The Coming Storm

[Darmian]

Well, personally I'd prefer revamps to be things like the upgrade Atlas got rather than the complete change DA got.

[Ruin Mage]

The unfortunate part of The Coming Storm plot is that this thread shows it's a divisive issue.

There'd also be a lot to do just on the side of getting the story concluded - given that the Battalion were this alien conglomerate, it'd mean new npcs and that brings all sorts of new things to make/add. 

Then you add in the Incarnate side, and the Incarnate system is divisive as well. To truly conclude it, you'd need more stuff for Incarnates (given that's where the big stuff would happen + Battalion's goals) and that'd cause people to gripe about the system even more.

Plus people going 'ugh this story', and so on. As well as people saying they believe the dev time is better spent elsewhere. Which is fair and fine - we're all entitled to our opinions.

The whole thing of it being cringe is a little laughable - it was just getting past 2010, of course stuff was 'cringe'. MMORPGs often miss the mark on story-telling. Often, but not always.

Personally speaking, HC might be better off doing their own thing. Unless they suddenly hire on amazing people and boost their team of devs massively so.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Shadeknight

[Darmian]

21 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

The whole thing of it being cringe is a little laughable - it was just getting past 2010, of course stuff was 'cringe

Laughable? Well maybe, but it was cringe then, and it would have probably have been cringe in 2004. For my money's worth it's not even cringe, it's actually crap.

 

You're absolutely right that if pursued this would involve a lot of work on new material/models/maps, possibly powers, who knows, and we're simply not in a situation where that's viable now, or for the foreseeable future. HC right now, blessings in disguise perhaps, are in a position to forge a different path away from the constant "Bigger/Faster/More" sequelitis that plagues many a thing, because obviously "The Coming Storm" would have to have been "Bigger/Faster/More" than the Praetorian War, blah blah. Just another cycle of painting yourself into a corner and then hoping the room magically gets bigger.

 

We shall see.

[Grindingsucks]

I'd like to see some folks tackle it as a series of AE missions. 

 

I know at least one person has attempted this (I tried their arc, and was not a fan, to be honest).  I don't think the concept is terribly dumb (at least, no more so than most comic book story arcs- many of which have involved invasions of sort, be it otherworldly, dimensionally, or what have you) but given that the Rikti have already survived a war with the Battalion, it's necessary to establish how and why they're a genuine threat (and accurately convey that threat in the missions- which was one area where the author of the mission I played failed to convince me).

 

[Arbegla]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:41 PM, SaintD said:

People are thinking like this game is 'in development'. It's not.

 

The Coming Storm is absolutely not coming, and if the people running the servers bring it to us, it will be a massive disappointment. That's not a knock to them, it's reality. This is hobbyists toying with the assets left to us, not a paid development studio.

 

While this is a little off topic, I would very much disagree with this. The new Freak-lok arcs show that there is development going on, its just @Piecemeal (pun not intended) and a few others who are adding things here and there when they can.

I think once the Devs are done with their tweaks, they might take a good hard look at the coming storm story, and see if they care enough to address it. Either on, or offline.

[Mopery]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:12 AM, EmperorSteele said:

The "coming" storm? More like the "it came, it saw, it kicked our ass" storm. At least, that's how I personally view the shutdown of the live servers, with Homecoming (and others) being small pocket dimensions that have so far escaped the Battalion's notice.

Exactly! I think "the Coming Storm" was actually the "Korean Business Model", that being:

          1. Intercourse your loyal customer base.

          2. Tell them to just accept it, to "not dwell on the how or why".

          3. Remind them that they've just released a shiny new game that they'd like you to play!

          4. There is no #4.

          5. Refer to #1.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mopery

[starro]

I am good seeing a Coming Storm story from HomeComing even if it takes years and is their own version.    I waited many years for this game to come back anyways so patience is a thing I got down.    I know we will never have an expansion level code drop or even an Paragon size issue drop, but that's fine too.   However, A Khalisti zone completion here over a few pages,  Genesis layer of Incarnate level,  A very skinny moon base from Boom Town.....  Maybe Battallion is just a name and not a seen villain for a while, maybe we see a new villain group or even the Dimensionless in their time.    If Piecemeal or other volunteers come up with some lore and side stories at their pace then that is good for me.

[Piecemeal]

8 hours ago, Arbegla said:

 

While this is a little off topic, I would very much disagree with this. The new Freak-lok arcs show that there is development going on, its just @Piecemeal (pun not intended) and a few others who are adding things here and there when they can.

I think once the Devs are done with their tweaks, they might take a good hard look at the coming storm story, and see if they care enough to address it. Either on, or offline.

 

I would rather try and disappoint than not try at all.

 

The Coming Storm may or may not be coming, but as long as I'm around, I'm working towards it.

[EmperorSteele]

7 hours ago, Mopery said:

Exactly! I think "the Coming Storm" was actually the "Korean Business Model", that being:

          1. Intercourse your loyal customer base.

         

 

... WHUT.

 

Well, that explains why we all got screwed!

Edited April 9, 2021 by EmperorSteele

[Darmian]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

but as long as I'm around, I'm working towards it.

Well, I've been damn impressed with your output so far, so for this player that's a good sign.  Caveat!  I still think the things rambled about in the old AMAs are crap. So..no pressure!

[TemporalVileTerror]

I think it's worth saying that if the Coming Storm is a massive disappointment, it has naught-all to do with the professional and/or hobbyist status of the people working on it.  To the die-hard City fan, the Coming Storm is on-par with Half-Life 3:  There's no way to do it "right" at this point; the fans have built up the best and the worst of it all too much already.  There's only doing it the way that it ultimately gets done, for better or for worse.

 

Like many others have said, I too really think the Homecoming Team should continue to focus on independent works of fiction within the City of Heroes setting.  

The Freakalok and what we've heard about Piecemeal's ideas for the Neo Warriors seem to be treading along a line, but leaning toward the side of making most players fairly happy for one or more reason.

My personal opinion is that Piecemeal did some truly excellent work in a lot of ways, but I felt that @holymittens delivered the superior writing for story arcs on Homecoming so far.

But, well, there are some idioms about opinions, right?  So . . . *shrugs*  I am curious to hear Piecemeal's ideas on the Coming Storm, when/if we get there.

[rookery.]

I have some ideas about the Coming Storm being a Grey Goo scenario writ large across a universe. Something akin to a nanite biological threat which spreads out every so millennium like army ants on a jungle floor and scour whole solar systems for resources.

 

I have played a bit of Creeper World. 😛

 

Call me Devs. I work for free!

[Grouchybeast]

The biggest problem with The Coming Storm was always the business case driving it.

 

The Coming Storm, and the whole incarnate system, was an attempt to push a stereotypical MMO end-game grind onto a playerbase that had evolved in a game without one.   It was only accessible to subscribers.  There was gear (incarnate powers) locked behind large group raids.  Incarnate tiers were, effectively, level cap raises.  Even though the devs were forced to back down a little, with things like the Dark Astoria revamp providing a very slow solo path, the intent of the Incarnate system was clearly to wrench the game's overarching development onto a new course, fundamentally different to what had gone before.

 

The HC devs are not beholden to whatever dictated those changes.  They shouldn't feel obliged to carry them through, and personally I hope they don't, because I think that, overall, the incarnate system/Coming Storm is a bad fit for CoX and the game would be better off without it.

[rookery.]

8 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

The biggest problem with The Coming Storm was always the business case driving it.

 

The Coming Storm, and the whole incarnate system, was an attempt to push a stereotypical MMO end-game grind onto a playerbase that had evolved in a game without one.   It was only accessible to subscribers.  There was gear (incarnate powers) locked behind large group raids.  Incarnate tiers were, effectively, level cap raises.  Even though the devs were forced to back down a little, with things like the Dark Astoria revamp providing a very slow solo path, the intent of the Incarnate system was clearly to wrench the game's overarching development onto a new course, fundamentally different to what had gone before.

 

The HC devs are not beholden to whatever dictated those changes.  They shouldn't feel obliged to carry them through, and personally I hope they don't, because I think that, overall, the incarnate system/Coming Storm is a bad fit for CoX and the game would be better off without it.

Agree with the last sentiment, nothing requires continuing with the prepared LORE from Live game....retcon/change the hell out of it and forge a different path

[Greycat]

30 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

The biggest problem with The Coming Storm was always the business case driving it.

 

The Coming Storm, and the whole incarnate system, was an attempt to push a stereotypical MMO end-game grind onto a playerbase that had evolved in a game without one.   It was only accessible to subscribers.  There was gear (incarnate powers) locked behind large group raids.  Incarnate tiers were, effectively, level cap raises.  Even though the devs were forced to back down a little, with things like the Dark Astoria revamp providing a very slow solo path, the intent of the Incarnate system was clearly to wrench the game's overarching development onto a new course, fundamentally different to what had gone before.

 

The HC devs are not beholden to whatever dictated those changes.  They shouldn't feel obliged to carry them through, and personally I hope they don't, because I think that, overall, the incarnate system/Coming Storm is a bad fit for CoX and the game would be better off without it.

 

This, pretty much exactly.

 

COH had done a great job of growing "out" rather than "up" - we didn't have the "typical MMO" model of "OK, next release, expansion to level +10, your gear is now obsolete, you need the Shiny Sword of Slashiness +6 to raid for the Fancy Armorpants in the new raid..."

 

Meanwhile, that's what was trying to be forced onto COH with the Incarnate system. First tier, get up to +4. Oh, next the Coming Storm and NextTypeOfXP to get the NEXT five Incarnate tiers. Once that was done, DImensionless and Yet More Incarnate Tree Growth. Then whatever followed them and ANOTHER branch/+5 Incarnate powers, probably with their own XP and salvage...

 

If they'd been allowed to continue, honestly, *this* would probably have killed the game for me. It and the Coming Storm would have gone hand in hand in that - I didn't like the coming storm storyline that was revealed, and I would not have liked "OK, we're going to try to jam some more levels in here for you to grind."

[gamingglen]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

COH had done a great job of growing "out" rather than "up" - we didn't have the "typical MMO" model of "OK, next release, expansion to level +10, your gear is now obsolete, you need the Shiny Sword of Slashiness +6 to raid for the Fancy Armorpants in the new raid..."

 

But I've been waiting for Killer-Diller* Zoot Suits to come to an MMO for so long... 

 

* a young Malcom X's description according to Wikipedia, 

 

P.S. Hah.. I can see a Family member bragging about his new zoot suit in some mission, and being laughed at by other Family members. 

 

[Marine X]

I realize that, after reading through this thread the AMA descriptions got a very lackluster reception and that this would be a lot of work if only a few were even interested in seeing it as described. So why not PUNT? Instead of trying to complete development of an ARC we have limited info about, why not take the most important elements and start there.

 

The biggest thing that we should have learned from the Rikti War is never fight a war on your own soil. Take the battle to your enemy. That could be achieved by having a team or league confront them off-planet. On the Moon or another planet, in a series of missions leading to a Taskforce to take them out. There are plenty of Mission Maps and Zone Assets ( Shadow Shard for example ) that could be modified to give us a non-City environment for the whole event, using Kallisti Wharf as the command Center and as the location of the Transportation Tech to get us there. This would eliminate a bunch of work on Zones and Factions that aren't part of the story. Keep the elements of the who and how to defeat them as something that is integral to the story as it unfolds. Any appearances of Battalion on Earth in Kallisti Wharf would be explainable as them tracing teams back from space to retaliate.

 

Just my ideas on it, carve it up, lol.

[Beef Ninja]

57 minutes ago, Marine X said:

On the Moon

Did somebody say moon?

 

[Darmian]

See, what we have here is a situation where Lord Recluse is, to paraphrase ...ahem...the hero that Paragon needs, not the one it wants, but he can take it. A Dark Knight, a watchful guardian, a beacon of hope against the Battalion.

 

 

(Goes and has a lie down) 

[gamingglen]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

See, what we have here is a situation where Lord Recluse is, to paraphrase ...ahem...the hero that Paragon needs, not the one it wants, but he can take it. A Dark Knight, a watchful guardian, a beacon of hope against the Battalion.

 

Mr. Spiderpants is our hero and savior?  

[Darmian]

5 minutes ago, gamingglen said:

 

Mr. Spiderpants is our hero and savior?  

Yep.

[TemporalVileTerror]

I do like the idea of exploring Lord Recluse now that Statesman is dead.  Like, what's he going to do with his life now?  He even got his old (un)dead girlfriend back.  Recluse's story is RIPE for picking!

 

But @Darmian and I did a whole thread about that already.

 

As for the Rikti . . . seriously, stop picking on them!  A whole race of peoples reduced to just an extremist group of militants?  That feels bad.  Not only that, but most of the Rikti we fight are just people from our own world who have been converted in to more Rikti!  That feels REALLY bad.  

I would like to see some more development of Rikti (re)integrating peacefully in to our societies . . . or at least trying.  Imagine a rehab centre for Rikti converts who are trying to reclaim their original lives.  There's a LOT of potential to explore there.

 

I'm not going to pre-haten on The Battalion; it's still largely a non-entity in the Lore.  If a skilled writer can tackle them with some interesting and engaging stories, and the mechanics back them up for ludonarrative resonance, then we'll be golden.  Just don't do what Paragon Studios was planning with the whole endless treadmill of pointless stories for pointless grind.  Make the stories meaningful.

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

Just don't do what Paragon Studios was planning with the whole endless treadmill of pointless stories for pointless grind.  Make the stories meaningful.

THIS!

[Faultline]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:24 PM, Marshal Valor said:

If not is there any chance we could get a conclusion to this story on Homecoming?

 

All I can say at this point is that there is a plan, but everybody involved knows how hyped this particular story arc was and wants to do it justice to the best of our abilities. This means keeping it backburnered until we have the experience, assets and mechanics to really sell it as the game-changer it's supposed to be.

[cranebump]

On 4/8/2021 at 1:18 PM, Grindingsucks said:

I'd like to see some folks tackle it as a series of AE missions. 

 

I had a different take on Battalion using AE. Spread it out over 50+ missions. Linked  it to the 7-year gap. Had exactly one person play the whole thing (@Darmian). Still think it was a novel approach, but pulled down the arcs to use the slots for other things. Might try a much shorter version of the same premise.

 

I can tell you I didn’t create “Battalion” at all. Battalion was a means to an end for a much more insidious cosmic entity, a thing that generated hostility and conflict among the world’s current denizens, then absorbed it (and them). The latter arcs had it basically devouring Incarnates, resulting in a world without them (obviously wish fulfillment—I’m on board with people who say the game is less fun at high levels). 

 

My 2 cents: bigger, buffer baddies is the least interesting thing you can do. There’s places players who want to push the math can go—they’re called AE farms. Hell, you can get “bigger, badder” by running TFs with the diff switches on. Good stories are about strong characters, twists, sacrifice, tough choices, strange bedfellows, hair-breadth ‘scapes i’ th’ imminent, deadly breach. THOSE things. I doubt the introduction of high level foes that will just get melted by increasingly tricked-out curbstompers is going to get you that. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by cranebump