Melee AT question

[Abomb4141]

When I first started back on homecoming about a year ago I made a scrapper because I was relatively new coming into the game again since live.  I love my first toon but since I've been thinking, stalkers have hide and the ability to hide during battle for critical hits AND they have just as good survivability as scrappers, then with brutes, they do a little bit less damage depending on the rage built up but have far superior survivability than scrappers, my understanding is they are second to only tanks.  So with all these thoughts I was wondering what makes a scrapper so special and set apart from these two "Villian" ATs?

Edited July 11, 2021 by Abomb4141

[Dark Dove]

Scrappers are simple and effective.  They have very slightly better to marginally better survivability compared to Stalkers (depends on the powerset), since Stalker secondaries lose a power for hide. They also often have access to slightly more AoE than Stalkers, and since AoE is very important in today's game, that matters sometimes.  Scrappers also have access to a few powersets with Taunt auras, which means mobs won't run away from some scrappers like they do for all stalkers.

 

Scrapper damage is basically always-on and requires nothing to get, where a brute has to do something (fury) to get to anywhere close to the damage of a scrapper. While they have a higher ceiling on damage resistance, and higher HP, Brutes don't actually have much higher numbers for base modifiers on their defenses, so they are equal to scrappers not considering the top end at a basic level defensively. Buffed, or built specifically for toughness, a Brute will be more survivable than a Scrapper for sure, but a Scrapper is still very even, simple and effective in comparison. Brutes also have a weird grandfathered issue of being considered an aggro control AT like a Tanker, and some players put the burden of being "the tank" on Brutes as much as Tankers, whether or not that's actually the purpose of a brute build.  You're rarely if ever expected to "tank" anything on a Scrapper, even though you can survive pretty well and also sometimes have aggro tools.

 

A Scrapper isn't "so special" and set apart from those two AT's, a scrapper is just different.  That's kind of the point of different AT's, to give you some variety to play and different roles to experience.  You'll never be expected to be able to stealth a mission as a Scrapper.  You'll never be expected to tank an incarnate trial either.  But if you want to do those things, there are AT's that you can play that will be expected to do those things, so enjoy!

 

I'm not big on playing Brutes (rather play a Tanker to tank and do AoE damage, or a Scrapper or Stalker to do actual damage) or Scrappers (rather play a Tanker for easy unkillable melee, rather play a Stalker for raw damage output) much anymore, but I see their merits and their purpose, and sometimes it's nice to play that Scrapper "I have no responsibility in this team so I can mash these buttons and watch things fall down" mentality.

[Hew]

29 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

Scrapper damage is basically always-on and requires nothing to get

Stalkers need fancy ATO IOs to really shine, and brutes are just always chasing fury to stay relevant. @Dark Dove is right on the money. Scrappers are tough, do not require outside anything to do damage, and are just easy to deal with.

[Shred Monkey]

1 hour ago, Abomb4141 said:

AND they have just as good survivability as scrappers

Stalkers have fewer hit points.   This makes them more vulnerable to hard hitting enemies, even with soft capped defenses.  It also gives them lower regen and smaller self heals since those are based on max hp.

 

Stalkers also have lower base damage, so the same attack from a stalker does less damage then a scrapper.  Stalkers also give up an AoE attack to get assassin's strike.

 

Personally, I prefer stalkers, but it's not true that there's no downside to counter their upside.

  

 

 

[Twisted Toon]

If I were to use a DnD analogy with the ATs...

I would say that the Brute would be analogous to the Barbarian,

the Tank would be the Fighter, (could switch the fighter and barbarian here)

the Stalker would be the Rogue,

and the Scrapper would be the Monk.

 

Monks are great at dishing damage and sometimes messing with an opponent (stunning strike) They aren't the best at wading into a group and surviving while laying the smack down.

[Tiger Shadow]

Barbarian's a race, I think you mean Berserker. Other than that, the analogy is spot on.

[Haijinx]

I think Brute survivability gets exaggerated.  They still only get 0.75 scaling on their armor sets. 

[Omega Force]

Like the others have said, Brutes have to rush from fight to fight to keep their damage up.  Scrappers don't care if you have to AFK for a few minutes, they're ready to go as soon as you are.

[ZorkNemesis]

2 hours ago, Tiger Shadow said:

Barbarian's a race, I think you mean Berserker. Other than that, the analogy is spot on.

 

Barbarians are definetly a class and not a race.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

[Tiger Shadow]

Lol, I was thinking of Everquest. Too many tabs open I guess.

[nihilii]

Scrappers truly shine with ATOs. Critical Strikes can turn you in a crit machine, especially if you use the PPM system to its fullest (put the proc in your slowest recharging attack, and don't slot any recharge in that power).

[ILIWAPCT]

If you love your Scrapper then there is no need to change.

It all depends on your playstyle.

 

Do you want to stalk, then play a stalker.

Do you want to scrap, then play a Scrapper.

Yes you can customize etc. but it really is that simple, which play style do you find fun?

 

Back on live Hero's were limited to Scrapper or Tank.

Villains were limited to Stalker's and Brutes.

 

[Abomb4141]

Hey, thanks for all the great responses and comments, guys!  I was having the conversation with my brother just a few minutes ago before I checked back in to the forum.  The simplest summary we came up with was 

Scrappers: go, go, go

Stalkers: hide, hide, hide

Brutes: aggro, aggro, aggro

 

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Abomb4141 said:

Scrappers: go, go, go

Stalkers: hide, hide, hide

Brutes: aggro, aggro, aggro

Aussies: Oi, Oi, Oi

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Abomb4141 said:

Hey, thanks for all the great responses and comments, guys!  I was having the conversation with my brother just a few minutes ago before I checked back in to the forum.  The simplest summary we came up with was 

Scrappers: go, go, go

Stalkers: hide, hide, hide

Brutes: aggro, aggro, aggro

 

 

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Aussies: Oi, Oi, Oi

 

Blasters: This dirt tastes funny

Tanks: Who cares, I ain't dyin.

[Snarky]

13 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

Blasters: This dirt tastes funny

Tanks: Who cares, I ain't dyin.

Brute: That ain't dirt.

[Heraclea]

Of all the melee ATs, I tend to prefer the classic scrapper.  With two caveats: the scrapper needs to have a secondary that has at least a mild taunt aura, and be defemse based.  Scrappers have the same 45% defense cap as everyone else, but with a resistance set they have a 75% limit where tankers and brutes have 90%, a noticeable drop off.  Willpower is the set that tests the rule; it has enough going for it that it doesn't need to hit any softcaps.  Secondaries like Shield and Energy shine on scraooers.  

[Seed22]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:45 PM, Abomb4141 said:

Hey, thanks for all the great responses and comments, guys!  I was having the conversation with my brother just a few minutes ago before I checked back in to the forum.  The simplest summary we came up with was 

Scrappers: go, go, go

Stalkers: hide, hide, hide

Brutes: aggro, aggro, aggro

 

Waitaminute what stalker( bad ones obviously) says hide hide hide?

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Waitaminute what stalker( bad ones obviously) says hide hide hide?

 

Yeah, I didn't get that one either.  Stalkers don't really have a distinct playstyle from Scrappers.  Most of the time, they both just... scrap.  What's different about them has little to do with playstyle outside of occasionally doing the melee snipe from Hide as your first attack.  Aside from that, it's generally true that Stalkers do better single-target damage and Scrappers do better area damage, but even then there are exceptions.

[Abomb4141]

Stalkers can force critical hits if they are hidden, hence the AT Enhancement proc, if played well with placate and hide techniques a stalker can really elevate it's already high single target damage

[Myrmidon]

You have one thousand character slots available, so I would say try all of them.