being solved with the teleport phase thing?  Were people finding teleport unsafe as a travel power?  Or is this an in-combat thing?

[Monos King]

So, here's a suggestion unrelated to the changes here (which from what I gather are pretty good).

 

What if we made a little more use of the Thumbtack Map feature? I really like the AE testing "Teleport to Next Objective" feature, and everyone likes the mission teleport thing. So Two ideas just for thought.

 

It'd be cool to see a mechanic where you place a marker where you stand that persists for a long time (like 15-30m), similar to ouroboros portal, that let's you teleport back to that exact spot later on. You can place up to 3 or something. And then once 3 are set, you can click that same power to quickly shift between locations in the same way you do between objectives in AE Missions. Interacting with each of the markers would delete them, and give you the ability to set a new one. And setting your first marker leaves a Thumbtack on the map.

 

The other idea was just to be able to teleport to a thumbtack every hour, but that's probably OP and I am saying it only for sport.

[KaizenSoze]

49 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Hey, honest question:  What's being solved with the teleport phase thing?  Were people finding teleport unsafe as a travel power?  Or is this an in-combat thing?

I am guessing, that's because you can accidentally TP right into a spawn.

[VV]

1 hour ago, Hopestar said:

Wormhole needs a buff that's all.

 

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Wormhole needs to work on higher level, higher rank enemies.

This would be acceptable. Increase the accuracy, too. Even just allowing the TP mag to be enhanced, like you can for KB, would be a step in the right direction.

[arkieboy72472]

2 hours ago, VV said:

As a long-time Gravity mainliner, this is some nonsense. It really takes away from the uniqueness of Wormhole. Now half the tanks and other meleers are going to be teleporters. I tolerated everyone mocking Wormhole for YEARS back in live. Nowadays people finally appreciate it a little bit. Then, it gets nullified. (And don't tell me about the stun blah blah blah, lots of powersets have Stuns, that's not the exciting part). And so, Fold Space is available at 14, but Gravity still doesn't get it till 26? Even worse nonsense. Yes, I realize FS can only pull the enemies to you, but that's what WH is usually used for, anyway, so the limitation there is minor.

I see you are new here lol. Yea, about 12 pages ago I said the same thing. I am at the stage called “acceptance.” Just think of it as another asset for a gravity controller. Now, we get two if we want. Don’t hold your breath on a buff to wormhole (or perhaps, making cage powers a toggle). Pro tips: if you slot the hell out of time juncture with -tohit and have a high enough melee def. you can survive the alpha until you lock them down. Learn to cast the targeted slow patch on your own location. Also, if you hover a bit, they will fall and drop nicely into your slow patch you have directly below you. If they are picking themselves back up, they can’t attack. Unlike dark, our lockdowns are not cones. You will come around 🙂

Edited November 2, 2020 by arkieboy72472

[arkieboy72472]

37 minutes ago, VV said:

 

This would be acceptable. Increase the accuracy, too. Even just allowing the TP mag to be enhanced, like you can for KB, would be a step in the right direction.

I would take a 50% or better chance for an extra +1 mag at this point.

[DoctorDitko]

A stackable but lesser extra mag would fit with some of the power changes in this release. But those usually require multiple applications. Would a sniper-like "take twice as long for more effect" mechanic do? I think it would work for me.

[Dragon Crush]

For wormhole, I think it should just get extra mag on the TP without requiring extra steps or % chance of working, but you'l be rolling the dice on things you either can't stun or who purple patch your stun into wearing off near instantly.  

If wormhole got sufficiently buffed, I could see a 50% +mag 1 or 2 to TP for fold space so it might be better at grabbing higher level bosses or EBs.

[DoctorDitko]

I'd like Wormhole to remain a cool power in itself, rather than being Fold Space-Pro.

 

Someone uptopic suggested a boost for Wormhole (or maybe it was LRTP) if you had invested heavily in the Teleportation Pool. I don't know if that would be easy to implement, but it sounds interesting.

 

Maybe it's just a database change, and we'd be in luck!

 

OT: In any event, it would be cooler to boost Wormhole than to nerf Fold Space!

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Dragon Crush]

Ditching team teleport entirely wouldn't be cool, at the very least MMs tend to like it for pet positioning. Maybe making it so that when you pick TP you also get team TP since you can't exactly use both at the same time anyway, but there seems to only be one person who's pushing for LRTP to be folded back into the teleport pool regardless of what has to be removed to shove it back in there.

 

Also I could be wrong, but I suspect the upgradable nature of the new LRTP works only because it's an accolade, not sure if a pool power can change based on badges you may or may not have (but could be wrong on that).

[dtj714]

7 minutes ago, Dragon Crush said:

Ditching team teleport entirely wouldn't be cool, at the very least MMs tend to like it for pet positioning. Maybe making it so that when you pick TP you also get team TP since you can't exactly use both at the same time anyway, but there seems to only be one person who's pushing for LRTP to be folded back into the teleport pool regardless of what has to be removed to shove it back in there.

 

Also I could be wrong, but I suspect the upgradable nature of the new LRTP works only because it's an accolade, not sure if a pool power can change based on badges you may or may not have (but could be wrong on that).

I didn't realize TT (or Group Fly) had any viable use any longer.  My apologies, carry on...

[ForeverLaxx]

1 hour ago, dtj714 said:

I didn't realize TT (or Group Fly) had any viable use any longer.  My apologies, carry on...

Aye, Team TP was my go-to power for taking my pets with me on my Necro/Poison MM back on live. Being able to take the entire army up the side of a cliff, or over a bunch of pillars in Oranbega was far preferable to just letting them lazily path their way to me and probably pick up the entire room as aggro along the way. It also helped as my guy was a Tankermind, so being able to jump myself and my pets into the middle of a spawn sped things up considerably.

[Menelruin]

14 hours ago, Monos King said:

So, here's a suggestion unrelated to the changes here (which from what I gather are pretty good).

 

What if we made a little more use of the Thumbtack Map feature? I really like the AE testing "Teleport to Next Objective" feature, and everyone likes the mission teleport thing. So Two ideas just for thought.

 

It'd be cool to see a mechanic where you place a marker where you stand that persists for a long time (like 15-30m), similar to ouroboros portal, that let's you teleport back to that exact spot later on. You can place up to 3 or something. And then once 3 are set, you can click that same power to quickly shift between locations in the same way you do between objectives in AE Missions. Interacting with each of the markers would delete them, and give you the ability to set a new one. And setting your first marker leaves a Thumbtack on the map.

 

The other idea was just to be able to teleport to a thumbtack every hour, but that's probably OP and I am saying it only for sport.

I was just thinking about this.  It could be tricky in mutli-level maps, but you might be able to limit it to outdoor maps, and say your character falls from the sky, with some massive amount of fall protection for a few seconds.  Hell, even if it was limited to non-instance maps, and just had a number of "hotspots" you could teleport to (certain contacts, detectives, transport, etc) would make it feel more "valid."

[Replacement]

Since this is an overall Teleportation Pool rework, I would like to toss in a suggestion for actual-Teleport to make it more agreeable for travel.

 

Increase the hover time slightly (0.5-1 second).  Stay with me, I have my reasons.

Lower the fly speed penalties to be more like Hover or even faster.  Let it represent maintaining your momentum.  Changing direction is nothing in a game where I can Super Jump around corners.  So let Teleport give us the same.

Keep the "cancel fly on attack" so we still have a fast way down.  I would still champion adding the descend button (default bind: X) as a means to immediately shut off the Fly effect as well.

 

Keeping in mind Combat Teleport exists for people who hate the hover, I believe this would really help general usability in travel Teleport without resorting to things that are abusable or require two separate versions of the power to be handled with Redirects.

[VV]

17 hours ago, arkieboy72472 said:

I see you are new here lol. Yea, about 12 pages ago I said the same thing. I am at the stage called “acceptance.” Just think of it as another asset for a gravity controller. Now, we get two if we want. Don’t hold your breath on a buff to wormhole (or perhaps, making cage powers a toggle). Pro tips: if you slot the hell out of time juncture with -tohit and have a high enough melee def. you can survive the alpha until you lock them down. Learn to cast the targeted slow patch on your own location. Also, if you hover a bit, they will fall and drop nicely into your slow patch you have directly below you. If they are picking themselves back up, they can’t attack. Unlike dark, our lockdowns are not cones. You will come around 🙂

Who you think you schooling on wormhole tactics? Boy, I been wormholing stuff since before you were born.

[DoctorDitko]

Play nice, kids!

Plus, some of us were using Gravity since before Wormhole was added!

 

Replacement, I like most of your ideas, but why not have the Hover last until you decide to move? Lag seldom kills super-speedsters, fliers, or super-leapers. Why should it be able to doom Teleporters? 

[arthurh35353]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be a bit unpopular for Fold Space as a 'good' power, but not only does it step on Wormhole's job it is actively making things easier for ATs that need the least help in game. And is actively dangerous to people that can't survive up to 16 mobs aggro. So it's basically only helpful in helping people level faster and easier to those that... actually need it the least.

 

For traps, it might be a nice buff to an AT powerset. Maybe give Time bomb a half power version so that it isn't a waste.

 

I'm just a bit inured at this point. The Devs think this is a a great way to add combat power to Teleport, except its still much better for some people than others. Then in 6+ months they are going to discover that players have used it to break some trial or task force to make it utterly trivial and then they'll be forced to 'rebalance it' so that its not as good, which will just upset everyone again.

[Vanden]

33 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Lag seldom kills super-speedsters, fliers, or super-leapers. Why should it be able to doom Teleporters? 

Isn't the 4-second phase going to take care of that?

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be a bit unpopular for Fold Space as a 'good' power, but not only does it step on Wormhole's job it is actively making things easier for ATs that need the least help in game. And is actively dangerous to people that can't survive up to 16 mobs aggro. So it's basically only helpful in helping people level faster and easier to those that... actually need it the least.

 

For traps, it might be a nice buff to an AT powerset. Maybe give Time bomb a half power version so that it isn't a waste.

 

I'm just a bit inured at this point. The Devs think this is a a great way to add combat power to Teleport, except its still much better for some people than others. Then in 6+ months they are going to discover that players have used it to break some trial or task force to make it utterly trivial and then they'll be forced to 'rebalance it' so that its not as good, which will just upset everyone again.

Anyone so powerful they can solo x8 is already bleeding edge.

 

 The question is not about its usefulness solo. That’s pretty much irrelevant. The question is how useful is it on a team, where it benefits everyone equally.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Wavicle

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

Anyone so powerful they can solo x8 is always bleeding edge.

 

 The question is not about its usefulness solo. That’s pretty much irrelevant. The question is how useful is it on a team, where it benefits everyone equally.

It actively helps melee powersets that are balanced around having more mobs in melee for survivability. So no, it actually does help some people in melee solo quite a bit.

[Ironblade]

8 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I'm just a bit inured at this point. The Devs think this is a a great way to add combat power to Teleport, except its still much better for some people than others.

But that's normal.  Many powers are better for some people than others.  What use does a Willpower tank have for Hasten?  Contrast that with how useful Hasten is to a Dominator.  Most people don't take Teleport because they feel it's difficult to use.  But it seems that most Stone tanks do take it.