The cycle ending, and beginning again...?

[Black Talon]

The article linked below details a number of problems that World of Warcraft has, is, and will probably continue to experience over the foreseeable future.  I won't repeat too many of the details contained therein, leaving that up to individual readers to divine, but the fact of the matter is that the anticipated mass departure from WoW might, just might, end up having some effect on City of Heroes Homecoming.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58017429?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

As I've noted in a number of previous posts, I have little to no experience in MMPOGs aside from City of Heroes; as Pixie_Knight has articulated, very clearly, the fantasy games seem to experience a plague of repetitive character classes, settings and storylines, and any such experience I want to have, I'll drag out the Castles & Crusades or first-edition AD&D Core books and have a blast doing the pen-and-paper-with-dice bit.  I don't know, to what extent, WoW may or may not have either played off previous tropes, created new ones - or both - in the online setting, but the point is that WoW ain't a unique experience now, if it ever was; the revelations about Final Fantasy XIV's phoenix-like rebirth following a disastrous debut indicate that many are migrating toward that online RPG for their sword-and-sorcery entertainment.

 

The reason I'm starting this thread in the first place is that, with the anticipated diaspora from WoW, I think there may be a chance that CoH Homecoming will end up grabbing some of the players who are looking for a gaming experience that veers off the fantasy model.  The "legacy" projects that initiated in the wake of CoH's shutdown in November 2012 have, to the best of my knowledge, gone into developmental hiatus, and thus there are no other resources for any who might be interested in trying the superhero genre.  I'd be interested in knowing if the Homecoming crew have been informed about these developments, and what plans, if any, they may have made to deal with, or even encourage, a possible influx of homeless WoW children.  And what does the population here think about the occurrences at Blizzard Entertainment, and do the people here see the WoW empire disintegrating, Roman style?  Might there be a resurgence of interest in CoH that results in not only its maintenance and continuation for an indefinite time to come, but actual software development and technical upgrades?  Pleased to know about the gang's reaction here.

[Miss Magical]

I do not think CoH private servers will experience any long or even medium term growth due to the issues that plague WoW.

• Many WoW fans enjoy content that this game does not have or does not excel in, such as high difficulty raids/dungeons and PvP.
• WoW fans are used to systems that this game doesn't have, group finder being the most obvious one.
• This game has too many quirks that modern MMO gamers will find jarring, such as speed being reduced after an attack, inability to move while attacks are animating, lack of auto-attack (note: not the green circle autopower feature), the "blind auction" marketplace, etc.

[TombTyrant]

I'm inclined to agree. Obviously when you talk about so many players, you will have exceptions, but by and large our demographics do not overlap.

[Gemini2099]

Some WoW players are gravitating toward games like FF with friendly and cooperative communities.  So I can see some WoW refugees discovering that CoX is a gem with a great community!!!

[Omega Force]

5 hours ago, Black Talon said:

... there are no other resources for any who might be interested in trying the superhero genre. 

There are two others: Champions Online, and DC Universe Online.  Both are legal and free to play, and DCUO has steadily ongoing development.

[Snarky]

Everyone above might be right....   The diaspora (if any) might have a significant impact on Homecoming CoH AND the diaspora of WoW players will largely ignore CoH.

 

Because Homecoming is a corner grocery market and WoW is Wal-Mart.  Any shift of a few hundred people starting to shop regularly at the corner market has a huge impact on that market. But in comparison to the WoW diaspora it will be statistically insignificant.

[SuperPlyx]

This made me wonder, is there anything at all being done to promote recruiting new players? 

As an outsider looking in my impression was "The Talks™" kept or curtailed the current leaders from advertising or recruiting. 

Hard to get new players if they have no idea you exist.

[Rathulfr]

Having played both WoW and FFXIV, I can tell you that most folks migrating from WoW to FF are doing so because FFXIV is very similar to WoW.  Tab-targeting, gear-based rewards, skills/talent progressions, NPC-driven quest lines, dungeons & raids, etc. all contribute to FFXIV feeling like WoW, except with a weeaboo style and moe avatars.

 

But of course, I think that is by design: if you recall, FFXIV started out badly, and had to make significant changes in its first few years to attract western audiences.  It did so by mimicking WoW, plain and simple.  So what makes FFXIV successful today is the same as what made WoW successful in the first place.

 

CoH has never/will never scratch the same itch that afflicts WoW players.  It didn't in 2004, and it won't in 2021.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Rathulfr

[iBot]

53 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

CoH has never/will never scratch the same itch that afflicts WoW players.  It didn't in 2004, and it won't in 2021.

I think this sums it up.  I remember the exodus from CoH when WoW came online.  The big draw then from what I gathered was the PvP something that CoH didn't have at that time.  Even when it was added later few came back.  I'm not saying this was the entire reason, but I think the players from WoW are looking for things that CoH doesn't provide.

[A Cat]

5 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

This made me wonder, is there anything at all being done to promote recruiting new players? 

As an outsider looking in my impression was "The Talks™" kept or curtailed the current leaders from advertising or recruiting. 

Hard to get new players if they have no idea you exist.

What is the current legal status anyway? I honestly have no idea. 

[Rathulfr]

45 minutes ago, iBot said:

I think this sums it up.  I remember the exodus from CoH when WoW came online.  The big draw then from what I gathered was the PvP something that CoH didn't have at that time.  Even when it was added later few came back.  I'm not saying this was the entire reason, but I think the players from WoW are looking for things that CoH doesn't provide.

 

I prove that myself: I still play both CoH and WoW, for entirely different reasons.  I play CoH because I love it for myself -- it's my "thing".  However, I have family and friends that prefer WoW, so I play WoW also, because I love them enough to join them.  I've been playing both, off and on, since 2004.

 

[Triumphant]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

Everyone above might be right....   The diaspora (if any) might have a significant impact on Homecoming CoH AND the diaspora of WoW players will largely ignore CoH.

 

Because Homecoming is a corner grocery market and WoW is Wal-Mart.  Any shift of a few hundred people starting to shop regularly at the corner market has a huge impact on that market. But in comparison to the WoW diaspora it will be statistically insignificant.

 

This could be correct.  I guess we'll see.  Most people looking to try something new would rather go forwards than backwards, though- and so I think they will not arrive at City of Heroes unless they exhaust other, more modern options.  The next year or so should give us an idea of what (if any) impact there may be.

[dangeraaron10]

WoW players that leave for new MMOs are likely going to concentrate on FFXIV as the closest competitor and filter out to others like ESO, GW2 and New World.  

 

HCs population will only decline from here.  The CoX enthusiasts will remain in on and off again play but you can only play the same game over and over before moving on.  That or go to other CoX servers that actually adds new stuff and tries new things.

[GM Crumpet]

I tried WoW and hated it with a passion. And I know dedicated WoW players who hated CoX with a passion. The two demographics don't necessarily have that much of an overlap. The only overlap is DCU and CO players tend to migrate to CoX and find it a more satisfying experience. They look pretty, have differing power sets and storylines, but there is something missing that is hard to quantify. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

23 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

CoH has never/will never scratch the same itch that afflicts WoW players.  It didn't in 2004, and it won't in 2021.

Quoted for being the ever lovin' truth.

[skoryy]

18 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

They look pretty, have differing power sets and storylines, but there is something missing that is hard to quantify. 

 

Not that hard, as I've tried both of the others and have plenty of experience with CO.  City just has more classes, more powers, and more customization in how you want to play: Gritty solo hero using only SOs to take on a couple baddies at a time or incarnated demigod with purple IOs taking on hordes or anything in between.  Sure, the graphics are dated and the storytelling was never all that compelling, but City's greatest selling point is allowing the player more freedom in creating the personal story they want.

Edited August 11, 2021 by skoryy

[Black Talon]

My thanks to all who continue to contribute to this discussion.  With regard to the WoW diaspora having little to no impact on CoH Homecoming - yes, I can certainly see the truth in this, but the creation of any possible additions to the player-base - and fulfillment of monthly hosting fees - does, I think, require at least some consideration on how to provide the most welcoming hand-of-beckoning possible, whether such an agenda is followed or not.

 

The only element I can comment on with any degree of personal experience is the difference in player-versus-player arrangements serving as a possible draw/aversion to the WoW contingent.  As I understand it - at least as far as "Make Love, Not Warcraft" made clear - players in WoW can engage in PvP at any point as long as they make a mutual agreement to do so.  I was, and am, of the opinion that CoH would have been far, far better served to have followed this model, rather than the PvP zones which required amendments, then amendments again, then a few more amendments in order to achieve some kind of "balance" for those participating.  On the rare occasions I had an alt with a mission in these areas, I made it a point to get the living hell in and out as quickly as humanly possible to avoid individuals or groups that were lying in wait, apparently with the conviction that taking down another player with absolutely no intention of engaging in PvP was "fun".  I have never engaged in a PvP zone for the purpose of player-versus-player, nor have been in the Arena at any point.  Any individuals who choose to do so are more than welcome to it, but I believe that the never-ending "amendments" that were made to the CoH PvP system indicate that this is something that, if it wasn't included at game launch, it should have been left in the shoebox for good.  I would thus see such a marked difference in approach - and success in execution, it could be argued - as another reason the WoW gang would look at CoH and say, "Meh...I don't think so."

 

The nature of comic book superheroes in the first place, ranging from your Punisher types to Silver Surfer/Superman, makes it clear that effective power level differentiations were, are, and likely always will be a core world- and story-building value.  Trying to shoehorn one "type" into being able to take on another with some opportunity for success simply serves, from my point of view, to creating a "Harrison Bergeron" world where everyone is equal in mediocrity.  Again, from my limited perspective, this is another solid point that will serve to keep a number of the WoW crowd away, although some may always decide, "Well, I kind of like this PvE stuff better," and stick around for a bit.

[Sovera]

The game is also very old. Of all close friends I had in WoW and who have even stopped playing WoW, not one played for more than a week. Most did not even try it. Some did try it, did log in, but didn't even play and did not log on the next day.

 

And this is from people with whom I was good friends and who knew that if they played they would not be thrust into the an ocean of strangers, who had someone extolling the virtues of the game and verbally assuring them they would be taught how to navigate things.

 

Not one.

 

So perfect strangers used to all the bells and whistles? Pretty textures and graphics? CoH primes for the gameplay and the flexibility of the system and character creator. But it's outdated down to the mitts-for-hands.

[Crysis]

On 8/10/2021 at 12:35 PM, Rathulfr said:

CoH has never/will never scratch the same itch that afflicts WoW players.  It didn't in 2004, and it won't in 2021.

 

Ditto this.  COX is also a pretty old game that was already outdated by the time Live shut down in 2012.  Thus it likely appeals more to the retro gaming crowd than hardcore MMO players at this point.  
 

We are niche players playing a niche game from a niche historical segment of the MMO landscape.  I doubt that more than a handful of WoW refugees will be attracted to COX as anything more than an interesting experiment on a rainy weekend.  We just don’t have much to offer the hardcore gamer.  This has always been a game for casuals and now it’s an old, lower population game of retro casuals.

[Black Talon]

Stated clearly and succinctly, Crysis - agreed pretty much the big one-ten.  I keep vacillating between hoping that some well-heeled corporate entity (could be Crey or Facebook; both are at about the same level of moral rectitude - or lack thereof) will see what's going on with Homecoming, decide it might be a good tax write-off and take it upon themselves to provide active subsidization for CoH's reinstatement in the MMPOG world; hey, stranger stuff has happened.  The problem is that any indication on the supporting party's behalf to establish ongoing changes and alterations in the game system - "because it'll be fun!" - would be met with outright condemnation by the player base and a pretty near universal desire to relocate the game's servers in a genuine safe-house.  Another part is quietly whispering prayers to powers above that things stay just as they are - the Homecoming crew has got CoH in basically a state of corporate benign neglect: the game and its population don't get messed with as long as we stick to playing our (from some perspectives) obsolete superhero game and don't rock the boat.  If such is the case, I'll be perfectly happy to live with what we've got here.

[Miss Magical]

6 hours ago, Crysis said:This has always been a game for casuals and now it’s an old, lower population game of retro casuals.

This amused me because the population here strikes me as anything but casual. I mean, have you seen the vehemence with which people here talk about things? I don't care too much if someone thinks what I'm doing isn't playing the game, or if I didn't win a costume contest, or if I'm defeated in a pvp zone without warning, or if someone puts me on ignore, or if someone wants to farm or not farm, or if enhancement prices are more than I can afford, or if task forces are too fast or too slow for my liking. There are always going to be differences of opinion, and sure, some of these can be slightly annoying. But the way people talk about these issues? Hoo boy. The moment I got on these forums I smelled hardcore nerd sweat.

 

Not to mention y'all are the last remnants of a 17 year old niche game's community, a game that was revived through a plot straight out of a Tom Clancy novel involving the leaking of source code and hidden servers operated by an elite cabal on the dark web. Most of you are the textbook definition of a diehard old guard. Even the server name (Homecoming) looks to the past, not the future, and celebrates the hardcore (people who made a home here), not the casual. On the hardcore-O-meter I rank everyone here just below that person who made an entire website explaining why a Star Destroyer would beat the USS Enterprise in a firefight, supported with detailed engineering analyses.

 

And I don't mean this as if it's a bad thing. There's no shame in being a little passionate about things that are old but good. 🤗

[Jacktar]

1 hour ago, Miss Magical said:

There's no shame in being a little passionate about things that are old but good. 🤗

Can I show this to my Missus? 👍😇

[TombTyrant]

Telling your missus you are passionate about her because she is old but good may not go as well as you imagine.

[merrypessimist]

On 8/12/2021 at 3:43 AM, TombTyrant said:

Telling your missus you are passionate about her because she is old but good may not go as well as you imagine.

The trick is to tell her she's grown better with age like fine wine, maybe?  I dunno man, I'm 40 and alone. 😊

[SuperPlyx]

On 8/12/2021 at 3:53 AM, Miss Magical said:

game that was revived through a plot straight out of a Tom Clancy novel involving the leaking of source code and hidden servers operated by an elite cabal on the dark web.

 

Holy spy movie batman, that is the greatest summation of how we got here I have ever read.