Sorcery Pool Updates in Issue 27, Page 2

[Jimmy]

Changes in Release Candidate 2:

•  Spirit Ward
  • Fixed the initial burst applying again if LoS was broken and then restored
  • Fixed the refreshing absorb shield not applying if LoS was broken

[cohRock]

I brought over to Beta a level 38 dual-pistol/regen sentinel with concealment:stealth and a level 50 mercenary/force-field MM with all Sorcery Pool powers.  I liked the changes on both characters.  The difference between the improved Stealth power and the new Infiltration power is subtle, but distinctive.  Infiltration is essentially a travel power with some stealth and minor defense.  It is not something I would want to use in battle.  The new stealth with stronger invisibility is a battle power.  Probably the majority of existing Stealth users will also have a stealth proc, such as Celerity:Stealth in Sprint.  And the proc's stealth is additive to what the new Stealth offers, bringing the stealth radius from 55 to 85.  I don't know whether that will be effective against snipers.  I fly around PI for a while hoping to be sniped (without Sprint active), but I didn't come upon any snipers.  I was hoping to see if the 85-foot radius would make a difference.  It just occurred to me that I should have taken this level 38 guy to Crey's Folly, where there are plenty of Nemesis snipers of sufficient level.  I'll do that later.  Oh, another major difference between Stealth and Infiltration is that Stealth keeps its negative aggro rating, making foes less likely to attack him if their are other targets near.  Infiltration is not documented to have this feature, just the enhanced run and jump speed instead.

 

My MM loves the changes to Sorcery.  I had no idea that Sorcery would get major buffs, but I'm glad he is ready.  One of the Mercenary minions is a medic, but he cannot heal himself.  Placing the Spirit Ward toggle on him gives him (at level 48+1) an ongoing 42 HP heal (absorb) about every 3 seconds.  (I didn't check what it will be in Dark Astoria, where he will be level 48+5.)  So now it will be significantly easier keeping him alive as he helps keep the other 5 mercs alive.  Also made a toggle (with 60-second duration) is Enflame, a much-improved damage aura compared to the current one that only lasted 20 seconds.  Even when the toggle wears off, within seconds the power is re-available and you can apply it again.  None of my mercs are really melee guys, but my MM frequently teams, and so this will get lots of use!  Plus it can be applied to Big Bads directly, having them damage themselves and any of his nearby allies.  I haven't yet checked the "Arcane Power" attribute granted to Arcane Bolt, but any buff has got to be good, right?  Rune of Protection has received a subtle buff, with significantly decreased recharge time and somewhat decreased duration.  Adding in that recharge buffs won't affect it, percentage-wise, it appears to be a wash, but more frequent availability should make it a net positive.  And, oh yeah!, Mystic Flight is significantly faster and allows fine control when Hover active.   All in all, Sorcery should become a much more prevalent tool in players' arsenals.

 

--- added 90 minutes or so after original post --

1. It turns out that the new 55-ft radius of Concealment:Stealth +30-ft more radius from Celerity:Stealth are insufficient to stop snipers from seeing you.  Verified by taking my 38 Sentinel to Crey's Folly, and experimented with a level 39 Nemesis Comet.  He had no problem seeing me, even with the combined 85-ft radius.  I suspect this is by design, and I have no problems with it.  Expect to see a lot of Celerity:Stealth procs show up at the AH when i27p2 goes live.
2. Spirit Ward acts the same whether I am 50+1 and my Medic is 48+1, or I am 50+3 and he is 48+5.  In either case, activating Spirit Ward gives him an initial absorb of 210 HP, followed by 42 HP about every 3 seconds.  If he is not under attack, his health bar stabilizes with about 40% of it showing as absorb.

Edited April 20, 2021 by cohRock

[Myndwurx]

On 4/10/2021 at 7:50 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

 Spirit Ward

Spirit Ward is now a toggle, allowing you to fire-and-forget on a single teammate or pet. Reducing the recharge from 60s to 15s makes it easy to swap between different targets, and the up-front burst of absorption helps maintain the old reactive usage.

 

 

 

So, has anyone mentioned how SW cycles its "Ending Animation" multiple times when the toggle is ended? It's both very loud, and pretty annoying.

 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 7:50 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Detailed Patch Notes:

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Spirit Ward
  • This power is now a toggle which can be maintained on an allied target
    • 0.39/s endurance cost
  • Now provides a continually refreshing absorb shield for as long as the toggle is maintained
    • Each tick of the absorb shield lasts for 20s, meaning it will take 20s to max out or fully refresh the shield
  • The initial cast provides a burst of absorb shield
    • This initial burst is the equivalent of a 10s of the refreshing absorb shield
  • The strength of the Absorb shield now scales based on the caster's AT, rather than the target's health
    • ie: Defenders will apply a stronger shield (this is how all other ally buffs and heals work)
  • Cooldown reduced from 60s to 15s
•  Arcane Bolt
  • Cast time reduced from 2.07s to 1.73s
    • PvE damage unchanged, PvP damage updated according to the standard formula
  • If you own Arcane Bolt, any power or inspiration you use has a small chance to grant you an Arcane Power buff
    • Arcane Power will immediately recharge Arcane Bolt and cause it to deal double damage
    • Landing Arcane Bolt will consume Arcane Power (missing will not consume it)
    • Arcane Power will dissipate after 15 seconds if it hasn't been used
    • Arcane Power's visual effect can be customised at the tailor
    • Note: This mechanic is disabled in PvP
•  Mystic Flight
  • Now increases your fly speed cap by 50% while toggled on (from 58.6mph to 87.9mph)
    • This increased cap doesn't apply in PvP
  •  Mystic Flight > Translocation
    • Range increased from 300ft to 350ft
    • Cast time reduced from 2.07s to 1.57s
    • Endurance cost reduced from 13 to 9.75
•  Enflame
  • This power is now a timed toggle with a max duration of 60s
    • 0.52/s endurance cost
  • Cooldown reduced from 90s to 10s
  • Can now be used on targets in the air
  • The patch no longer causes enemies to run out of the area, but they may still flee if they feel harassed
  • VFX increased in size to more accurately reflect the full area of effect
  • Fixed dark and light customization options not spawning any VFX at all
  • Fixed numerous bugs which resulted in this power not benefiting from enhancements and procs
    • Procs are triggered by the toggle in a radius around the target, rather than by the patches left on the ground
•  Rune of Protection
  • Duration reduced from 90s to 60s
  • Cooldown reduced from 600s to 180s
  • Now ignores all recharge buffs, enhancements, and debuffs
    • No longer accepts recharge enhancements
  • Buff now applies immediately when the power begins activating, instead of 1s~ into the animation
  • Now grants damage resistance even if you use it whilst mezzed (previously only the mez protection component would be applied)
  • Fixed an issue which prevented the continuing VFX from playing

 

Please use this thread, not the main thread, to discuss these changes. Thank you!

 

 

[Wavicle]

12 minutes ago, Myndwurx said:

 

So, has anyone mentioned how SW cycles its "Ending Animation" multiple times when the toggle is ended? It's both very loud, and pretty annoying.

 

 

 

 

Yea, they're going to fix it.

[Thrax]

Can you turn the "Arcane Power" off?  I know you can change color and stuff at tailor but I'd prefer to just turn the pop up off altogether.  I barely use that power before and still don't.  

 

[Sovera]

After leveling three characters with Sorcery I must say the game of whack-a-mole with Spirit Ward and Enflame gets old fast. I'm not sure of the reason why Enflame has to be this hybrid of toggle and click where it needs to be reapplied like a click every 60 seconds but has an EPS during the duration, but it's not an interesting mechanic for sure, furthermore as the re-toggling needs to be done each time an elevator is taken. I would understand a change of maps and needing to re-apply, but not floors.

 

This means that:

 

A) It continues being a toggle and gets a stretchier leash so changing floors does not break it.

B) It becomes a click and changing floors does not matter.

 

Tweaking the numbers so the toggle is on all the time is much preferable since it avoids having to find our tank person and reapplying instead of playing the game. At this point I don't know why it was not made to be a 60 second buff like Inertial Reduction (which suffers from the same once-every-minute annoyance further multiplied since it is meant for the whole team and needs to be re-applied for the straggling team members).

 

 

Of Spirit Ward I have nothing but good things to say other than suffering from the same leash problems of Enflame. Same solutions in my opinion, with strong emphasis on a toggle we can cast and forget. Were it not for the restriction to only have four pools I would remove some of my inane whatever-shall-I-pick choices like Assault for Spirit Ward and throw it on one of my squishy team mates.

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:17 PM, America's Angel said:

Tell the hardcore to do the same, but build for recharge and procs instead of defense. Have them chug purple and red insps until they are softscapped for def and hardcapped for damage. (They can email themselves insps to do this. Also remember, you can buy bigger insps in the market/from luna in Ouroboros.)

 

Want to actually fix most of the problems this game has now, Devs? Stop people from doing exactly this.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Want to actually fix most of the problems this game has now, Devs? Stop people from doing exactly this.

Can you please support your implication that America’s Angel’s post constitutes a problem?

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Want to actually fix most of the problems this game has now, Devs? Stop people from doing exactly this.

Sounds like an odd suggestion to me.

 

You are implying that a player's playstyle, which has absolutely no tangible impact on you, or any other player,  is somehow the cause of any problem, let alone "most of the problems."

 

Am I reading that right? If you could provide any sort of evidence to support this claim, I would be appreciative. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Can you please support your implication that America’s Angel’s post constitutes a problem?

 

It's only a problem if you care about game balance, which, granted, seems not to be high on the majority's priorities.

 

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

You are implying that a player's playstyle, which has absolutely no tangible impact on you, or any other player,  is somehow the cause of any problem, let alone "most of the problems." 

 

I'm actually implying that it's an abuse of an exploit that should be corrected.

[Wavicle]

I don’t think it’s really one of the major problems, but I also wouldn’t be shocked if accessing email during combat was disallowed.

[Glacier Peak]

47 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm actually implying that it's an abuse of an exploit that should be corrected.

Okay. Well until someone with a colorful title says using the email system in game is an exploit, I'll reserve judgement. 

[arcane]

52 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

It's only a problem if you care about game balance, which, granted, seems not to be high on the majority's priorities.

I'm not sure how this is any more of a balance concern than IO's, incarnates, and what seems like a probably a pretty large number of other things. Would you encourage the developers to "stop people from doing exactly" those things too? And if not why not? I'm genuinely confused at why inspirations are specifically a high crime.

[aethereal]

27 minutes ago, arcane said:

I'm not sure how this is any more of a balance concern than IO's, incarnates, and what seems like a probably a pretty large number of other things. Would you encourage the developers to "stop people from doing exactly" those things too? And if not why not? I'm genuinely confused at why inspirations are specifically a high crime.

Inspirations are powerful!  A small purple inspiration is better than almost any defensive power in the game, during its duration.  It is negligibly cheap: killing a single minion at level 50 gives you like I don't know, enough to buy 100 or so of them?  If your inventory of insps were infinitely large, you could simply cap to-hit-chance, defense, damage, and damage resistance all the time for non-meaningful amounts of money.

 

So the balance point around insps is some combination of it being a little obnoxious to activate a bunch of them, and sharply limited inventory space.  The email trick vastly loosens your available inventory space, in a way that it seems very unlikely to have been intended for.  I'm not deeply invested in defining whether or not things are exploits, but it wouldn't be at all unreasonable to regard this as one, and, if one felt that it was a sufficiently commonly used exploit, to stop it (perhaps, as @Wavicle suggested, by disabling taking things from inventory while combat-flagged).

[arcane]

So to be clear, the issue is not with inspiration users (describes me) but just with users of some email trick (does not describe me)?

 

I'm curious as to how these people send so many emails quickly enough that such a thing could become time-efficient enough to actually be OP. If you're capping all of those stats at once, sounds like more time emailing than fighting to me. What a bore.

Edited May 13, 2021 by arcane

[archgemini24]

12 hours ago, arcane said:

So to be clear, the issue is not with inspiration users (describes me) but just with users of some email trick (does not describe me)?

 

I'm curious as to how these people send so many emails quickly enough that such a thing could become time-efficient enough to actually be OP. If you're capping all of those stats at once, sounds like more time emailing than fighting to me. What a bore.

 

I would imagine it would work like filling inspiration holders in an SG base with the inspirations you want, then just chain-replying to yourself while attaching one of the inspirations per email. To use during a fight or before a long-running event, just run the prep-work in advance? If not in an SG base, the Auction House is simply a slash-command away, and they could just buy a bunch on the market.

 

I would be bored to tears to do prep lots of inspirations that way, but for people who are running the game while watching TV or doing something else (like marketeering), it's just doing something else with the same time period. I admit I have stored some Large Lucks and a few "Rez Packs" that way.

Edited May 13, 2021 by archgemini24

[America's Angel]

Most of the  people who chain inspirations from their emails tends to be speedrunners. And the last event they ran had ~10-20 people taking part. So, I don't think it contributes in any significant way to any problems in the game right now. And a "fix" to it (making inspirations unclaimable if you're in/have been in combat) would negatively impact regular players who email themselves rez insps for when they die, or purple insps for when they're fighting bosses.

 

It's important to remember when talking about game balance, the focus will always be playing 1-50 on SOs. Level 50 fully IO'd/Incarnated/Inspiration-chugging players roflstomping +5/8 council missions, or clearing a fire farm map in 180s, or killing Hamidon in 30s, aren't really a balance concern. They're certainly not a problem that impacts the majority of players. (I.e. those who play 1-50 on SOs.)

 

Look at this thread for example. Rune was changed due to how it was played at 1-50 on SOs. Whether it was still chainable with hybrid for mez protection at level 50 wasn't really a factor in rebalancing it. The majority of the game isn't balanced around IOs/Incarnates/Inspirations, because those things don't have much of an impact on the majority of players. So, by definition any major problems to the game can't be due to these things.

 

That said, if the game was balanced around level 50 play with all the toys, then I'd probably agree that nerfing purple inspirations, red inspirations, judgement, lore, destiny's 10s/30s/90s buff, and Burn would be good for game balance (Why build for defense when I can buy a 50% def IO for 1 million?) Only exception here would be procs. Procs are fine as they are, and only seem otherwise because players can easilly use red inspirations to put themselves at the damage cap. (Take away red insps, and procs are a well-balanced trade-off in builds.) Specifically:  ST damage procs are fine, ST -res procs are fine, +end +heal +regen +recovery procs are fine, debuff procs are fine (we need more, if anything), FF procs are probably fine, Gaussian procs are fine outside of Build Up/Aim powers, AoE damage/debuff procs are mosty fine outside of a select few AoE powers like Burn/the rad armour heal, self-buffing/ATO procs triggering in AoE powers might need looking at (but that's case-by-case), and the tanker +absorb proc needs making mutually-exclusive with Superior Entomb's absorb proc.

Edited May 13, 2021 by America's Angel

[arcane]

Procs in Irradiated Ground are ofc absurd atm, but I understand the devs have stated recently that they will be looking at those.

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Procs in Irradiated Ground are ofc absurd atm, but I understand the devs have stated recently that they will be looking at those.

It could get the Enflame treatment. That power summoned a pet every 3s and was able to bypass a lot of the intent of a toggle power. Granted that same power was bugged prior to page 2 and hadnt been accepting enhancements since...late 2019?. The fact nobody reported that bug tells you how popular it was haha.

 

I would think Burn could get similar treatment as that's a power that has an initial damage effect and also summons a pseudopet, so you can get double procs from it on a single cast. 

 

I dont recall any other powers like that though, but if they exist, again, it wouldn't surprise me if they get looked at for their procs.

[UberGuy]

7 minutes ago, Bopper said:

would think Burn could get similar treatment as that's a power that has an initial damage effect and also summons a pseudopet, so you can get double procs from it on a single cast. 

 

Oh, it's much worse than that. It summons a pseudopet for every foe in range, and each can proc. So it's proc madness.

 

Fixing Burn should be super easy - Burn has a PBAoE damage effect plus burn patch summons, so the pet can simply be flagged not to proc at all. That way just the PBAoE will proc, and will do so based on its own cycle time, instead of the 10s activation time base Auto powers use.

[Glacier Peak]

20 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

Oh, it's much worse than that. It summons a pseudopet for every foe in range, and each can proc. So it's proc madness.

 

Fixing Burn should be super easy - Burn has a PBAoE damage effect plus burn patch summons, so the pet can simply be flagged not to proc at all. That way just the PBAoE will proc, and will do so based on its own cycle time, instead of the 10s activation time base Auto powers use.

Fixing burn!?!

 

 

😁

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, America's Angel said:

That said, if the game was balanced around level 50 play with all the toys, then I'd probably agree that nerfing purple inspirations, red inspirations, judgement, lore, destiny's 10s/30s/90s buff, and Burn would be good for game balance

 

2 hours ago, UberGuy said:

Oh, it's much worse than that. It summons a pseudopet for every foe in range, and each can proc. So it's proc madness.

 

Fixing Burn should be super easy - Burn has a PBAoE damage effect plus burn patch summons, so the pet can simply be flagged not to proc at all. That way just the PBAoE will proc, and will do so based on its own cycle time, instead of the 10s activation time base Auto powers use.

 

You both get away from Burn, I'll cut ya!

 

*brandishes butter knife!*

 

Seriously though, if Burn is 'fixed' I hope it gets a tweak because I've played Burn on SOs only and it's a mild hot breeze gently tickling mobs. We don't need more Hemorrhage 'fixes' that simply made the general recommendation being not to take it on ANY of the ATs.

 

Fixes like those I could do without.

[UberGuy]

Burn's patch does anemic damage. Burn's PBAoE effect, emitted directly from the user, is anything but anemic. I use it without a damage proc in it other than Assault Radial's Doublehit, and even when Assault is down, I have no complaints about Burn's ability to burn down even massed L54 bosses.

 

Completely separate from the proc thing, the fact that it spawns a bunch of patches will probably be fixed at some point, and if it is, I agree that the base patch probably should be tuned upwards in damage a bit. Not to the level it achieves with current target saturation, but more than just one patch currently.

 

But the fact that it summons multiple pets and can proc off of every one of them is way, way not intended. Like, no one (publicly at least) knew it was like that for years after it changed to its current design.

Edited May 13, 2021 by UberGuy

[aethereal]

I think that something that underlies a lot of disagreements and talking past each other is an implicit disagreement about the appropriate power level of the game.  Like, even among people who agree that the top-end power level should be brought down somewhat, or things that are borderline exploits nerfed, the question of how much is rarely explicitly discussed, but I think is really important.

 

So, right now, top-end tanks can solo ITF at +4/x8 with enemies buffed and players debuffed.  They can come close to doing it (can do it?) with no incarnates.  Let's say, for the sake of argument, that we think that's kind of crazy.

 

Should top-end tanks be able to solo ITF at +4/x8 without the enemies buffed/players debuffed, or only with T4 incarnates?
Should top-end tanks be able to solo ITF at +2/x4?

Should top-end tanks be able to solo ITF at +0/x1?

 

Reasonable people can disagree here!  But when it comes to questions of balance, it's really important.  Are we trying to cut off exploits (however defined), but keep power level otherwise mostly unchanged, maybe just even things out a bit?  Shave off a thin slice of the very most powerful end, but still allow people to operate at difficulty levels that are to some extent "not intended"?  Substantially nerf the top end?

[VashNKnives]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:36 PM, UberGuy said:

 

Oh, it's much worse than that. It summons a pseudopet for every foe in range, and each can proc. So it's proc madness.

 

Fixing Burn should be super easy - Burn has a PBAoE damage effect plus burn patch summons, so the pet can simply be flagged not to proc at all. That way just the PBAoE will proc, and will do so based on its own cycle time, instead of the 10s activation time base Auto powers use.

Isn't that like how Traps' poison trap used to act before the original devs fixed it. I know I was one of the complainers back when that was fixed... It was a bigger AoE and such... it was definitely not WAI but I and others loved the ability as it was. I recall it took some time to get over that fix and don't think some folks ever did, although that fix was the right thing to do.

 

Burn will likely cause a greater outcry as would some other fixes. I don't know where I would draw the line. I would prefer effective nerfs to be offset by buffs b/c people love feeling strong and pretty ... I don't envy the devs.