Price of enhancements

[DrZeus]

I am curious what people find are the most expensive non-purple enhancements.  I've been surprised at trying to sell some enhancements only to have them sell for a surprisingly low amount (assuming I want an immediate sale).  Something like positron's blast might only sell for half a million while basilisk's gaze sold for two million.  Defense sets are said to sell well, but some more than others obviously.  Is there a pattern to look for, or do people often just go with what they know to be mean prices and not do the immediate sale?

[iBot]

Probable best to ask this in the Market section.  Rule of thumb I use: if the set can be used by a wide range of ATs and combos it will probably sell for more.  Same goes for if the bonuses it gives are more desirable for a build than those offered by the other sets in the same category.  There are also in demand sets at certain level break points because some use those to play converter roulette to get to the more expensive sets.

 

Personally, I don't ever list anything under what I would accept as a sale price.  If I have to wait a day or two for it to sell then so be it.  There are a lot on the AH that put in low bids for popular things just to snipe the item when someone else places one on the AH for a "sell now" low price.

[Bionic_Flea]

The great and confounding thing about the CoH market is that it really is a market and is governed, in large part, by supply and demand.  Because it is a real market ruled by supply and demand the prices can vary wildly in a day, a week, or over longer periods.

 

For example, when I first came to the server I tried to sell Achilles Heel -res proc, knowing that is is a valuable, desirable piece wanted by many builds but only available at low levels.  To my surprise it was selling for a few hundred thousand at most, frequently for only a few thousand.  But then there were several forum threads about proc builds and DPS builds and demand for these shot up.  More recently it has been selling for about 5 million.  But occasionally you'll see a sale for 2 million-ish.

 

Other sets that normally sell for 2 - 3 million, let's say pieces from Aegis or Unbreakable Guard, can suddenly spike as high as 10 million when there are only a handful left in the supply.  That frequently happens on the weekend when more people have a chance to play.  More people playing is more players demanding.  An item that routinely sells for 2 million on Monday may sell for 5 million on Sunday.

 

The things that are the most expensive are the things that lots of people want but are very rare, hard to find, perhaps they only drop in certain content, or don't drop at all.  The prices rise and fall with supply and demand.

[Blackbird71]

42 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

The great and confounding thing about the CoH market is that it really is a market and is governed, in large part, by supply and demand.  Because it is a real market ruled by supply and demand the prices can vary wildly in a day, a week, or over longer periods.

 

This; supply and demand are everything in the CoH market.  When buying enhancements or listing them to sell, pay attention to the number of bids and sales.  If the numbers are similar, the price should be close to an equilibrium.  However, if there are several times more units being sold than bids, you can probably get away with a lower price.  The counter of course being that if the bids greatly outnumber the units available for sale then the price will go higher.

I find paying attention to popular builds of the time a good way to gauge enhancement demand; enhancements used frequently in builds (particularly individual IOs or sets that get used multiple times in a single build) tend to go up in price.

[Sakai]

Discounting PvP, ATOs and the winter stuff...Overwhelming Forces KB to Kd, LoTGs and Steadfast + Def are all solid earners. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sakai

[Sakai]

Then again some of the Hami Os are pretty pricey as well. 

[ZorkNemesis]

1 hour ago, Sakai said:

Then again some of the Hami Os are pretty pricey as well. 

 

Cytoskeletons routinely go for well over 20mil, probably more.

[ForeverLaxx]

36 minutes ago, ZorkNemesis said:

 

Cytoskeletons routinely go for well over 20mil, probably more.

Any particular reason Cytos are so pricey? I get that they're the +Def/+ToHit/-End HamiO, but I have a hard enough time getting the right set bonuses in the powers I'm already using. Having "free" slots for HamiOs outside of powers that don't take sets still seems strange to me. Other than the relative rarity of a HamiO and this particular ones usefulness, I just don't see why it'd be upwards of 20mil in today's build market.

[ZorkNemesis]

6 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Any particular reason Cytos are so pricey? I get that they're the +Def/+ToHit/-End HamiO, but I have a hard enough time getting the right set bonuses in the powers I'm already using. Having "free" slots for HamiOs outside of powers that don't take sets still seems strange to me. Other than the relative rarity of a HamiO and this particular ones usefulness, I just don't see why it'd be upwards of 20mil in today's build market.

 

I'm not a build expert, but my understanding is that there are certain powers that benefit heavily from them, so much that they're often used in place of sets.  Powers that can benefit from all three components are a big deal.  Maybe someone else has a better answer, but I honestly think it's just how strong it is being able to slot all three in one slot is what makes them so valuable.

[ForeverLaxx]

4 minutes ago, ZorkNemesis said:

 

I'm not a build expert, but my understanding is that there are certain powers that benefit heavily from them, so much that they're often used in place of sets.  Powers that can benefit from all three components are a big deal.  Maybe someone else has a better answer, but I honestly think it's just how strong it is being able to slot all three in one slot is what makes them so valuable.

I guess, but you can get much the same from split-aspect IOs (granted those IOs aren't full SO-level in each aspect like a HamiO).

 

I can see it for powers that normally don't allow recharge slotting getting access to it by slotting a HamiO. Beyond that, though? Maybe it's my build philosophy that's off or something, but when I put something together based on the set bonuses I'm looking for, the powers in question are often approaching, or way over, the ED "redline".

I'm not questioning that they'd be expensive, I'm just trying to figure out why. Perhaps a question for another time in another place.

[Sovera]

13 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Any particular reason Cytos are so pricey? I get that they're the +Def/+ToHit/-End HamiO, but I have a hard enough time getting the right set bonuses in the powers I'm already using. Having "free" slots for HamiOs outside of powers that don't take sets still seems strange to me. Other than the relative rarity of a HamiO and this particular ones usefulness, I just don't see why it'd be upwards of 20mil in today's build market.

 

They are rare. First Hami needs to be killed, then of the big pool of Hami-Os the right now has to drop. At most people will kill Hami twice a day (so four kills total). That's really really small compared to killing hundreds of NPCs during an TF or farm.

 

They also give the best numbers even better than purples (if +3-ing the Hamis) so for maximum min maxing they can come into play. Though the casual player won't notice, and with the way combat is set I doubt outside of spreadsheets we can even notice a difference. $Deity knows that using the exact build with the exact rotation can give differences of 30 seconds so 10% damage difference just gets swallowed.

[Sakai]

3 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

 

Cytoskeletons routinely go for well over 20mil, probably more.

The price of this one seems to be on a 6-8 week cycle. Bottoms out around 25 million, which has more or less just passed, and tops at 50ish but mainly hovers in the low 40s. Good money to be had if you are so inclined 😉 and if you want to just save some money wait a few weeks. 

 

Hami's are versatile and add some added oomph to builds with an extra slot to spare in a few directions at once. Plus they can be combined to make 53s which have great bonuses. Be warned though that the combination process can fail.  I was unaware of this. 😔

[carroto]

13 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Any particular reason Cytos are so pricey?

 

Probably at least in part because a lot of people haven't figured out that a level 50 dual aspect IO if boosted to +5 has the same enhancement values as a level 50 HO.  Unless you're combining HOs to past level 50 for that little bit extra, there's no advantage to the HO unless the power it's in can actually benefit from the other aspects it may enhance.

 

If people were more aware of this I suspect that the price of a level 50 dual-aspect IO + 5 enhancement boosters would be a sort of soft cap on the price of equivalent HOs.

[Snarky]

The price varies with market swings

 

ps please stop cornering the market and flipping.  Damned irritating to folks just trying to game

[DreadShinobi]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:09 AM, DrZeus said:

I've been surprised at trying to sell some enhancements only to have them sell for a surprisingly low amount (assuming I want an immediate sale). 

Fortune comes to those who can wait

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

Fortune comes to those who can wait

DreadShinobi makes a small income writing fortune cookies as a side biz

[Ukase]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:09 AM, DrZeus said:

I am curious what people find are the most expensive non-purple enhancements.  I've been surprised at trying to sell some enhancements only to have them sell for a surprisingly low amount (assuming I want an immediate sale).  Something like positron's blast might only sell for half a million while basilisk's gaze sold for two million.  Defense sets are said to sell well, but some more than others obviously.  Is there a pattern to look for, or do people often just go with what they know to be mean prices and not do the immediate sale?

Each of us "ebil marketers" have our own methodology that may be unique when it comes to pricing. 

For me, Immediate sale = foolish. What's your rush? We have alts we can play while we wait for that IO/recipe/salvage to sell for a "fair" price. 

So, what's fair? It varies from person to person. For me, [Crafting cost + salvage cost (at buy now prices) + recipe cost (buy now price)] + (70k*15) = breakeven price. Add a little bit for profit. 

As an example: 

level 50: Mako's Bite recipe dropped on my afk-farmer. 
Cost of crafting: 490,400  
Salvage cost: for my farmer - zero. but there is opportunity cost - I could just sell the salvage at 6 inf and get the highest bid out at that time. 
    Recipe: Spirit Thorn - common 250
                 Silver - common 250
                 Thorn Tree Vine - uncommon 2000  (sketchy prices in this area lately - could maybe get 20k, lol) 
                 Magical Conspiracy - Rare - 500k (..prices creeping up a bit lately) 
 

Total: 490,400
          500,000

              2,000

                 250

                 250

         992,900 
+  1,050,000

     2,042,900 

The 1,050,000 comes from an average use of 15 converters per IO to get one that sells at a decent price over a decent amount of time. It's an opportunity cost. I could just sell the converters and get that much all day, every day. Instead, I spend the time to use them and turn that Mako's bite into something that sells for more, and more quickly. 

 

 Mako's Bite: Damage/Recharge successfully converted to Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance.  1 converter used. 
 Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance successfully converted to Unbounded Leap: Endurance.  1 converter used. 

 Unbounded Leap: Endurance successfully converted to Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy.  1 converter used. 

 Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy successfully converted to Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit.   1 converter used.

 Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit successfully converted to Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge. 1 converter used.  (Ouch, same trash!)

 Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance.  1 converter used.

 Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance successfully converted to Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance.  1 converter used.  (now we're getting somewhere) 
  Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge.  2 converters used. 

 Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge. 3 converters used.

 Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance. 3 converters used. 

Now, it's just a coincidence that I used 15 converters. Sometimes, it's 1 or 2, sometimes more than 15. 15 is just the average. 
So, now I list it at a price that people seem willing to pay. 4-5M. It may sell for more. It may not sell right away. But usually by the next crafting session, it sells. 

If it had turned into an Oblit, or a perf shifter +end, I'd list it for a bit less than 3M, to cover my costs (and opportunity costs) and Auction House fees. 

I think it's fair. Don't like it - bid lower and wait longer. Or make your own. 

          

[SmalltalkJava]

What @Ukase just said.   Nice post on how to convert nothing into something.

[Ukase]

20 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Any particular reason Cytos are so pricey? I get that they're the +Def/+ToHit/-End HamiO, but I have a hard enough time getting the right set bonuses in the powers I'm already using. Having "free" slots for HamiOs outside of powers that don't take sets still seems strange to me. Other than the relative rarity of a HamiO and this particular ones usefulness, I just don't see why it'd be upwards of 20mil in today's build market.

I'm in agreement, in the sense that I don't get why anyone would even pay for a Cyto, let alone the fact that I've seen the level 53's sell (if I believe the AH history) for 320M. I am thinking it was an extra zero type of thing. 

But, I'm one who abhors the use of Hamidon enhancements. Sure, they can fill a need in certain builds. But the idea of attending raid, after raid, after raid vs paying some truly outrageous price for one...I'll stick with my set bonus IOs, thanks. Glad we have options! 

Early today, while teaming with the SG, the old topic that many love to get into fights over - knockback - came up. We were smarter than most and laughed more than complained about it. My theory was, "The people that complain about KB are the ones that are selling the KB->KD IOs in the market."  Part of a Nemesis plot, to be sure. 

 

I say that, to say this: Often times, aside from "AH glitch pricing history" where SOs seem to sell for many millions of inf, from time to time, an ebil marketer will see, for example, 30 enhancements in the Hami-O class listed for sale. That marketer will buy all of them as cheaply as he can, then he will knowingly take a loss as he has an alt buy 5 of them for a truly outrageous price, in hopes of snaring the next mark into over-paying, and hoping the cycle continues until all of them are sold. It probably works for only a few, but depending on the price he initially paid, it may only take one or two to break even. 

It will almost always pay to be patient. As I've gotten accustomed to saying recently - it's why we have so many slots for alternate characters! So we can place lower/reasonable bids, and then do something else while we wait for them to fill. 
 

[Doomguide2005]

     There's a handful of places that I know of where I might use Cytoskeletons.  Invulnerability's Invincibility comes to mind.  I don't know anything about the price of Membranes but I have used those in Fortitude.  Those (Membranes) are probably the only HOs I've personally used since i16 or so --> Two Membranes and a LotG 7.5% recharge.  When your running RA and on a defender looking to max recharge those set bonuses on LotG aren't even close to worth it with 3 or less slots going to Fort.

[DreadShinobi]

I'd say the price is less relative to their usefulness and mote relatable to their opportunity cost. 

 

If you have a reward table open that offers hamidon enhancements, you are also offered reward merits. You cannot get a hamidon enhancement in which you are not giving up a certain amount of reward merits. Technically the lord recluse strike offers the lowest sacrifice in reward merit gain by choosing a hamidon enhancement, followed by the stf/mltf, followed by a hamidon raid. The hami raid is often done back to back and some people may opt to choose a hami enhancement more frequently on the second round rather than logging the character out to select after the 20 hr cd. 

 

Regardless, in order to populate the existence of hamidon enhancements, reward merits are sacrificed. Reward merits offer a consistent standard value. They are more widely usable. Choosing a hamidon enhancement is a risk/gamble and you may be giving up 40 reward merits for a worthless hami-O. 

 

If youre looking to farm hami-O, run some more LRSF. It is generally a very fast tf. It can be done exceptionally fast with some intention set by the team. It offers a low amount of reward merits compared to other hami reward tables.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:06 PM, Ukase said:

Each of us "ebil marketers" have our own methodology that may be unique when it comes to pricing. 

For me, Immediate sale = foolish. What's your rush? We have alts we can play while we wait for that IO/recipe/salvage to sell for a "fair" price. 

So, what's fair? It varies from person to person. For me, [Crafting cost + salvage cost (at buy now prices) + recipe cost (buy now price)] + (70k*15) = breakeven price. Add a little bit for profit. 

As an example: 

level 50: Mako's Bite recipe dropped on my afk-farmer. 
Cost of crafting: 490,400  
Salvage cost: for my farmer - zero. but there is opportunity cost - I could just sell the salvage at 6 inf and get the highest bid out at that time. 
    Recipe: Spirit Thorn - common 250
                 Silver - common 250
                 Thorn Tree Vine - uncommon 2000  (sketchy prices in this area lately - could maybe get 20k, lol) 
                 Magical Conspiracy - Rare - 500k (..prices creeping up a bit lately) 
 

Total: 490,400
          500,000

              2,000

                 250

                 250

         992,900 
+  1,050,000

     2,042,900 

The 1,050,000 comes from an average use of 15 converters per IO to get one that sells at a decent price over a decent amount of time. It's an opportunity cost. I could just sell the converters and get that much all day, every day. Instead, I spend the time to use them and turn that Mako's bite into something that sells for more, and more quickly. 

 

 Mako's Bite: Damage/Recharge successfully converted to Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance.  1 converter used. 
 Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance successfully converted to Unbounded Leap: Endurance.  1 converter used. 

 Unbounded Leap: Endurance successfully converted to Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy.  1 converter used. 

 Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy successfully converted to Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit.   1 converter used.

 Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit successfully converted to Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge. 1 converter used.  (Ouch, same trash!)

 Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance.  1 converter used.

 Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance successfully converted to Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance.  1 converter used.  (now we're getting somewhere) 
  Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge.  2 converters used. 

 Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge. 3 converters used.

 Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance. 3 converters used. 

Now, it's just a coincidence that I used 15 converters. Sometimes, it's 1 or 2, sometimes more than 15. 15 is just the average. 
So, now I list it at a price that people seem willing to pay. 4-5M. It may sell for more. It may not sell right away. But usually by the next crafting session, it sells. 

If it had turned into an Oblit, or a perf shifter +end, I'd list it for a bit less than 3M, to cover my costs (and opportunity costs) and Auction House fees. 

I think it's fair. Don't like it - bid lower and wait longer. Or make your own. 

          

 

Nice write-up!  I differ slightly on my budgeting (generally budget 10 converters *on average*, I value converters at 66,666 or 1mm for 15, and I will generally sell anything that will gross 2mm or above), but your converting chain is dead on what I would have done.  

[Col. Kernel]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:06 PM, Ukase said:

Each of us "ebil marketers" have our own methodology that may be unique when it comes to pricing. 

For me, Immediate sale = foolish. What's your rush? We have alts we can play while we wait for that IO/recipe/salvage to sell for a "fair" price. 

So, what's fair? It varies from person to person. For me, [Crafting cost + salvage cost (at buy now prices) + recipe cost (buy now price)] + (70k*15) = breakeven price. Add a little bit for profit. 

As an example: 

level 50: Mako's Bite recipe dropped on my afk-farmer. 
Cost of crafting: 490,400  
Salvage cost: for my farmer - zero. but there is opportunity cost - I could just sell the salvage at 6 inf and get the highest bid out at that time. 
    Recipe: Spirit Thorn - common 250
                 Silver - common 250
                 Thorn Tree Vine - uncommon 2000  (sketchy prices in this area lately - could maybe get 20k, lol) 
                 Magical Conspiracy - Rare - 500k (..prices creeping up a bit lately) 
 

Total: 490,400
          500,000

              2,000

                 250

                 250

         992,900 
+  1,050,000

     2,042,900 

The 1,050,000 comes from an average use of 15 converters per IO to get one that sells at a decent price over a decent amount of time. It's an opportunity cost. I could just sell the converters and get that much all day, every day. Instead, I spend the time to use them and turn that Mako's bite into something that sells for more, and more quickly. 

 

 Mako's Bite: Damage/Recharge successfully converted to Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance.  1 converter used. 
 Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance successfully converted to Unbounded Leap: Endurance.  1 converter used. 

 Unbounded Leap: Endurance successfully converted to Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy.  1 converter used. 

 Force Feedback: Knockback/Accuracy successfully converted to Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit.   1 converter used.

 Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit successfully converted to Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge. 1 converter used.  (Ouch, same trash!)

 Mako's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance.  1 converter used.

 Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance successfully converted to Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance.  1 converter used.  (now we're getting somewhere) 
  Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge.  2 converters used. 

 Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge. 3 converters used.

 Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge successfully converted to Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance. 3 converters used. 

Now, it's just a coincidence that I used 15 converters. Sometimes, it's 1 or 2, sometimes more than 15. 15 is just the average. 
So, now I list it at a price that people seem willing to pay. 4-5M. It may sell for more. It may not sell right away. But usually by the next crafting session, it sells. 

If it had turned into an Oblit, or a perf shifter +end, I'd list it for a bit less than 3M, to cover my costs (and opportunity costs) and Auction House fees. 

I think it's fair. Don't like it - bid lower and wait longer. Or make your own. 

          

No one's referring to what you do as "ebil marketterring".  It's the flippers who add NOTHING to the market and simply drive prices up for no reason that I hate.

[Sovera]

As someone who did flipping (feeling dirty while doing it, but intent in paying for my sub with Auction House gold despite Blizz's efforts at making everything worthless (alas, Legion)) I can fully agree flippers add nothing to the economy. Grabbing what people posted a bit more cheap to sell faster (or because unaware) and then sell it again for 20% more is as useless to the economy as it gets.

 

At least crafters (as our 'ebil marketer' above) will grab materials from those who farmed them but can't be arsed to turn them into their end product, then go through that menial grind and then ask for payment.

 

Fortunately such here is a bit of a non entity. While it is no longer something like 30-40 miillion a day on one hour (half hour for a Tinpex, half an hour for an Hami raid), it is still about 22-23 mill to do the above nowadays. So we can always buy at least one purple a day on one hour play time. Or one purple every two days on half an hour a day playtime.

 

In two weeks without pushing it a build is complete. And that's if we're not playing more. A single 'kill most' ITF will make around 10-15 million raw inf, and then the merits, and then whatever dropped, so nearly another purple.

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, Col. Kernel said:

No one's referring to what you do as "ebil marketterring".  It's the flippers who add NOTHING to the market and simply drive prices up for no reason that I hate.

Here's what we do about those people. We stop selling IOs at 1 inf, 6 inf and other ridiculously low prices. If we can all agree to sell them all for precisely 2M, no more, no less, then those people will have to pay a fair price for them, and when they try to re-sell them for more, they get stuck holding the goods. 

With the way the market works, that is really the only way. 

The problem is these lazy people who can't be bothered to sell items for a fair price. They want to be fast, and they think they're being nice - but it's what we call "noob traps" that usually snare those cheap sales. Stop the laziness. Stop the perception of being kind. Sell the damn thing for 2m, so those people can be hurt in their profit margin. That'll show 'em! 

 

As much as I'd like to seriously suggest we all do this - I fully recognize that someone here would dare to sell their items for less to get the first sale, then someone else would be jealous and then list a lower price. Next thing you know, we'd have competition! 

Yeah, I'm being a bit obnoxious. Sorry, I'll stop. 
I get what you're saying. The problem is, I don't have a solution that will work long term.