Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players

[Herotu]

6 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

1 - 50 includes incarnates, SOs won't work. When I say they won't work I mean all content. 

 

As far as the rest I said "my opinion " and in that I believe we went off the tracks in the past and the HC devs have continued trying to shore up what they were handed.

I feel that. What do you think they could do in future, to improve the state of the game? Revert to pre-incarnates? Waste all that expensive development work, not to mention all the effort players have put into grinding the powers? ... I think we're a shark now, we can only move forwards. What that means ... I think it would be great to have a big old  discussion on THAT topic.

[Paragon Vanguard]

So part of the problem I THINK is that so many want the game to reflect how they feel the game should be. It's natural. 
Take Brutes for an example. I love my Brutes, dont see a need for a change, and make sure people know "I am a Brute, not a Tank". Yes, I tank with Brutes, but they aren't true tanks. There are some Brutes who would rather tank with a Brute than a Tank. It seems those that do not like where Brutes are at feel the tank is the meta. Then play the tank. I am an alt-aholic and play every set imaginable (and I wont lose ONE name because I actually play them all!), and at a certain point I can solo content with anyone of them. Some are slower than others, but the slower ones are usually the safer ones (lockdowns...etc). 

If you don't like some content, then don't play that content. I like difficult content, I do not like super difficult for most occassions. I do not begrudge anyone that likes super difficult. I do not begrudge anyone that likes easy. Play the content you wish play. 

I made my opinion known about emp merits, but the change happened and so be it. The devs are the ones that do the work, not me, and they do not owe me anything. In fact, we owe the devs for doing what they do, in my opinion. 

None of this is to say people should not state their opinion, however, our opinion is just our opinions. In the process of stating opinion it is always good to also show appreciation. 99 great things, but we all (including me) seem to complain when there is 1 thing we don't like. Again, not saying we should keep our opinions to ourselves. We have boards for a reason. 🙂 

[melancholicmoods]

14 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

100% agree

 

i’d also add that IOs are far too affordable making most content not fit for purpose as characters have become overpowered

 

a final build should be earned over time as an achievement, not as something that’s completed in a few hours

Decent IOs aren't affordable to anyone that isn't being bankrolled by either someone else or yourself if you've already made a ton of influence on another character. That's not much different than when it was SOs and friends with more influence would help their poorer teammates with keeping their SOs in the green.

[Riverdusk]

Interesting thread and some random (and very much IMHO) thoughts of mine:

 

Personally I don't play this game for super hard content, so I pretty much just ignore it.  To me I think it'd give me a headache trying to play it and having to "perfectly" time everything.  I'm more here to relax, not stress.  Maybe I'll try a "1 star" eventually.

 

At the same time I also want to be at least semi-engaged, and like to see my character slowly improve and "get to know them" as they level, so I never farm or PL.  I don't think I've ever gotten a single character to level 50 in less than 30 hours of play, most average around 40 hours (I try to remember to check an NPC for my playtime whenever I hit 50).   

 

But for those that like super hard content I'm glad the devs have added it (in an optional way).  For those that like to farm and PL, I have no issue with it (as long as those same people don't then complain the game is "too easy" or IO's are too easy to get now).   

 

Anyway, the parts of the game I like to play are all still here (all the "regular" stuff).  I also always enjoy seeing new powersets added or tweaks made to obvious underperforming sets (both happened this page). 

 

Not to be a total cheerleader, are there things I'd change?  Sure.  I don't think the super fast steamroll nuke teams are the most fun thing compared to how high level teams used to be in the more recent of the "old days".  If it were up to me I'd somewhat nerf back down the quick recharging crashless nukes and especially the Judgement powers to slow that down a bit.  That's probably about as far as "make the game more difficult" I'd go though myself in an overall game sense.  

 

 

[melancholicmoods]

14 hours ago, Neiska said:

it comes down to essentially what each person thinks is "overpowered." I mean, if some things are "too strong" as things stand, then why can only certain AT power combinations with certain outside buffs do things like Solo GMs? Not everyone can, in fact, most cannot. But I hasten to add that I am not suggesting everything be boosted to that level, I bring up the point to highlight that people don't agree where the finish line or goalpost stands. I mean, by what metric do we want to try to balance things? Is it Soloing TFs? GMs/AVs? Not even all builds/ATs can solo +4/8 difficulty, no matter how much INF you put into them or how high of an incarnate you have. 

 

To take where you're going with this further, the game will never be balanced because xp/influence gain was designed wrong from the start so we are just going to have to live with the fact that this game (and most mmo's for that matter) will never be "balanced". Ideally the game would reward you for playing your character well, not for defeating an enemy. If the game could work like that Controllers would get "paid" for how well they control the enemy and support the team, defenders would get paid for how much damage they heal or mitigate on top of doing damage themselves, tanks would get paid for how much damage they prevent their team from taking, etc. A support character should be rewarded for being a good support character, not for doing the same thing a scrapper is always going to be better at, "defeating" an enemy. Think about some of the best support characters you've been teamed with, healers that keep the worst teams alive, bubblers that never let the bubbles drop. Or tanks that know how to move from group to group and force coned attacks to fire off in the direction opposite their team all while maintaining most of the aggro. For me at least it would make certain ATs or builds within ATs much more enjoyable to know I would be getting rewarded for being good at my role even if I couldn't damage anything.

 

Of course, trying to come up with a system to reward players this way would be quite a challenge but I think it would be doable. Solo missions for example could take your AT into account and give you your rewards based on the role of that AT. Support characters could be provided with NPCs who can provide damage and the support character could be rewarded for healing and buffing the NPC and for controlling the enemy. Think how much xp/inf a support character could earn while trying to keep Fusionette alive! Increasing the difficult level in situations like that might give the support character more xp/inf. for doing there thing while making the NPC simultaneously weaker and harder to support. 

 

Of course a system like that would require a complete reworking of code for any existing game so it will never happen but I'd love to see a game do this. If anyone knows of a good one that offers rewards in this way let me know!

[MoonSheep]

51 minutes ago, melancholicmoods said:

Decent IOs aren't affordable to anyone that isn't being bankrolled by either someone else or yourself if you've already made a ton of influence on another character. That's not much different than when it was SOs and friends with more influence would help their poorer teammates with keeping their SOs in the green.

 

i’m not sure i agree, IO prices are incredibly low on HC they’re on the verge of being free even for good sets - e.g Mako’s Bite for a few thousand inf. when i made my first alt i was able to fully kit it out with purple/attuned IOs in less than a few weeks of casual play with no farming/AE exploits. IOs have halved in price since that time

 

personally, i’d remove the IO conversion function - it has muted the fun of receiving a rare IO and contributed to the auto-win low price of enhancements. i feel without it, prices would rise slightly to a more appropriate level for end-game enhancing

[melancholicmoods]

23 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i’m not sure i agree, IO prices are incredibly low on HC they’re on the verge of being free even for good sets - e.g Mako’s Bite for a few thousand inf. when i made my first alt i was able to fully kit it out with purple/attuned IOs in less than a few weeks of casual play with no farming/AE exploits. IOs have halved in price since that time

 

personally, i’d remove the IO conversion function - it has muted the fun of receiving a rare IO and contributed to the auto-win low price of enhancements. i feel without it, prices would rise slightly to a more appropriate level for end-game enhancing

A Mako's Bite Accuracy/Damage is selling for an average of 1.25 to 1.5 million right now. That's pretty typical from what I've seen over the last year. Recipe's for a Mako's Bite Accuracy/Damage are at the time of me writing this showing between 50-100k but I tried buying one at that as a test and had to go up to 300k to grab one. If you're patient you could wait it out and hope for the best but there were only 57 available for sale (lvl 50 recipe). Then you have to either have had the right salvage drop or buy it and then you have to pay for creating it. For that recipe you don't need much for salvage but it's still a few thousand more for that. Then you need another 490k to build it so you looking at around 800k just to make that one IO. Everything is relative and what's expensive for someone isn't for someone else but that doesn't seem that cheap to me. When you look at putting IOs accross an entire build that's still going to be millions of influence which is out of reach for the casual player. In fact it's more likely a casual player won't even go to the trouble of figuring out how to buy a recipe and build it and would be more likely to just buy the enhancement straight out. More experienced players that know they want to exempler down a lot would likely buy the enhancement as an attuned as well, unless they happen to be sitting on a treasure trove of catalysts. So now your looking at 9 million just to fill one six slotted power with IOs. If that's cheap to you I wish I had your influence. 

[MoonSheep]

31 minutes ago, melancholicmoods said:

A Mako's Bite Accuracy/Damage is selling for an average of 1.25 to 1.5 million right now. That's pretty typical from what I've seen over the last year. Recipe's for a Mako's Bite Accuracy/Damage are at the time of me writing this showing between 50-100k but I tried buying one at that as a test and had to go up to 300k to grab one. If you're patient you could wait it out and hope for the best but there were only 57 available for sale (lvl 50 recipe). Then you have to either have had the right salvage drop or buy it and then you have to pay for creating it. For that recipe you don't need much for salvage but it's still a few thousand more for that. Then you need another 490k to build it so you looking at around 800k just to make that one IO. Everything is relative and what's expensive for someone isn't for someone else but that doesn't seem that cheap to me. When you look at putting IOs accross an entire build that's still going to be millions of influence which is out of reach for the casual player. In fact it's more likely a casual player won't even go to the trouble of figuring out how to buy a recipe and build it and would be more likely to just buy the enhancement straight out. More experienced players that know they want to exempler down a lot would likely buy the enhancement as an attuned as well, unless they happen to be sitting on a treasure trove of catalysts. So now your looking at 9 million just to fill one six slotted power with IOs. If that's cheap to you I wish I had your influence. 

 

if you "Buy It Nao" the prices will always be higher, they can easily be had for well under 50,000, see below. they were a few thousand before i bought a bunch (can't remember why i wanted them at the time)                                  

 

 

i logged on real quick onto my dom and killed a mob of cimerorans and added up how much inf i received;

 

41,713 (7 minions)
82,016 (4 luts)
256,324 (3 bosses)

total (without any drops) 380,053

 

a single mob provides almost enough inf to craft one Makos Bite, killing another two would provide enough inf to purchase the recipe, the rare salvage and all the remaining salvage. this mob had a higher than average amount of bosses, so lets say it takes 5 mobs per IO, even without any recipe or rare salvage drops

 

this means every 20-30 mobs killed, a full set of a great IO like Mako's Bite can be had - about the same as two missions

[huang3721]

15 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

if you "Buy It Nao" the prices will always be higher, they can easily be had for well under 50,000, see below.

 

Interesting.

 

How long does it take from placing your bid to getting the items? If want to place a bid on that item on 10 separate occasions, what is the average waiting time?

 

I start building around level 20. How much a Lv 20 mob can provide me with inf*?

[The_Warpact]

6 hours ago, Herotu said:

I feel that. What do you think they could do in future, to improve the state of the game? Revert to pre-incarnates? Waste all that expensive development work, not to mention all the effort players have put into grinding the powers? ... I think we're a shark now, we can only move forwards. What that means ... I think it would be great to have a big old  discussion on THAT topic.

Well thats more of a suggestion thing, really I'd wrap up the whole incarnate thing. Make the final big bad Mot, Battalion, Rularuu, whoever and have it as the final battle.

Then concentrate on making more paths ie missions, TFs/SFs, to get there. Eventually everyone is going to hit T4 and really there's only so many times you can run the same itrials over and over. 

Pretty soon you're going to get sick of it, especially having to grind them for threads to get to T4 which once again playing the same itrials. Or introduce smaller itrials that are not dependent upon a league to complete.  Really there is too many league type things floating around. Yeah they can be done but with smaller populations it's not appealing. 

 

Alot of stuff can be done that's just top of my head.

 

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, huang3721 said:

 

Interesting.

 

How long does it take from placing your bid to getting the items? If want to place a bid on that item on 10 separate occasions, what is the average waiting time?

 

I start building around level 20. How much a Lv 20 mob can provide me with inf*?

First - let me tell you - good questions! 
Second, let me also tell you - the time will vary. 

If I may be so bold, I realize that most do not play this way - but consider thinking about your character early - and the powers you will want, and what you'll slot in them. Consider using Mids Reborn. The values Mids may give from time to time may have an error here or there, but it does let you see which IOs you would need/want, and you can bid on those before you even make the character. A lot depends on how you do things. 

In my case, my farmer will tend to have more influence than any of my characters, so the farmer usually ends up placing the bids on the items I'll want that aren't already stored in my base. I tend to favor the attuned sets for leveling, unless I'm PLing to 50. (rarely)  And since I can't craft attuned IOs, I buy them. 

If the item is a pvp IO, I might buy the level 10 recipe and craft it. Tends to be much cheaper that way. And, once I reach level 10, if it's not one of those proc-types, I'll just catalyze it to make it attuned. Usually that's still cheaper than buying it attuned. 

The longer you have the lower bids placed before you need them, the more likely it is you will get what you want at the lower price. Patience is the key. 

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

Also worth keeping in mind... A lot of Old Timers have on some pretty thick Nostalgia Goggles when it comes to the City.

Those "Good Old Days" definitely had some issues of their own. They weren't a perfect wonderland of gloriously team-centric HappyHappy JoyJoy. 

This post reminded me of my thoughts when issue 4 came out. I was so blissfully ignorant that I had no idea I was truly clueless about what I was doing. It saddens me to say, I had more fun when I knew next to nothing about how to play. I had more fun when I didn't know you should slot 1-2 accuracies, 3 damages and 1-2 recharges. (before Inventions, of course) 

When issue 4 changed things, I complained. In writing. I told them I had bought the game in a certain state. The fact that they changed the game post purchase was clearly a bait and switch. I mean, at that time, it never occurred to me in a million years a company would plan to change the game they had spent years developing. To put in context, prior to CoH, the only computer game I'd played besides chess was Centurion, defenders of Rome and Leisure Suit Larry. I bought those games, and they didn't change. Never occurred to me that CoH would. I was just ignorant. Now, I'm not ignorant, but I'm certainly prone to being obtuse. 

With every patch that comes out, I am against it. It still riles me up that they change the game. It's like that line from Guys and Dolls: "You women, as soon as you find a guy you love, you gotta take him in for alterations." 
They love the game so much, they gotta change it. Maybe they didn't love it as much as they thought. 

That said, eventually, generally about 2-3 months after, when I've adapted to the changes, I usually come to terms with the changes. I still think the "leak" of the SG macro was the best thing that's happened in the HC Dev reign. And the adjustment to it was clever, but needless. (from my perspective - I know, pvp, master badge runs, yada, yada) 
 

So, as much as I might gripe, bitch or moan, I eventually come around. 

[Xiddo]

11 hours ago, lepidopter said:

going to un-lurk, new player here, started playing a couple months ago.  Interesting thread for me, because I've been thinking about some of this stuff as I get to know the game. 

<snip>

Just wanted to say: I'm so happy there are still new people coming to this game and enjoying it.
I started somewhere around I4 and played until about 2010 a lot but went to uni and decided it was probably time to meet people. I didn't do half of the content when it was live cos I was a kid and didn't understand why the big eye-balls could shoot through my ice tank's defence. I'm still learning things about Co* (I only just clocked you could reset combat attributes by right clicking? Idiot). I didn't really do the forums stuff, or keep across the game news, and when I tried to pop back in for quick play one day.... it was gone. The fact that new people get to come back and make silly cow or panda characters/unkillable tankers/game-breaking blasters is rad.

I'm very grateful for the team for trying to do what they feel is best. Do I always agree with them? No - but I didn't agree with getting rid of my imp-army when they changed summons on live #RIP. But being happy Co* back doesn't mean I have to play it all the time. I get bored/ have stuff on/ I'm an adult now. I take breaks really often. Month on, couple off. I love the arcs and SF introduced on HC as much as I love the SSA arcs and Sister Psyche TF. Would I like to see more mid-tier stuff, old TFs getting a look at, more people going red? Sure. I agree that I'd also love some more transparency from the Devs but I can't do anything about that. So when I am here: I'll try and run that under-loved stuff (in my opinion) in the hope of making it fun with what we have. Hell, I still playing Pokemon Red and that's much worse for replayability than this.

Personally, I've found that if I pop onto the Forums when I'm on the bus, thinking about playing when I get home from work, and see loadsa rehashed arguments/ gripes etc then it burns me out or annoys me so much more than someone using an incarnate power on a lvl 45 team. There's a weirdness about this place versus when we're wearing our masks - we're much nicer in FF than the Forums.

Sometimes it feels like people are playing the game, or talking about the game on the forums, until they've burnt out - just because they don't want to try and log on one day and it not be here. I dunno where this was going.

Just my 2 pence.

[Grouchybeast]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i logged on real quick onto my dom and killed a mob of cimerorans and added up how much inf i received;

 

41,713 (7 minions)
82,016 (4 luts)
256,324 (3 bosses)

total (without any drops) 380,053

 

a single mob provides almost enough inf to craft one Makos Bite, killing another two would provide enough inf to purchase the recipe, the rare salvage and all the remaining salvage. this mob had a higher than average amount of bosses, so lets say it takes 5 mobs per IO, even without any recipe or rare salvage drops

 

this means every 20-30 mobs killed, a full set of a great IO like Mako's Bite can be had - about the same as two missions

 

Actually playing level 50 characters is stupidly profitable in CoX.  Just selling level 50 common IO recipes to vendors is stupidly profitable.  If you actually take the time to craft and sell drops on the way up to 50, it's even more stupidly profitable.  I'm not even talking about converter roulette, just checking drops and crafting and selling the ones that will make inf, before you even get to merit drops from mission arcs and TFs.  The game is still raining inf just as hard as it did on the live servers, only now it doesn't cost 75 million inf to buy a LotG+rech.

[ZacKing]

16 hours ago, Number Six said:

or not rolling back the i25 small-population streamlining as much or as fast as we should be.

 

Not to be disparaging but the game is still a small population.  It's always going to be a small population.  Thinking you're going to have huge numbers of players is a pipe dream. 

 

16 hours ago, Number Six said:

Half the posters are saying the game is too easy, and we're either making it easier by buffing powers or not rolling back the i25 small-population streamlining as much or as fast as we should be. We're opening up too many options and a lot of them don't get used because everybody gravitates toward the path of least resistance which makes the game easy mode.

 

The other half is saying that we're killing the game by making parts of it harder, hard modes are too difficult, all the powers are getting nerfed, and things like the AE/merit changes make the game far too grindy for a more mature playerbase who doesn't have as much free time. We're trying to take away options and force everybody to play a certain way.

 

You're only listening and taking direction from one group though.  The complaints of the second group you're talking about here are a direct result of listening only to the chosen few in the first group.  It's not hard to see that.

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, Ukase said:

With every patch that comes out, I am against it. It still riles me up that they change the game. It's like that line from Guys and Dolls: "You women, as soon as you find a guy you love, you gotta take him in for alterations." 
They love the game so much, they gotta change it. Maybe they didn't love it as much as they thought.

 

Change is painful at times.  Not knowing what's coming, not knowing how or if we can adapt, it's unpleasant.  Routine is comfortable, and comforting.  Uncertainty is terrifying.

 

But change is also growth, and routine, that's just another word for stagnation.  Change is necessary.  It makes us sharper, forces us to develop new skills and refine existing ones, and drives us to be more than we were.  It helps us become better, not just as players, but as people.  And that makes it worthwhile, worth enduring, worth adapting.

[Number Six]

23 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

You're only listening and taking direction from one group though.  The complaints of the second group you're talking about here are a direct result of listening only to the chosen few in the first group.  It's not hard to see that.

 

If we were only listening to the first group, there's a lot of stuff we could do very quickly that would be a lot more extreme. There's a reason vet XP is still a thing that gives you a stupid number of Empyrean merits and basically free Incarnate powers, that merit costs are an order of magnitude lower than they were on retail, that the salvage market is seeded to set price caps, that 2XP boosters are still basically free, that AE still has a standard rewards option, etc, etc.

[Bionic_Flea]

But Six, if you would only listen to me everything would be better.

[EmperorSteele]

I nominate Flea for Grand Arbiter! Let he who is flea decide what is best for we!

[Oubliette_Red]

16 hours ago, Number Six said:

I just want to say that I find something about this thread extremely amusing.

 

Half the posters are saying the game is too easy, and we're either making it easier by buffing powers or not rolling back the i25 small-population streamlining as much or as fast as we should be. We're opening up too many options and a lot of them don't get used because everybody gravitates toward the path of least resistance which makes the game easy mode.

 

The other half is saying that we're killing the game by making parts of it harder, hard modes are too difficult, all the powers are getting nerfed, and things like the AE/merit changes make the game far too grindy for a more mature playerbase who doesn't have as much free time. We're trying to take away options and force everybody to play a certain way.

 

So I'm going to choose to believe both of them even though they're polar opposites, because that's what makes this a great community.

 

I too believe both sides.

 

I don't play Hard Mode for the simple reason that I play to relax, not to get frustrated to the point where I want to chuck my laptop across the room.

Some aspects of the game are too easy which is why I love that in CoH you have the ability to scale the difficulty to suit your own particular play style.

 

I disagree with @The_Warpact with regards to Going Rogue, side-switching was a way for players to continue their characters stories. CoH after all is an RPG where I've seen a lot more players dedicate their play style to 'RP' more than any other MMORPG I've played. I actually wish that more MMO's that have 'redsides/bluesides' allowed for side-switching. And I think folks would have a better time with Goldside if it weren't for the broken contact system where you can easily get locked out of content if you don't turn off XP gain.

 

[ZacKing]

11 minutes ago, Number Six said:

If we were only listening to the first group, there's a lot of stuff we could do very quickly that would be a lot more extreme. There's a reason vet XP is still a thing that gives you a stupid number of Empyrean merits and basically free Incarnate powers, that merit costs are an order of magnitude lower than they were on retail, that the salvage market is seeded to set price caps, that 2XP boosters are still basically free, that AE still has a standard rewards option, etc, etc.

 

Uh huh.  Losing Vet XP in AE or losing the emp merit conversion or both wasn't a compromise though.  It's still getting nerfed, the players just got to sort of pick which one and told that is a compromise because "we listen."  Solo players who primarily are interested in solo play lost out on those bonus merits from converting and are being told "just run iTrials now" as compensation.  That's trying to herd people into a specific way of play.  I know you all don't see it that way so whatever.  And for free incarnate powers, so what?  That's great if it's what you're into.  Quite a lot of players aren't chasing incarnates.  As for the rest, I'm sure all that stuff is on your chopping block at some point.  Gotta make the game a boring grind!  That'll really draw in the big crowds.....

[arcane]

9 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Uh huh.  Losing Vet XP in AE or losing the emp merit conversion or both wasn't a compromise though.  It's still getting nerfed, the players just got to sort of pick which one and told that is a compromise because "we listen."  Solo players who primarily are interested in solo play lost out on those bonus merits from converting and are being told "just run iTrials now" as compensation.  That's trying to herd people into a specific way of play.  I know you all don't see it that way so whatever.  And for free incarnate powers, so what?  That's great if it's what you're into.  Quite a lot of players aren't chasing incarnates.  As for the rest, I'm sure all that stuff is on your chopping block at some point.  Gotta make the game a boring grind!  That'll really draw in the big crowds.....

Ugh. Weren’t you one of the ones allegedly playing on a different server now.

[espectro]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

Ugh. Weren’t you one of the ones allegedly playing on a different server now.

What's it to you Trollio

 

 

[ZacKing]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

Ugh. Weren’t you one of the ones allegedly playing on a different server now.

 

Yup.  Have been for a long time now.  I don't log in much here anymore since most people I know moved on to other servers or just stopped playing because of poor design decisions that outweighed any of the good stuff.  Playing on those other servers gives you a pretty good perspective on the game though.  All of the servers are doing good things and bad things.  Last time I checked, it's still ok to come here and let the people know what we think they're doing right and what they're doing wrong, if that's ok with you of course? 

[Black Zot]

45 minutes ago, Number Six said:

 

If we were only listening to the first group, there's a lot of stuff we could do very quickly that would be a lot more extreme. There's a reason vet XP is still a thing that gives you a stupid number of Empyrean merits and basically free Incarnate powers, that merit costs are an order of magnitude lower than they were on retail, that the salvage market is seeded to set price caps, that 2XP boosters are still basically free, that AE still has a standard rewards option, etc, etc.

 

As pointed out above, "you don't like losing this so we'll gut that instead" is not a compromise.  It's a concession.  You can't meet someone halfway when they're walking away from you.  

 

The devs claimed when they started working on hardmode stuff that they weren't going to move the whole game toward City of Dark Souls.  Page 4 has made it clear they were lying.