Hot Take: DIY!

[kubwulf]

43 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

!

*general forum population holding me back by the arms* No no, don't!

 

 

 

 

 

😄

We can discuss the viability of fire tanks elsewhere.  Having one, albeit only level 45, and no IOs, allows me to hold the opinion that they suck.  This game is great in that you may have found a way to make it viable and have no problem using temp powers to resist knockdown/back and that's great for you.  I'm not saying fire is useless, I'm saying it sucks for me.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, kubwulf said:

We can discuss the viability of fire tanks elsewhere.  Having one, albeit only level 45, and no IOs, allows me to hold the opinion that they suck.  This game is great in that you may have found a way to make it viable and have no problem using temp powers to resist knockdown/back and that's great for you.  I'm not saying fire is useless, I'm saying it sucks for me.

 

If you slot one -KB IO your woes are solved. Two if you want to be extreme. I play with just one. They cost 1-2 mill. I don't use temp powers either, but yeah.

[Hyperstrike]

23 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

(Author's Note: This is purely for discussion, because it annoys me, and I'm looking for lively discourse.)

 

Rather than unabashedly asking for a completed build someone else spent their valuable time to create (which may or may not have your goals/concept/etc in mind), why not do it yourself? At least give it a shot first, then throw it up to be dissected civilly and have a back and forth on those goals and how to best fit them in. 

 

Conversely, if you don't even know where to begin, take your idea and ask for direction or something...give a man a build, set him on fire, ad nauseum. 

 

*Calling all "don't tell me how to have fun" folks!*

Mids is like Solitaire.  For CoH addicts.

If someone benefits from the fruits of such play, SO MUCH THE BETTER!

[Hyperstrike]

22 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

I find it annoying that people constantly ask for someone to do the build for them.

I get that people suck at Mids, or don't know how, etc.

But, you give no direction on what your looking for or how you play, high s/l, rech, ??? Not to mention what powers do like, especially on blasters you might build for melee but they want ranged.

I'd prefer people just try to build or at least fill in some details instead of hey make a build for me.

Granted I do my best on my builds I'm proficient but not an expert and I do ask for help and I give it. If its the case you don't care because its just another pl toon then ask @JJDrakken because he lives to do it for people. 

When you're looking to get your car performance tuned, do you take it to a Yugo repair shop where they've never seen your car?
Or do you take it to a custom tuner shop?

Yes, it's NICER if the person has a general understanding of the build's goals.
But if someone wants to just build a Godlike toon, or an actual God (Tank)?

That's THEIR business.

[A Cat]

5 minutes ago, kubwulf said:

We can discuss the viability of fire tanks elsewhere.  Having one, albeit only level 45, and no IOs, allows me to hold the opinion that they suck.  This game is great in that you may have found a way to make it viable and have no problem using temp powers to resist knockdown/back and that's great for you.  I'm not saying fire is useless, I'm saying it sucks for me.

Acrobatics from the leaping pool. There's also the universal travel io that gives -kb, steadfast protection defense io that gives -kb, and set bonuses (overwhelming force and I think some pvp ones too. Dark armor also has the same kb hole too iirc. 

[The_Warpact]

5 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

When you're looking to get your car performance tuned, do you take it to a Yugo repair shop where they've never seen your car?
Or do you take it to a custom tuner shop?

Do it myself  😉

[ZemX]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:16 PM, Aurora_Girl said:

(Author's Note: This is purely for discussion, because it annoys me, and I'm looking for lively discourse.)

 

If people are willing to hand out builds, then why not ask?  It seems to work.  Your being annoyed by it is, quite frankly, YOUR problem.

 

Not everyone enjoys starting from scratch.  The "game" of finding the right IOs to slot in a power isn't all that much fun for some.  I've done builds from scratch but I've also taken endgame builds and worked backwards from them and had great success there too.   I occasionally find some odd slotting I hadn't or wouldn't likely have thought of.   Interesting franken-slotting combos.  That sort of thing.  Hell, until a few months ago, I had completely missed that Performance Shifter:+end WASN'T unique until I'd seen a few builds go by that had multiple of them.  Was happy to learn that one.

[Aurora_Girl]

@ZemX I bring up the point specifically for new players or folks who have never played a specific AT or powerset. It comes off as lazy (to me) to beg for a build on something that you have no idea how to play. Behind the scenes, if somebody grabs an available build? Sure, knock yourself out. Making a post or discord message like "never played a blaster fire/fire build plz" pisses me off. 

[Grouchybeast]

I think at a minimum it's reasonable to expect people to search the build forums and look at the builds and discussions that already exist.  Asking for a build when perfectly viable builds have already been posted does smack of laziness.  (Although of course it's fine to say 'I looked at X and Y builds, but they didn't fit my needs for reasons A, B and C.')

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I bring up the point specifically for new players or folks who have never played a specific AT or powerset. It comes off as lazy (to me) to beg for a build on something that you have no idea how to play. Behind the scenes, if somebody grabs an available build? Sure, knock yourself out. Making a post or discord message like "never played a blaster fire/fire build plz" pisses me off. 

I feel like some folks just want to beat up enemies as a hero or villain, instead of the innumerable fantasy MMOs out there, but perhaps don't want to bother with the more mechanical aspects of the game.  That being said - yeah, just look up a build for the AT or powersets that you want and call it a day...

[ninja surprise]

I like inventing my own builds to suit my goals.

But also, I'll see someone in game and think "That looks like fun!" But I've never done an AR/Storm Corrupter before. Is it crap? What powers are good and which are useless? Is it worth six-slotting Hurricane for ToHit Debuff and KB? 

That's when I'll look for a build and if I don't find one I'll ask about the build and slotting suggestions. It's nice to get pro tips from someone who's been there before.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

It comes off as lazy (to me) to beg for a build on something that you have no idea how to play.

 

Not wanting to put in the work at work is lazy.  This is a video game.  A leisure activity. How much effort anyone is willing to put into this is up to them and is, really, none of your business.   If no one was willing to help then they'd either quit or do the work themselves.  But as people ARE willing to help them, even if that's not YOU, then why not?

 

Have you thought about choosing not to be upset by it?

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

It comes off as lazy (to me) to beg for a build on something that you have no idea how to play. Behind the scenes, if somebody grabs an available build? Sure, knock yourself out. Making a post or discord message like "never played a blaster fire/fire build plz" pisses me off. 

If it pisses you off, just keep scrolling.  It doesn't piss everyone off and some people go out of their way to be helpful - even to people you might dismiss as lazy.

[skoryy]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Mids is like Solitaire.  For CoH addicts.

If someone benefits from the fruits of such play, SO MUCH THE BETTER!

 

No, that's Mids plus Brainstorm. 😉

[Hyperstrike]

6 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Do it myself  😉

Sorry, selecting an answer not given as a choice is the same as "I take my tuner projects to a Yugo saleguy."

 

[Aurora_Girl]

3 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Not wanting to put in the work at work is lazy.  This is a video game.  A leisure activity. How much effort anyone is willing to put into this is up to them and is, really, none of your business.   If no one was willing to help then they'd either quit or do the work themselves.  But as people ARE willing to help them, even if that's not YOU, then why not?

 

Have you thought about choosing not to be upset by it?

 

I in fact have thought about it! Thank you so much for such an obvious and well-intentioned solution. 

 

I decided to continue to be upset about it and make a thread on the forum with the knowledge that I'd have a lively discussion...like I already said. It upsets me. It always will. If new folks understand how the game works, how their characters work, I believe they are more likely to stick around. More likely to share the game with others. More likely to become awesome members of the community. 

[huang3721]

This lively discussion is going nowhere. 

[Aurora_Girl]

47 minutes ago, huang3721 said:

This lively discussion is going nowhere. 

 

Thanks for your help... 🧐

[Clave Dark 5]

I have posted a build or two but find I often don't get replies if it's an unpopular power set or I'm not aiming for min/max goodness.  I also don't have a huge amount of time to devote to our hobby here, so I can't spend lots of time tinkering with MIDs or the test server, so anyone who does post a build upon request, even if I don't like its goals, is a hero in my book.

[dangeraaron10]

You guys ever consider that people who don't know how to build use that as an ice breaker to interact with the community?

 

No?

 

Keep being passive aggressive.  I'm sure that'll breed a happy, helpful community people actually want to join.

[JJDrakken]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:54 PM, The_Warpact said:

I find it annoying that people constantly ask for someone to do the build for them.

I get that people suck at Mids, or don't know how, etc.

But, you give no direction on what your looking for or how you play, high s/l, rech, ??? Not to mention what powers do like, especially on blasters you might build for melee but they want ranged.

I'd prefer people just try to build or at least fill in some details instead of hey make a build for me.

Granted I do my best on my builds I'm proficient but not an expert and I do ask for help and I give it. If its the case you don't care because its just another pl toon then ask @JJDrakken because he lives to do it for people. 

 

I don't live to do these things for folks. I do these when someone asks or ideas are in my head.  I don't even play game right now, for several months. Busy with other games and taking care of my life  Never assume someones intentions.

 

I've refused several times on builds(Mostly Spine/Fire Builds). Not a fan of farming toons.

[kubwulf]

38 minutes ago, dangeraaron10 said:

You guys ever consider that people who don't know how to build use that as an ice breaker to interact with the community?

 

No?

 

Keep being passive aggressive.  I'm sure that'll breed a happy, helpful community people actually want to join.

That's a bit defeatist, don't you think?  Sure, pre-made builds can be an icebreaker, but what the OP is claiming is that people come in, use that icebreaker, and then do not understand how or why it works.  They get bored.  They are sub-optimal with the build.  They are unable to maximize the potential of the build because they don't understand the mechanics behind it.

 

It isn't being passive aggressive to express frustration and upset at people looking for the easy way while lacking the understanding to utilize the easy way.  Blaster Defiance is a good example.  When it first hit, new people didn't understand why blasters were willing to almost kill themselves and then get upset at healers for "taking away their damage".  New players following a build, may not understand that it is meant to be played when you are down 75% of your HP.

 

@Aurora_Girl has a valid complaint.  You don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't mean it is passive aggressive.

[ZemX]

12 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

If new folks understand how the game works, how their characters work, I believe they are more likely to stick around. More likely to share the game with others. More likely to become awesome members of the community. 

 

People will stay if they are having fun.  They will leave if they are not.  Sorry if that's another "obvious" statement, but you don't seem to be demonstrating that you understand this or that telling people they are lazy isn't a great way to convince them to stay or that the community is "awesome".

 

You don't need to know how to build a fully IOd character from scratch anymore than you need to be able to build a car from spare parts in order to know how to drive it.  You can understand the game just fine on a basic SO or common IO build.  Playing a character is how you gain understanding of it.  Not doodling in Mid's.

 

In any case, learning by example is a perfectly sound way to learn.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting from a complete build and then tweaking it to your liking.  It's not "better" than starting from scratch.  People will learn by playing.  You don't need to be concerned that they missed out on something because they skipped the laborious process of finding the set bonuses they want and slotting them in powers.   If they aren't interested in doing that, you can't make them interested.  You sure as hell can't do that by insulting them.

[arcane]

Some people can’t have mids because of its compatibility requirements 😉 If I posted one of my Google spreadsheet builds everyone would laugh at me 😞 

[The_Warpact]

11 minutes ago, JJDrakken said:

 

I don't live to do these things for folks. I do these when someone asks or ideas are in my head.  I don't even play game right now, for several months. Busy with other games and taking care of my life  Never assume someones intentions.

 

I've refused several times on builds(Mostly Spine/Fire Builds). Not a fan of farming toons.

Not assuming, your thread has it that you do random builds and requests. Hence, the reason why I tagged you, didn't know you were not around any longer.

Trying to give people options if they need a build, your thread is a good starting point with its hundreds of different builds for different ATs, plus, I've seen you help quite a few folks out in the past so thats why I tagged ya.

 

If your not doing it any longer or you've moved on then I didn't know. So no worries.