Issue 27 Page 4 - The End of Procs

[Troo]

With the current popularity of procs, is the reining in of their effectiveness still in the works?

 

I believe this was mentioned a while back and folks would likely appreciate a heads up.

Nothing like putting time and effort into something that is taken away. Sure procs are currently a bit broken (is this debatable?).

 

Maybe a timeline? example: "To be addressed but not soon^tm"

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Troo

[SeraphimKensai]

I don't specifically remember any of the development team stating they are addressing procs other than noting that proc interactions are broken in irradiated ground. There's been a vocal few who have suggested that procs are overtuned.

 

Personally I think the values for procs are fine, and if anything is wonky it's the PPM Proc Formula.

 

That said I personally enjoy leveraging procs in a number of my toons as I feel it allows a greater build diversity, and to remove their usefulness may pigeon hole us and minimize potential choices while maintaining the effectiveness of our toons.

 

I do not think an overall adjustment of proc interactions and proc rates as something with enough salience to merit displacing other avenues of development. But maybe that's just me.

[iBot]

I'd have to dive back into the patch notes but wasn't there a pass over procs a while back to at least make them more consistent in their application?

 

As for a balance pass, I'd much rather see them take what is currently working nicely and just expand upon it.  It would be nice to not have just ONE option for certain types of procs in terms of the power that you can slot that particular widget into.  I'm ok with uniques I'd just like to be able to get that same unique in a for that can go into say def debuff instead of just defense.  I like the concept behind "power proliferation" now we need more "slot" or "enhancement" proliferation.  And for the goodness and sanity of this chaotic universe would someone please make a few blaster sets (or alter a couple existing ones) to actually increase <gasp> RANGE.  Call me crazy but I actually believe that being able to snipe a mob from halfway across the map is a good thing!

[aethereal]

7 minutes ago, iBot said:

I'd have to dive back into the patch notes but wasn't there a pass over procs a while back to at least make them more consistent in their application?

Nope.

 

There were some aborted stabs at specific changes for procs (like setting an "internal recharge timer" to, yes, further complicate PPM), but they were rolled back.  There was apparently a Burn change that was also rolled back.  I don't think that there have even been specific point-fixes to any powers that I can remember that made it to live, much less a general pass.  The closest thing I can think of to a proc fix has been a concerted effort not to have, for example, Enflame in Sorcery have an Irradiated-Ground-like proc interaction, and introducing new procs with lockout timers to prevent for example the Power Transfer proc to function as a high-power heal when put in an AoE endmod power.

[KaizenSoze]

Since, I'm sure this thread will cause another round of proc debate.

 

Here's my two cents. Complaining about procs to me is complaining about difficulty. 

 

The HC dev is adding optional difficulty to the game, which I think makes proc complaints moot. 

 

I'm sure there are few places where procs are so out of wack that they need some adjustment. 

 

Overall, I think the proc system is fine.

[Bill Z Bubba]

And I'll stick with my "reduce all proc damage by 75%" line.

[Myrmidon]

They have outsourced Proc changes to me and I have decided to just make those an enhancement that grants the sixth set bonus and does nothing else.

 

Carry on.

[Major_Decoy]

2 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

They have outsourced Proc changes to me and I have decided to just make those an enhancement that grants the sixth set bonus and does nothing else.

 

Carry on.

I've decided to make the five set bonus on most of the purple sets +10% recharge and 100% chance of magnitude 47 knockback. The proc has a 97% chance of turning that knockback into knockdown.

[skoryy]

To repeat, since y'all apparently bored:

 

It's been three years and we've yet to see hide nor hair of the NPC resistance rebalance that was supposed to be stage one of any rebalancing.   At some point, y'all have to admit if it happens it happens but it won't be anytime soon.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

With the current popularity of procs, is the reining in of their effectiveness still in the works?

 

FUD-mongering?  You?  You?

Wow, I guess it has been a slow start to the week.

[Naraka]

Can they make the immobilize, slow and other lesser used procs more advantageous?

 

Part of the problem with the damage procs is that there's just so dang many of them thus you get the stacking problem. Compare that with the buff/debuff/control ones and that starts to show why they aren't as useful.

[Mr. Vee]

So you're saying you saw Goody Proc-tor with the devil?

[Bionic_Flea]

1 minute ago, Mr. Vee said:

So you're saying you saw Goody Proc-tor with the devil?

John Procter said, "More weight." Or maybe it was "More, wait"

[Black Zot]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And I'll stick with my "reduce all proc damage by 75%" line.

 

That would render them a waste of a slot.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Black Zot said:

That would render them a waste of a slot.

 

From *this* crowd? Where we eke out 1% extra damage for pylons?

[SaintD]

Limited to a single proc per power.

 

There. Done.

[Shred Monkey]

I didn't know this was a problem.  Is it really a problem? 

 

I mean, proc builds are the most extreme bestest of the best DPS builds, but they give up a ton of other good things to really get there.  I thought that was working as intended.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

but they give up a ton of other good things to really get there.

 

But do they? Really? Yea, they lose some set bonuses, so some mitigation loss that's probably completely covered by Rune/Demonic/Melee Core if even remotely necessary, loss of slotting is covered by FocAcc or Tactics and Ageless...

 

I'd have to argue that the damage gains greatly outweigh the loss in mitigation.

[Gobbledigook]

37 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

From *this* crowd? Where we eke out 1% extra damage for pylons?

Pylon is not actual gameplay though. I can and have made characters to take down a Pylon fast with Proc help but would i want to play it in general... .probably not.

I use the Pylon for what is possible but i will tweak it down to make it more playable/survivable until i'm happy with it.

 

You do lose a lot of set bonuses using procs but some AT's may get away with it more than others. Ranged that keep out of danger or Tankers with high survival with their ATO proc for example.

 

Everyone can use procs just the same. May as well remove them if you overly nerf them.

[Albion]

I wish to add my constructive and sensible view on the subject based on these concerns:
THE APROCALYPSE IS COMING

[Troo]

oh boi.

 

the only change that is guaranteed, is that there will be change.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

20 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Everyone can use procs just the same. May as well remove them if you overly nerf them.

 

Everyone can run with all three amplifiers all the time as well or store and use huge insps from email. Is that really a solid basis for a balance discussion?

 

Let's look at some random power.

 

33.8 nrg and 52.8 sma at 50 for a tank. 86.6 total damage. 172.3 damage with 100% dam enhancement.

Proced out that's 4 procs at 71.75 dam and 1 at 107.1 for a total of 394.1 damage (edit: plus the damage from the attack itself) if they all go off if Mids is correct on the values.

 

Does anyone really think there's remote equity between proced and nonproced attacks? Someone else can determine what the actual proc chances are.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

Or to put it another way, here's my shield/nrg tank as she is on live:

 

 

And here she is with as many damage procs as I can get in BS, TF, ET and Gloom.

 

 

Still softcapped, some loss of resists and a bit less HP.

[Apparition]

31 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Or to put it another way, here's my shield/nrg tank as she is on live:

 

 

And here she is with as many damage procs as I can get in BS, TF, ET and Gloom.

 

 

Still softcapped, some loss of resists and a bit less HP.

 

 

Correct.  Now, do the same for a Brute build.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

Correct.  Now, do the same for a Brute build.

 

Why? They'll do even more damage and just cut the mitigation by 25%.