So I noticed something...

[CCCM89]

Right, so the Inherent power for Scrappers, Critical hit, seems to still be as it was in the original CoH, meanwhile stalkers get an expanded inherent with added crit chance.  Am I the only one in thinking that with the changes made since live when down, that the Scrapper inherent could use a bit of love, to?

[Dark Dove]

I think scrappers are really strong as they are.  Stalkers were brought up a lot, yes, but scrappers started out up here.  There are a lot of incentives to playing a Scrapper over a stalker, like access to powersets with taunt auras and less powers lost to Stalker AT-based powers (hide, placate, AS), higher HP, no combo mechanic baked in outside of the ATO, they're very straightforward and do their job well.

 

I think the only thing that feels off about Scrappers are the armor sets that don't have taunt auras, which over-incentivizes the sets that do have them.

[siolfir]

5 hours ago, CCCM89 said:

Am I the only one in thinking that with the changes made since live when down, that the Scrapper inherent could use a bit of love, to?

The Stalker changes were live before it went down, so there weren't any changes to mention beyond some powerset proliferation. Don't like it? Play a Stalker.

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, siolfir said:

The Stalker changes were live before it went down, so there weren't any changes to mention beyond some powerset proliferation. Don't like it? Play a Stalker.

 

 

It is simply amazing how many people stopped playing City of Heroes years prior to sunset, come back with Homecoming, and then blame/credit SCoRE and/or Homecoming with changes that were made prior to sunset.  But I digress. 

[BrandX]

I have no problem with how the Scrapper Critical Strikes works right now.  Scrappers with the inherent before there was an inherent 😛

[CCCM89]

Yeah, and here I thought I managed to last until just before it went down.  guess I missed a major update. 😛

 

Still, would love for more to be given to the scrapper inherent some time.

[Koopak]

So fun factoid about the Scrapper inherent, the power itself doesn't do anything. I'm sure this is well known by those who dig into the mechanics a lot, but the way Critical Hit works, is its actually an empty power and all Scrapper attacks have the critical chance worked directly into the power itself and use flags to communicate with the AT set procs if I'm not mistaken.

While i always love having a little something extra, i have to concur with the general response that its just not needed. Scrappers are in a very good spot due to their raw numbers and the power of crits.

[Shred Monkey]

I feel like scrappers are the "baseline" by which I compare everything else to.  For example... Stalkers have more ST damage then scrappers but in exchange give up hitpoints and AoE damage.   Tankers have lower damage overall then scrappers buy have more survivability and better taunting ability.   Blasters have more AoE damage potential then scrappers with larger ranges and Areas of effect, and their ST damage is about the same (varies by set), but they have less survivability from powers and instead have survivability from being at a ranged position.   I could go on, but my point is that logic basically implies assume scrappers are OK as is and shouldn't be adjusted.

 

However, with all that said... even though on live I played almost exclusively scrappers, now I don't play them at all.  Instead I tend to play blasters, stalkers, or my one tank.

 

[Murcielago]

The only love Scrappers need is having super strength ported over.

[tidge]

I seem to recall that back before IOs were a thing it was Scrappers that had folks declaring "Tankers are useless (because a Scrapper can do the same job)."

 

This is just my opinion, but for me when I think of a melee character concept I decide on the AT based on my anticipated play style and available power sets.

 

As for the actual topic of Inherents, I don't have a specific issue with the Scrapper inherent and I do worry whenever the topic comes up (usually in the context of radically changing Domination). Changing the Tanker inherent was (socially) messy (mostly because of Brutes, some because of Tankers) and specifically proposing a change because "Stalkers do it better (than Scrappers)" is sure to invite a lot of that sort of tension back.

 

The closest I feel comfortable to staking out an opinion on the Stalker/Scrapper divide (I play both) is that my feeling is that it is a Stalker ATO that is making most of the usual perceived effect in terms of damage output, and not the Stalker inherent per se. I'm of the opinion that there ought to be more exploration of the design space around enhancements as opposed to AT mechanics; I am NOT re-inviting the specific question about 'game balance and IOs', rather I think that we should recognize that the game has the possibility to add more 'flavor' to ATs by considering new/alternate Enhancements, particularly with ATOs (although can I get that PVP/Very Rare Fear set first?)

[ninja surprise]

Scrappers can slot the Chance for Crit proc and just about get crits on demand, on top of the random crits. It's quite beautiful.

[JayboH]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:35 PM, Murcielago said:

The only love Scrappers need is having super strength ported over.

Stone Melee?

 

...also, it's weird that armor damage auras on scrappers are the worst version for the melee ATs.  Tankers have larger AOEs, brutes get higher damage ticks due to fury.  Scrappers do not get crits on their damage auras.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 6/8/2021 at 4:29 PM, Shred Monkey said:

However, with all that said... even though on live I played almost exclusively scrappers, now I don't play them at all.  Instead I tend to play blasters, stalkers, or my one tank.

You and I are in a similar boat Shred. I played a lot of Scrappers on Retail, they (and Melee in general) took up the core of my roster for sure, but here on Homecoming I have found myself shifted away from that into other things like Defenders, a Tanker, Blasters, Sentinels, Corruptors. Heck I even have three Masterminds, and I hate MM's.

[Shred Monkey]

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

You and I are in a similar boat Shred. I played a lot of Scrappers on Retail, they (and Melee in general) took up the core of my roster for sure, but here on Homecoming I have found myself shifted away from that into other things like Defenders, a Tanker, Blasters, Sentinels, Corruptors. Heck I even have three Masterminds, and I hate MM's.

I tend to gravitate toward a certain set of min/max parameters... usually focused on pure damage with a minimum level of survivability.  During live, I really didn't play much that last 12-18 months, so I missed a lot of the late changes.   The quick-snipe and quick-assassin's strike, plus the blaster sustain powers really brought stalkers and blasters up to or above scrapper performance levels.  Those changes, plus winter set IOs really impacted the balance of the things I generally focus on.  It pushed me out of scrappers and into stalkers and blasters.  

 

note: I never did TW/Bio, even on homecoming.  When I see something that is both broken and popular, I take it as a personal challenge to outperform it using other sets instead of as an easy button I exploit myself. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Shred Monkey

[Haijinx]

On 6/16/2021 at 3:37 AM, JayboH said:

Stone Melee?

 

...also, it's weird that armor damage auras on scrappers are the worst version for the melee ATs.  Tankers have larger AOEs, brutes get higher damage ticks due to fury.  Scrappers do not get crits on their damage auras.

 

Nothing lives against Scrappers long enough for it to matter

[Veloice]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:37 AM, JayboH said:

Stone Melee?

 

I'd love Stone Melee on Scrappers - it's definitely one of my favourite sets in terms of feel. Imagining a Seismic Smash crit... 🥰

 

I can see why Scrappers don't have it because it's slow and hard-hitting, like super strength... and Scrappers were, I guess, nimble/Spider-Man types (or at least, I've seen that sentiment a lot). But Energy Melee is slow and hard-hitting, and while I do like that Brutes and Tankers have a melee set to call their own... I want my Stone Melee crits, too...

[Bill Z Bubba]

As long as seismic smash *properly* crits instead of a nerfed crit as they did with nrg melee, yes, please and thank you very much.

 

Course... what I *really want* is an earth assault scrapper.

[hejtmane]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:35 PM, Murcielago said:

The only love Scrappers need is having super strength ported over.

More taunt auras ok Ok I am greedy