Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[Heraclea]

What I suspect is actually going to happen is drama resulting from teams constantly breaking and re-forming so people can use the teleport to task/strike force contact queue for relatively instant travel between zones.  Inevitably people will be missed, and there will be grief.   The new, inadequate substitutes will mostly be a tax on task force runners, where this tactic won't work.  Fortunately, levelling in the AE bears no such penalties.  Shikata ga nai. 

 

 

 

 

[Blackfeather]

24 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

What I suspect is actually going to happen is drama resulting from teams constantly breaking and re-forming so people can use the teleport to task/strike force contact queue for relatively instant travel between zones.  Inevitably people will be missed, and there will be grief.   The new, inadequate substitutes will mostly be a tax on task force runners, where this tactic won't work.  Fortunately, levelling in the AE bears no such penalties.  Shikata ga nai.

Actually, that does bring up another thought - entering supergroup bases on teams with mixed Blueside/Redside alignments can sometimes cause team members to be kicked off: that happens currently in game as is. Might a fix for that potentially in the works somewhere, @Jimmy?

[srmalloy]

On 10/25/2020 at 12:15 PM, Faultline said:

Echo Zones: they're gone from base teleporters because that's time travel, not teleportation even across dimensions. It could be argued that traveling to Praetoria after it's canonically destroyed in the Magisterium trial is time travel, but that is not how the game treats it. Canonically, only Cimerora, Ourobors and the Echo Zones are time travel, therefore they don't belong in the Base Teleporter network.

While responding to another post elsewhere in the forums, I had a thought -- is this justification going to be applied consistently across all base teleportation? If the Base Teleporter network can't reach across time, then the "rez in base" option needs to be disabled in the defeat window for being defeated in Cimerora, the Echo zones, and Flashback missions in Ouroboros, since the teleport to rez you in your base is yanking you across time, and exiting your base at the base portal afterwards sends you back across time. Similarly, all of the powers that summon a base portal would need to be disabled under the same conditions -- if the Base Teleporter network can't reach to send you there, it shouldn't be able to reach to allow you to come back.

[Apparition]

19 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Actually, that does bring up another thought - entering supergroup bases on teams with mixed Blueside/Redside alignments can sometimes cause team members to be kicked off: that happens currently in game as is. Might a fix for that potentially in the works somewhere, @Jimmy?

I very rarely do blue side missions on teams outside of task forces and trials.  Friends of mine asked me to run the Tina MacIntyre mission arc with them over the past weekend however, and I joined.  Out of stubbornness and red side pride, I refused to change my character’s alignment from Rogue.  I was booted from the team about four times, whenever people on the team went to their SG base or Ouroboros.  It was quite annoying and reminded me exactly why I only do task forces and trials blue side.

 

Edit: I should also add that one mission was in Kallisti Wharf.  When the mission owner entered the mission, I was booted from the team as well.  I suspect because that Kallisti Wharf is a co-op zone, so it recognized me as a villain.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Apparition

[UltraAlt]

Talos seems to be the new travel hub.

Base portal, tramp, and wormhole right up on each other within blaster range.

[ATalsen]

Personal Background: I never played on live; I started playing less than a year ago. I've done quite a bit of online research to learn this game, how to build characters and how it all works, but I never encountered a mention of the base passcode going away. I heard about the base passcode while online, and used it from that point on, and travel was STILL a learning curve, but not a painful one.

---

 

So, instant entry from anywhere is going away for legitimate reasons, and begin replaced with other options, so I have some questions:

Specifically in Atlas Park, where does Long Range Teleport drop you? Is it in the central area near the Super Group Base portal?
(If it is, I can see easily getting the Atlas Park accolades for LRT on each of my characters and using that to port and enter the base for travel)

If you use one of the new powers that drop a base teleporter, when you return from the base via the entry portal, do you drop right back where you were in the zone you left?
(that was the part I loved best - I could go level, or grab inspirations, and come right back to where I was in the zone)

 

Comments:
I think the P2W option needs to be 1M cost and not 10M cost. I DO vendor but I'm not rolling in enough cash to pay 10M to buy that on all 20-ish of my alts.

 

I think all the base items need a cooldown of 5 minus or less (I guess I'm talking only about the P2W power?). I'm not a speed demon when it comes to finishing a mission map, so 5 minutes cooldown is short enough to allow me to do one, then use the power to travel to base. I assume that on a mission with other people maybe one person per mission will need to drop a base porter, and that 5 minutes is still a good timing because groups clear faster in my experience.

So, while I'm surprised that the command is not going to work for instant travel anymore, I think maybe I can adapt as long as the options work the way I hope they do, and the cooldown isn't too high on the pay power.

Edited October 28, 2020 by ATalsen

[ZacKing]

20 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Talos seems to be the new travel hub.

Base portal, tramp, and wormhole right up on each other within blaster range.

Until that and LFG instant port gets nerfed too.  :)

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

What I suspect is actually going to happen is drama resulting from teams constantly breaking and re-forming so people can use the teleport to task/strike force contact queue for relatively instant travel between zones.  Inevitably people will be missed, and there will be grief.   The new, inadequate substitutes will mostly be a tax on task force runners, where this tactic won't work.  Fortunately, levelling in the AE bears no such penalties.  Shikata ga nai. 

 

 

 

 

 

Could fix that by requiring a minimum of two people to join the LFG queue for a task force/strike force/trial.

[QuiJon]

2 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Well, that's the thing. I don't think the devs are interested in creating a power like that - that'd hew too close to outright replacing the slash command that they restricted in the first place. While I'm sure all of our voices are being heard on this matter, I'm personally preparing for when/if these changes roll out.

And so what exactly is the problem with replacing the old slash command with a new power that doesnt have the exploitability of the slash command but 100 percent of the functionality??

 

I mean you sit back and say you dont think they were interested in doing that. Well why not? The one thing missing from this conversation is what were the devs motivations for going this insanely unpopular route? I know that is a very slanted view but lets face facts, for over a year now this discussion has been going on that the slashcommand was 1. not ever intended for general use and that 2. the devs were leaving it available while they sought out a resolution.

 

This indicates to me a few things. First that obviously yes at some point the slash command would be going away in that form. It would because as an instant power it was to ease to exploit as an escape button. (i know other things have come up but since they are not public and i dont know what they are i cant discuss them) But the very idea that these escape buttons had been brought forward and the command was not instantly turned off also indicates that the devs knew of the commands popularity, and DIDNT feel that is broke the game to leave open while they crafted their fix for it. 

 

We were being told that the devs were looking for a way to keep something as functional without the exploits.  And when that came to pass the command would be removed. I dont want to act like i am calling out the devs here cause i am not. But the one thing that seems to be missing from this conversation is WHY. For over a year of people using the command, making centeral travel hubs and role players using it for their reindeer games I think it became really obvious to anyone that at its most basic level the slash command was popular and other then pvp and MOTF didnt really break anything. So when you go into a room or whatever and start throwing around ideas on how to fix the slash command issue how do we arrive at this mixed up pool of powers as a fix that wont even allow for the most basic use of the slash command in the first place without committing players to doing extra things or giving up things they do already do. I feel like a bunch of smart guys and gals would have started out with the idea of just "hey orruo portal but opens the base" as the very first idea. It is simple, fills in all the wants and doesnt require a rework of a quarter of a different system mechanic and doesnt require anything new of the players. 

 

So i feel like to go from that to what they are presenting has to have some reason behind it why they think it is needed to make our lives more difficult (in game anyway) by implementing the changes/fix in this manner. And i would be interested in hearing that logic. After all it is kind of hard to provide feedback if we are told the command represents a certain set of  problems and we are arguing those points and fixes only to find out that the developers were trying to fix an entire different issue. 

[ZacKing]

I get the impression from the posts here that HC doesn't care too much about any feedback other than "does this stuff work".  These new portal powers are what we're going to get and I don't think theres going to be any major changes to them.  still haven't heard a good reason why they need to have stupid long recharges or limited uses. 

[DoctorDitko]

Well, technically they are replacing an exploit with an actual power. All the powers in the game have charges, recharges, or otherwise get used up.

What would you suggest as a model for the replacement power? Even Rest has a recharge (though, thankfully, much reduced on HC).

[ZacKing]

20 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Well, technically they are replacing an exploit with an actual power. All the powers in the game have charges, recharges, or otherwise get used up.

What would you suggest as a model for the replacement power? Even Rest has a recharge (though, thankfully, much reduced on HC).

Just make one power that summons the portal with a 30 second recharge that doesn't need to be recharged like the rapid response.  a 30 minute recharge on a P2W power is a complete joke and a huge waste of inf.  I can see it on TT as it drops you right at the door.  bases don't.

[UltraAlt]

26 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Well, technically they are replacing an exploit with an actual power. All the powers in the game have charges, recharges, or otherwise get used up.

What would you suggest as a model for the replacement power? Even Rest has a recharge (though, thankfully, much reduced on HC).

Base teleport macro with 10 minute timer purchased from the P2W vendor for 1 mil?

 

New players won't now by default to park at the supergroup portal to get the Day Job power for free.

 

I would suggest a free power that is Inherent that drops in to the tray that recharges every 30 minutes or an hour at the most.

It still has the cycle-up/power-up before the transport and isn't instantaneous, but will get a newbie back to a base at the end of their play session.

 

Maybe that is what the Oro is for now?

But once again, this isn't something a new player would know about.

 

Sure a new player won't be able to tp to a base if the don't have one, but a simple on-screen error message "You can't teleport to a supergroup base until you are a supergroup member or have a pass code. Supergroups can be formed a level 10 or send a tell in looking for group for supergroup membership or base passcodes."

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by UltraAlt

[Lines]

4 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Just make one power that summons the portal with a 30 second recharge that doesn't need to be recharged like the rapid response.  a 30 minute recharge on a P2W power is a complete joke and a huge waste of inf.  I can see it on TT as it drops you right at the door.  bases don't.

I do agree that TT > Base Portal, and the prices should reflect this.

 

But also Base Portal > Base Transporter, so there might be some pushing and pulling with prices to figure out its value.

[ZacKing]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

I do agree that TT > Base Portal, and the prices should reflect this.

 

But also Base Portal > Base Transporter, so there might be some pushing and pulling with prices to figure out its value.

Price AND recharge should reflect it.  as far s the base port or base transporter, that's part of the problem.  why do we need so many?  just make one. either unlocked for inf via P2W or for free by joining a supergroup.  Short animation to summon the portal so it can be interrupted and 30 second recharge.  problem solved.  No need for useless recharges or other powers that do the same damn thing.

[dtj714]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

I get the impression from the posts here that HC doesn't care too much about any feedback other than "does this stuff work".  These new portal powers are what we're going to get and I don't think theres going to be any major changes to them.  still haven't heard a good reason why they need to have stupid long recharges or limited uses. 

This. The writing is on the wall...they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. But the fact that these changes have generated so much discussion shows the breakdown in the usual community/dev feedback relationship. 
 

They should have simply removed the base code command as a known hack/exploit, and then asked for input on the state of travel without it, since that should have been the “baseline” - now things are conflated. Yes, lots of people would still be whining, but it’s pretty easy to justify removing a known hack/exploit (even though they left it in game for a year - just admit the mistake and move forward). 

Edited October 28, 2020 by dtj714

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

I get the impression from the posts here that HC doesn't care too much about any feedback other than "does this stuff work".  These new portal powers are what we're going to get and I don't think theres going to be any major changes to them. 

It's been 4 days.

 

We have jobs.

 

🙂

[ZacKing]

sorry man, wasn't meant as an insult.  don't take it as one. 

[macskull]

7 hours ago, mrudat said:

I wonder, do you get Monitor Duty credit if, wherever you happen to log in is next to a summoned base portal? 😃

I don't think those portals give you Monitor Duty credit.

[Jimmy]

Just now, ZacKing said:

sorry man, wasn't meant as an insult.  don't take it as one. 

None taken, just try to have a little patience!

 

If we didn't care about feedback we would've just left the patch notes thread unlocked and not paid any attention. Instead we're putting in a significant amount of effort to manage, monitor and moderate dozens of focused feedback threads 🙂 (thank you @GM Tahquitzand @GM Widower!)

 

Now I'm going to stop breaking my own rules, let's get back on topic!

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

I don't think those portals give you Monitor Duty credit.

They do not.

 

Imagine logging off for for a few days to get a badge and someone summoning a portal on top of you before you log in? That'd be the worst!

[Blackbird71]

4 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Different strokes... I have been using the heck out of it, I figured I'd enjoy it while it lasts! I guess I'm part of the problem, but I admire your self-discipline.

 

Deep breath...

It strikes me that a lot of the angst surrounding the loss of /enterbasefrompasscode is related to the perceived scarcity of the proposed replacements. I understand. I have had many characters die with a fully charged Wedding Ring that might have saved them, but I didn't want to "waste" it.

 

BTW, is everyone remembering that the P2W Self-Destruct power is both a debt-free trip to the local hospital and one more way to reach your base? (As long as you have a Rez circle there) If you remember to hit it in time it sometimes does enough damage to your murderers that you get some revenge. A bargain at 100,000 Inf!

 

But back on topic: if there was a way to reduce the perceived scarcity of travelling to the base, it might help with player acceptance of the change. Not sure what would be acceptable and easy to implement, but it could be a purchasable inspiration, a temp power, a chance that any particular use wouldn't eat a charge, a way to trade them, being able to get them in a Super Pack, saying Team Leaders travel free, making them able to be sold on the Auction House...

 

Any of these might help alleviate the anxiety I'm seeing here. Just a thought, but I think the perception is the worst part of this change.

 

Finally, to end this rant, please everyone keep in mind that the Devs here are doing this for fun. Everything they are doing is using time not spent with their families, playing with their dogs, or building their own B-9 Lost in Space robots. You know, like normal people.

 

The scarcity is part of the issue, sure, but it's not the whole thing.  A big part of it is the glut of powers we have now intended to take the place of one simple command.  None of those powers alone will fill the need; they either have limited recharges, too long of a recharge, require too much Inf or badge hunting to get on multiple alts, etc.  One command is being replaced with a mess, when the fact is the game already had base teleport powers that could have been adjusted to fill the need, and done so in a way that would only require a single power to get close to (though not exactly the same as) the previous functionality that had become the standard in the game for well over a year.

[Lockpick]

2 hours ago, QuiJon said:

I feel like a bunch of smart guys and gals would have started out with the idea of just "hey orruo portal but opens the base" as the very first idea. It is simple, fills in all the wants and doesnt require a rework of a quarter of a different system mechanic and doesnt require anything new of the players. 

This does seems like the most obvious and easiest solution; wonder what prevented it from happening?

[Apparition]

I feel like a lot of people are getting stuck in the weeds instead of looking at the big picture when it comes to the number of transport options.  You don't need all of the transport powers.  Myself, I plan on mainly using the P2W Base Transporter and the Long Range Teleport accolade.  Between the two of them and people using Team Transporter, that is more than sufficient for getting around Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, and Praetoria.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Apparition

[macskull]

17 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

This does seems like the most obvious and easiest solution; wonder what prevented it from happening?

I think it had to do with the order in which the changes were made during the earlier beta builds. Based on some dev chatter in the testing Discord, there's going to be a future patch that consolidates some of the existing transport options to address the "there are too many powers in my trays now" complaints.