Everything seems to cost too much influence

[Miss Magical]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

If you scroll up a bit, you'll note that @macskull expanded on my post with additional calculations and information.  In that post, using the numbers you provided (plus some which you omitted), the team of eight players generates the same quantity of inf* in ~15.62 minutes that the farmer needs an hour to generate.  We can also extrapolate that it only "requires" two players to equal the farmer's inf* generation rate per hour, as opposed to "an entire team of players", based on that same analysis, which, again, uses the numbers you provided.    You proved yourself wrong.

You're so focused on forcing everyone to accept your assertion that farmers cause inflation that you're overlooking, or deliberately distorting, facts which refute that assertion.  Farmers might gross more than individual players, but the economy isn't based on the actions of individuals, but the sum of all actions of all players.  What farmers do is, in reality, a drop in the ocean, because they don't comprise a significant portion of the player base and their best efforts are only really impressive when viewed at that individual level.

 

I and others have looked at your numbers and come to the conclusion that the math, based on your numbers, completely disputes everything you've said.  The evidence you're attempting to support your position with has had the opposite effect.  Let it go.

 

You're looking at the earnings of an 8-player ITF in total. Have you considered how much inf 8 farmers generate? If those 8 players weren't on an ITF, they could all be farming, you know.

 

My comparison was one player farming versus one player on a task force. You cannot compare the inf generated by a single farmer vs an entire task force, because you are not controlling for the number of players. I don't know why this needs to be explained. Farming creates ex nihilo far more inf per player per unit time than any other activity in the game. This increases the amount of currency in circulation which then leads to higher equilibrium prices.

 

In my original post, which was meant to show how much inf farmers inject into the economy, I indeed did not include the value of the 26 merits. This is not an omission. Merits create tradeable goods out of thin air, not inf (and therefore, do not increase the amount of inf in circulation, and hence do not contribute to higher equilibrium prices, which was my original thesis).

 

If we're comparing overall rewards of different playstyles, which is a separate issue from inf creation and prices, then it would be right to include their value and I did neglect to do that; I may also have been unclear which I was talking about when casually referring to the earnings of farmers vs other playstyles.

 

However, as I previously mentioned, I consider all economics arguments (including any supposed benefits farming has on the economy) a distraction from the fact that the playstyle of farmers is vastly more rewarding than most others for no reason. And I don't see why anyone should have trouble with me pointing this out; the farmers themselves readily admit to it, some in this very thread, no less.

 

Quote

Chill, they're not damaging the economy in the least.  You can put the pitchfork and torch down.

 

I love this comment because I think it shows what you really see in me: a threat.

 

I have repeatedly said that 1) nerfs to AE alone are not desirable because farmers will just move on to the next, slightly-less-lucrative thing; 2) what I hope for is a comprehensive review of all reward systems in the game, that incentivizes different playstyles and content; and 3) I expect this will never happen. No nerfs are forthcoming, just because Miss M made a post pointing out that farmers print money. I merely saw a comment asking where all this inf comes from so I pointed out the the activity that creates the most inf, per player per unit time, in game.

 

So chill, you won't lose your 100 M/hr golden goose. You can put the pitchfork and torch down.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Miss Magical

[skoryy]

7 minutes ago, Miss Magical said:

Farming creates ex nihilo far more inf per player per unit time than any other activity in the game. This increases the amount of currency in circulation which then leads to higher equilibrium prices.

 

That the equilibrium hasn't changed in two plus years and yet you continue to state this as fact is tell #1.

 

8 minutes ago, Miss Magical said:

 

I love this comment because I think it shows what you really see in me: a threat.

 

And there's tell #2.  

[A Cat]

I guess the main thing I still can't see is the actual damage. As discussed by numerous posts, there are many controls that essentially hard cap inflation. Stuff is in fact affordable, especially in comparison to back in the day. It does not take non-farmers very long to be able to be fully built. There is no lack of various teams going around (well, I guess this is just anecdotal. But it seems people here have similar experiences to me). I team quite a bit myself. I have no problem catching various TF's (other than the notoriously unpleasant ones, but then again, I would expect this). Do I have a hard time catching a team for xyz arc? Depends on the arc I guess. But is that unexpected? There are a metric shit load of arcs, and they are not as worth it as a TF (nor should they be better than a TF anyway, since they do not have the requirement of a team). Generally the arcs that have teams often are TinaMac's arc for the Portal Jockey accolade and the patron arcs. Or random badge missions. I still see teams for various story arcs outside of that, but mostly for lower level stuff, like the KR Skulls arc, or Hollows. At the end of the day, if someone is PL'd, they probably don't just build up their character and then quit playing. They will probably actually PLAY said character, and outside of Spines/Fire brutes, this means experiencing the other content. 

 

Before I get accused of anything, I don't farm. I only single box. I play/have played a lot of story arcs, but personally I do so solo when I'm actually trying to experience the story, since ain't nobody has got time to read when you're on a team.

[InvaderStych]

52 minutes ago, A Cat said:

I guess the main thing I still can't see is the actual damage.

 

Because there isn't any.

 

The crusade in this thread can be summed up as "Farmers make more Fake Money Units for Farming than I do for Not Farming and That's Not Fair."  As economic evidence is being dismissed and non-farming players repeated saying "this doesn't affect our experience" are being completely ignored, then the arguments put forth basically reduce to such.

 

[Dazl]

12 hours ago, Miss Magical said:

I already gave details in my original post, but in short, a kill-most 54x8 ITF produces something like 10 to 12 M inf. The best active farmers that I know of can reach about 100 M/hr. That’s as much as 10x more.

In terms of exp, my experience is that 1-50 takes approximately 20 gameplay hours (on my characters that do not turn off exp to stay within the range of specific contacts). A good farm gets you there in about 2-3h — again, up to 10x faster.

 

Then, you need to consider that farming can be done AFK and is much easier to multibox with than other playstyles. Most other playstyles are not scalable to this extent. 

 

Farmers don’t give up anything in exchange for this. You can unlock incarnates in AE, and you can make and buy incarnate salvage by powerleveling through vet levels and getting empyrean merits. (In fact, I recently read discussions on these forums about the economic viability of power leveling new alts just to claim empyrean merits: you’d level throwaway characters to vet level 18, which is the last level that gives 20 empyreans, then mail them to the character you want, and those merits are in turn convertible to other rewards not directly available from AE.) The only thing that can’t be obtained from AE farms is badge credit.

 

Past nerfs or no, the fact is that currently, farming provides rewards many times those of most other playstyles. Farmers may try to downplay it here, but they aren’t really hesitant to extol how much they earn and how fast they level when trying to convert new players to their playstyle. As for comments that profiteering on the market makes more money, I think that’s  just whataboutism.

I'm going to assume based on your posts you don't have a farmer. If so you don't really have any practical experience with farming to base your arguments on. Since I don't use my farmer to make influence I wanted to look at this 100 inf /per hour claim. So I ran my farmer with one alt on the #125: Bloody Rainbow. Between my alt and farmer I made about 28 million after completing all 5 rounds in an hour. I can make that much waiting for a hami raid to start with simple marketing.

 

[Wavicle]

I think the best point here is that virtually all worthwhile activities Outside the AE reward Merits. Because of that, the balance of AE vs non-AE is pretty much fine most of the time. The main thing people seem to like about the AE is not having to GO anywhere.

I definitely do not agree that AH prices are too high. Most things I want are available on the AH for around Half their "Merit price". That seems fine to me.

Supply is very good, it's only very infrequently that what I want is not available as either recipe or enhancement and in literally EVERY such case I have been able to use Converters to fill my need, again for Far lower than the merit price.

So even if I have some innate dislike of farming (for various reasons), I recognize that in fact the economy is running FINE, regardless of whether it is Because of or Despite farmers.

[Sovera]

If the doom saying was as real as being reported in this thread the amounts of inf created out of thin air would have balooned the price of things for purples to be 50 mill because, so much inf around, demand, big bids being made to ensure farmers got their goods.

 

Empirical means say this is otherwise. So now we need more of a proof that the small segment of the population that farm requires pitchforks and torches.

[Crysis]

I have been a farmer since this game launched. It’s always been part of the play style.  There was a time shortly after HC launched when I multiboxed both active and AFK farmers alike and I made some good influence.  After last years’ nerfs I temporarily upped my multibox AFK farmers but after a certain point you’ve got so much influence available to you that high value item marketeering dwarfs what you could make farming.  I spent billions on Winter Lord packs (like everyone else) when they went on sale and that’s been enough capital that I no longer farm for influence but rather just to PL alts now.

 

The title of this thread is amusing to me.  The cost of items in HC is trivial relative to Live and it’s almost impossible to do exceed the current economically-engineered price caps.  Purples, Winter-O’s and all other recipes/enhancements seldom vary more than 20% between prevailing peaks.  I routinely put in low bids on high end stuff and they almost always fill within days at most because people flip their purple recipe drops without crafting them because they just don’t care to get top dollar and/or they don’t understand how to make more influence.

 

Generally speaking, most people who make complaints about the current economic climate of this version of the game are uneducated by choice or just flat out ignorance.  Same for people who complain about farming.  It will take all of an evening to create your own AFK farmer, often by just respeccing (or second build) an existing alt.  
 

It’s perfectly fine to be uneducated and/or mistaken in your beliefs about the evils of farming and/or the “high cost” of things.  But at the end of the day that’s just someone who has chosen ignorance over knowledge and experience.  That’s on you.

[Neiska]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:21 PM, Wavicle said:

"While farmers try a variety of arguments to defend farming, what they are really arguing for is the special privilege to receive about 10 times the rewards of other people, simply because others choose to enjoy the game differently."

 

There are several arguments against this. Leaving aside the whole "play your way" which I would argue is the spirit of the game, please consider the following -

 

But by this logic I could say Anyone against farming just wants everyone to be forced to play story mode, and want to force other players to team with them. (I am saying this because that's how ridiculous this point is.)

 

For argument sake, lets say the AE was removed by magic pixies in the night. Poof, gone. Everything is magically better, right? Well, no. Not at all. I would expect several things would happen.

 

1. Some players would leave. There would be less people playing, not more. You may not care about this, but I certainly do.

2. The economy would certainly be affected. It's difficult to expect what might happen, but I expect that the flow/trade of goods would slow down considerably, making things for everyone harder to get, not easier. Which would likely affect peoples decisions making alts.

3. It is possible that since gearing up characters is considerably more difficult, you would find less people attending task forces and raids. This would go doubly so for the smaller player base to pool raiders/teams from.

4. Perhaps most importantly, is that removing the "tool" does not solve the issue, or find a compromise. 

5. Lastly, I have seen other such actions taken in other games. It doesn't change the actions, only the Meta. If you remove something, such as the AE, the sub communities will just come together on other discords and figure out the next best thing, and then do that. It would be akin to "Hey farmer bros, AE is gone. What's the thing now? Soloing TFs? Sure sign me up. Invite people? Na. I'm good."

 

Now for me personally -

 

A.) I run AEs because enjoy it. Where else can I fight a literal army of enemies at once? Certainly not in open world. I "like" taking my force of multiboxed masterminds, and fighting 100+ enemies, at once. It's riveting. And to be blunt, much more exciting than the vast majority of missions and task forces out there.

B.) I like helping people. I have taught around 20+ people how to play Masterminds. They see what I do and ask for help. I have written guides even. A large portion of my friend list are my fellow Mastermind bros. But if the AE tool was removed, I would not be as eager or willing to help random people as frequently. Both with hand me downs enhancements, money, or help leveling.

C.) If this was removed, I most certainly would stop supporting CCs and donating to other player events. I mean if money was suddenly much harder to obtain, why should I be so free with it? Lets Scrooge it up then.

 

What I find most amusing, is the feeling that some people think its an "Us/Them" mentality. Do people think that farmers only do just that? Farm? That they don't run TFs, Missions, Stories, Random PI's, go GM hunting, host CCs and other events? They would be wrong. And like it or not, you benefit from farmers. Yes. You. You way in back who says they never stepped foot in a farm. Yep, you benefitted too. You likely went to an event hosted or paid for by a farmer, or bought something from a farmer.

 

And honestly the discussion is starting to turn into "Farmers are bad" which I find worrying. 

 

Don't like to farm? Great. Then don't.

Don't like to raid? Awesome. Then don't.

Don't want to team? Super. then don't.

 

And if you trim all the contexts away from the argument, regardless of reason or logic, I will never support the "less is more" point. I do not support removing tools or options away from players.

 

And to those so firm against farming, I would like to ask where is it written that Story Mode/Contacts/Raids/TFs HAVE to be, or is even supposed to be, the most economical/superior method of financial gain? The last time I checked, that isn't written anywhere. I actually have more to say, but I have to get ready for work.

 

Best wishes.

[Wavicle]

I've never suggested getting rid of the AE, just scaling back the rewards, which they did.

 

Did they do it enough? Probably.

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

After last years’ nerfs I temporarily upped my multibox AFK farmers but after a certain point you’ve got so much influence available to you that high value item marketeering dwarfs what you could make farming.

 

Yea, I didn't want to out anyone, but I think the reason why some people look at the farmers is because they are so visible. If money is what I was after I wouldn't farm. I would sit down in my place of choice and play Stock Market Simulator with the auction house and make 4 times as much money in half as much time as I would farming. But that isn't engaging, fun, or entertaining to me.

 

The absurdly wealthy people aren't the farmers. Its the AH players.

[Blackbird71]

22 hours ago, Ukase said:

As someone who does take the drops my afk-farmer gets and places them in the AH, I can tell you that I've seen only small instances of this. 
It's weird. The Preventative Medicine Absorb proc. I love that one. It's literally called a proc. It's in the name. Damn thing works no matter where it's slotted. And you can literally see that it works when the letters flash across your screen in game. But, I digress. 

But price fluctuations in a market are completely normal, as supply and demand are also fluctuating. Converters are the big game changer, though. You can sell them and pay the price directly, or you can use them and make what you need. Or someone else can. Makes no difference to me. 

It's easy to say 200-300% and it be true, though. The trash IOs...like an uncommon Targeted AOE (now called Ranged AoE) like detonation or Air Burst...those turds sell for 100-300k. The variance in the sale prices alone ranges between 200-300%. 

But what about the popular items? Like LotG 7.5%? Over this past year, I think I've seen them sell for 5M for a weekend. There were literally hundreds sold at that price - while mine were stuck, listed at 6M. But, over the course of this year - they're still stuck at 6m, dropped from the fairly routine sale price at 7M from before the NoXP2XInf nerf. It's a stable price. 

So, I'd need some specific examples of these price ranges, otherwise, I'd say you're just not being patient. Bid, log, check back the next day. 

 

I'm not talking about brief fluctuations on "trash" IOs.  I'm talking about IOs used commonly in popular builds being consistently higher for the past 2-3 months running.  Things I used to regularly sell at 1M a piece are consistently selling for 2-3M or higher.  Yes, it's made me more Inf than normal, so I can't complain about that, but it's also a sign of inflation.

 

You can't just look at a handful of big-ticket items; you have to look at a spread of commonly-used enhancements.  This is why the real-world has different stock market indicies that track different assortments and types of stocks; one narrow picture doesn't show the state of the full market.

[skoryy]

50 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

I'm talking about IOs used commonly in popular builds being consistently higher for the past 2-3 months running.  Things I used to regularly sell at 1M a piece are consistently selling for 2-3M or higher.

 

Name them.

[Crysis]

59 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

I'm not talking about brief fluctuations on "trash" IOs.  I'm talking about IOs used commonly in popular builds being consistently higher for the past 2-3 months running.  Things I used to regularly sell at 1M a piece are consistently selling for 2-3M or higher.  Yes, it's made me more Inf than normal, so I can't complain about that, but it's also a sign of inflation.

 

You can't just look at a handful of big-ticket items; you have to look at a spread of commonly-used enhancements.  This is why the real-world has different stock market indicies that track different assortments and types of stocks; one narrow picture doesn't show the state of the full market.

You also have to look at things in their proper context.  I know several formerly-big-ticket, highly sought after IO’s and ATO’s that are also selling much cheaper than they used to.  And not surprisingly many of these are popular with farming builds.

 

It’s a totally “rigged” economy, on purpose and by design.  Some things go up as popularity outstrips organic supply but FOTM builds are being popularized all the time and then there’s converter flipping that almost always ensure you can get the one you need without paying the higher price.

 

 

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

The absurdly wealthy people aren't the farmers. Its the AH players.

 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

You can't just look at a handful of big-ticket items; you have to look at a spread of commonly-used enhancements.  This is why the real-world has different stock market indicies that track different assortments and types of stocks; one narrow picture doesn't show the state of the full market.

Holy smokes! That's brilliant! This is a fantastic idea! 
We need this in game! @Yomo Kimyata, what say you? 

Min-maxer index: All the procs, the big 3 pvp IOs, Kismet 6%, lotg 7.5%, etc.  a daily check in on the average price of the last 5. 
General index: other than end mod IOs - uncommon and rares..no idea what should go in here. I've no idea, really, what the "have-nots/care-nots" slot their builds with. 

Now that my enthusiasm for this idea has been noted - you have a point. 
The only items I routinely look at are Oblits, Perf shifters, Unbreakable Guards, Aegis, PvPs, & procs. (maybe a few others, but not as routinely)
I would still appreciate specific examples, because I can certainly put downward pressure on the prices of these items. But if they're not on my radar, they're not on my radar. 

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

The absurdly wealthy people aren't the farmers. Its the AH players.

 

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

Yea, I didn't want to out anyone, but I think the reason why some people look at the farmers is because they are so visible. If money is what I was after I wouldn't farm. I would sit down in my place of choice and play Stock Market Simulator with the auction house and make 4 times as much money in half as much time as I would farming. But that isn't engaging, fun, or entertaining to me.

 

The absurdly wealthy people aren't the farmers. Its the AH players.

This. I mean I know how to generate 100M in 5 minutes through the AH. Not fun though but it can be done. I remember when people pointed the finger at farmers (still do), but really? If you’re pissed you can’t afford an IO or whatever asinine reason you come up with it, it’s probably 1 of 2 scenarios

 

1.) The flippers drive the prices up, y’know, to make a profit.

 

2.) You( not the person I’m quoting specifically) keep making alts without a 50 to generate income, and thusly can’t afford anything. 
 

Farmers, once again, are not the problem. I personally use my farmer only to get IOs that drop or I can buy, for myself.  No one gets mad at the RPers for sitting in PD all day, but god forbid a farmer just wants to level one of their alts or buy something off the AH.

 

Nothing against what any one else chooses to do, just my little rant. A bit tired of farmers getting flak just for choosing to play their way.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Min-maxer index: All the procs, the big 3 pvp IOs, Kismet 6%, lotg 7.5%, etc.  a daily check in on the average price of the last 5.

 

Many of the %proc pieces would (deservedly) lose their spot on any such index for being notoriously bad performers (both in the market as well as in builds).

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Neiska said:

For argument sake, lets say the AE was removed by magic pixies in the night. Poof, gone. Everything is magically better, right? Well, no. Not at all. I would expect several things would happen.

 

I'm just going to snip the rest because it's much shorter than what you've said.

 

What would happen? Nothing. Nothing would happen. How did people farm before the AE? They picked a mission and would run it over and over. The infamous Dreck comes to mind.

 

Nowadays there are no hoops to be jumped. The first mission of the Market Crash 100% looks like a regular farm mission from the AE but at 100% the XP. It may not be as OPTIMAL as patrolling mobs who come to meet at the center but it's a gazillion Freaks to be reaped,

 

The only way to calm down the anti farming crowd (incidentally I haven't received an answer about how inflation did not balloon prices, and neither about how it takes casual play two weeks TOPS to buy all the purples and winters, and half that if a bit more aggressive about playing which seems about right if actively playing a character we are enjoying) would be to instate a GW2 diminishing returns.

 

And it's universally loathed in GW2. GW2 is a game with a lot of grind and hours killing things, so it's HILARIOUS to find the drops slowing and eventually stopping if having farmed a map for more than an hour. The game about grind with an anti-grind mechanic is stupid as can be.

 

 

Before anyone sneers I don't farm. I've long since stated this. I don't farm, I don't even bother playing the market other than crafting the recipes I happen to find for a % more profit than if I sold the recipe. I just play the game, do TFs, do a daily Tinpex/Hami (have actually not done this in a long while other than Tinpex for my most recent character I am incarnating). What I do and some don't is clean an alt I stop playing to gear another alt. Even so I have something like a billion, 4-5 characters fully IOed to the gills with all the expensive stuff, plus a dozen packed enhancement tables.

 

So I have no sides that I am picking. BUT! It annoys me to see all this sneering going on.

 

PROOF, FFS! PRODUCE IT!

 

'OMG FARMING IS KILLING THE ECONOMY!!!'

'No it's not, things were more expensive before. They are -less- expensive now.'

'IT IS!!!!'

'...do you have proof of this?'

'NO, BUT IT IS!'

 

GTFO.

[Ukase]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Many of the %proc pieces would (deservedly) lose their spot on any such index for being notoriously bad performers (both in the market as well as in builds).

I agree. I really don't know all the IOs that should be included in such an index. I do think for such an index, the big 3 pvp procs should be included. The absorb proc from preventative medicine, maybe the numina & miracle procs. 

The perf shifter +end...in my mind is so commonly used (maybe it's not?) that it should be in every index. But, I've never made an index before. I'd have to do some reading through some old Econ texts. (yawn fest) 

[Hew]

12 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I agree. I really don't know all the IOs that should be included in such an index. I do think for such an index, the big 3 pvp procs should be included. The absorb proc from preventative medicine, maybe the numina & miracle procs. 

The perf shifter +end...in my mind is so commonly used (maybe it's not?) that it should be in every index. But, I've never made an index before. I'd have to do some reading through some old Econ texts. (yawn fest) 

 

See, I am not sure I agree with this... I think that a lot of what you see for market movement (excluding the 3 health +ends) is just people building to an existing standard that doesn't explore other capabilities. It really is possible to build a fully functional build without a lot of these things, including prevent +absorb, pshift +end, oblits, unbreaks, so on so forth. However, we have developed a strong build homogenization through build sharing, which makes people building thing just a LITTLE differently a lot better off for the inf, and possibly not even at a performance loss but a performance gain.

 

Winteros and ATOs are the massive drift from this though, because omg huge bonuses. But things like purples? Totally possible to work around, and the few bits of +rech difference (1.5%, when lined up with things like prevent that give 8.5?) are not going to break the bank except possibly for a dominator...

 

tl;dr: some of these are popular because they are present in so many homogenized builds, not because they are inherently better than other possible slotting solutions.

[tidge]

42 minutes ago, Hew said:

Winteros and ATOs are the massive drift from this though, because omg huge bonuses. But things like purples? Totally possible to work around, and the few bits of +rech difference (1.5%, when lined up with things like prevent that give 8.5?) are not going to break the bank except possibly for a dominator...

 

tl;dr: some of these are popular because they are present in so many homogenized builds, not because they are inherently better than other possible slotting solutions.

 

I definitely agree that homogenized builds are a peculiar thing. I've posted quite a bit about how I feel about the Numina %proc showing up in AT builds where it is almost certainly doing next-to-nothing.

 

Very few of my builds (which would otherwise be considered frivolously expensive) include Winter sets... the benefits tend to favor Melee and Fire/Cold resistances that I often don't need. Purples tend to give +Recharge, which many more of my characters value. There is at least one set where I think the bonuses from multi-slotting PVP outweigh both Purple and Winter options (straight Holds, because of the many %proc options). I am also a hug fan of bonuses from sets that are either uncommon (e.g. Thunderstrike) or con as uncommon (Gaussian's pieces) and are never very pricey.

 

Frankly: creating an AH index would simply incentivize folks to manipulate it. If there is any doubt, just review the past attempted manipulation of uncommon salvage prices. I suppose it was a good sink for inf, but otherwise I am not sure what the point was of that.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

Holy smokes! That's brilliant! This is a fantastic idea! 
We need this in game! @Yomo Kimyata, what say you? 

Min-maxer index: All the procs, the big 3 pvp IOs, Kismet 6%, lotg 7.5%, etc.  a daily check in on the average price of the last 5. 
General index: other than end mod IOs - uncommon and rares..no idea what should go in here. I've no idea, really, what the "have-nots/care-nots" slot their builds with. 

Now that my enthusiasm for this idea has been noted - you have a point. 
The only items I routinely look at are Oblits, Perf shifters, Unbreakable Guards, Aegis, PvPs, & procs. (maybe a few others, but not as routinely)
I would still appreciate specific examples, because I can certainly put downward pressure on the prices of these items. But if they're not on my radar, they're not on my radar. 

 

Well, to be honest, I don't see a lot of value added by an index.  I get that you want an overall "health of the economy" gauge, but there are issues with a price index with a blind auction system.  Namely, what happens when you take the snapshot of rare salvage and you have 4 prints of 406,067 and one print of 10,000,000?  Yes, the 10mm print is probably a fat finger trade, or someone wanting to give away funds, but it certainly doesn't represent the trading value of an alien blood sample.  Similarly, I would read the 406,067 prints as the highest outstanding bid, meaning that it is the low end.  And without big macro events (Winter Event, new issue released) the only fundamental changes would be from an ebb or flow of player activity or from an outlier player or two doing arbitrary things in the market.  I would hate for someone to say "OMG, Trap of the Hunter procs are worth 9mm now!!!" just because I decided to clear out a backlog of inventory for my own inscrutable reasons.

 

But if someone wants to do this, have at it!  I'd be happy to opine on items for inclusion.

[skoryy]

7 minutes ago, tidge said:

Very few of my builds (which would otherwise be considered frivolously expensive) include Winter sets... the benefits tend to favor Melee and Fire/Cold resistances that I often don't need.

 

Five slotted winter sets are a good source of defense, five of the melee give you more S/L than four Kinetic Combats.

 

9 minutes ago, tidge said:

I've posted quite a bit about how I feel about the Numina %proc showing up in AT builds where it is almost certainly doing next-to-nothing.

 

In ye olden days, it was a valuable source if recovery.  Now with the Panacea proc more abundant, it's a bit outdated unless you really need that extra bump to invest in a third slot in Health.