"Do-it-all" AT?

[biostem]

So after having finally gotten almost every AT into Incarnates, one thing that has come to my realization is that I prefer to play a character that can provide some benefit to their team, besides damage.  Yes, I know that "a defeated mob can't harm anybody", but I'm referring more to mid-fight kind of stuff.  To that end, what I have found is a particular love of radiation armor and how Ground Zero heals your allies.  On my tankers, it also serves to draw even more aggro to them, and on my sentinels, it supplements Warmth or Rehabilitating Circuit.  I like the powerful buffs defenders, corruptors, and controllers bring to the table, but it's much more difficult to lead a team from the front with one of them, (excepting a few specialized builds).  What are your thoughts on a frontline leader or "Do-anything AT"?  Thanks for reading!

[Vexxillion]

A melee Fortunata feels like it can do a lot of everything while also leading the charge.

[Ironblade]

I would say that leading the team (literally leading from the front and taking the alpha) is a specific benefit to the team and that has value itself.  If you really want to do that AND provide other benefits to the team, aside from the powers you mentioned, I would also suggest the Leadership pool.  It's not great on scrappers or brutes but tanks get the same modifiers as controllers.

 

Aside from physically leading, I think corrupters bring a lot of benefit.  They can buff or debuff and, in long fights when scourge can come into play, they punch above their weight class.  They are so useful that I made a beam rifle/kinetics corrupter JUST for Really Hard Way badge runs of the Magisterium iTrial.

[Lazarillo]

I feel like, given the nature of Time's Juncture helping to make you surprisingly tanky (especially on a Defender, but on other ATs as well if well-supplemented), pretty much anything involving Time Manipulation is gonna do you pretty well as a sort of front-line support.  The big weakness it has is mez protection at least until endgame and Clarion becomes a thing (and even then if you don't like being covered in rings, I guess).  I suspect Faraday Cage might mean similar with Electric Affinity, especially since it does have mez protection built in, but I haven't played much of said set.

 

Also, this might be blasphemous to suggest around here, but it might be worth noting that the Rebirth community also has the Guardian AT, which is basically an attempt at a sort of wide-range emulation of VEATs (combining Assault sets and "defense" powers that incorporate benefits to your team), and fit the roll you're thinking of fairly well, to my mind.

[Clave Dark 5]

I may suffer from something of a damage bias after playign so many squishies, so I like to still have some of that in my back pocket while doing whatever else I can to eff up anyone the team rolls over.  That said, I've found Doms often feel like well-rounded ATs, depending on build - solid crunch with useful Pets, and Holds or whatever else they bring.

[Pyriold]

Try a robot/cold MM. Robots can take alpha, so you can still kinda "charge". At the same time /cold can do a lot of good for your team. Instead of cold you can use force fields or time for basically the same effect, you just should be able to provide some def buff for your bots in order to bring them over soft cap.

 

In place of robots you could also use thugs, you will even have your own brute then so you still can have some melee. Robots and thugs are the best for this i think, though beasts and demons might work as well.

[MoonSheep]

i like my mind/fire/ice dom

 

the best crowd control, very high damage, a nice -res debuff from sleet and i picked up veng to harvest my nutrient rich teammates should one fall

[Sir Myshkin]

If you're looking for a role that can both break the ice on an alpha attack while also taking the alpha damage, but also provide assistance/support to the team then you've got a heft checkbook to balance.

 

There's a lot of difference between leading a team, leading the team, and being the lead of a team.

• Leading a team is to be the individual ahead, the scout, the one who creates initial debuff, potentially an ice breaker before a tank. A roll like this one is often going to be one that coincides with a Tanker/Brute for alpha absorption, they will be following the Tanker's lead of direction, but they will keep the pace ahead to prep contact with things like Disorients, sleeps, confuses, debuffs. In some cases with a dual-tank team, one tank will lead ahead while the other leads into.
• Leading the team is to be point, you take the alpha break on damage for each spawn, absorb and contain, group the spawn and create initial contact. You are the one that decides which path, hallway, room, enemy, spawn, where, and when.
• Being the lead of a team is to give direction, organize, create direction and command, call all the shots and make all the decisions for the team even if you yourself are not the one actually in the front charge, but telling the Tank where to go. For a role to not be the front line and be the lead they are likely a heavy support character that can't take that alpha.

Can all of these roles exist in one? Yes, but it takes a sturdy build to be something that will open up opportunity for support fixture and tank at the same time. You'd likely be looking at a very robust Defender, Corruptor, or Controller to pull it off, but a Defender would likely be the easiest to accomplish of the three numbers wise while Controller would probably play the easiest with a high enough recharging build for its mass AoE mez effects. Another option that may be worth considering as far as a sturdy ice-breaker, but one that doesn't necessarily have the same level of "team support" is a Sentinel. It can be built strong, have an assortment of good AoE options and be able to create fire from any position so they can bounce around easily. Only thing with these options is that none of them can control aggro like a Tanker or Brute can, and this is a minor short coming. You can make up with this in a small way by creating what's called a "Tankermind", a Mastermind that uses Provoke and Bodyguard to effectively tank while its minions act as both sponge and assault formation, letting the MM to utilize their secondary for everything else and maybe throw in an occasional attack too.

 

1. With that being said Mastermind is the closest to being able to Lead, Lead, and be the Lead. These are however not a playstyle that fits everyone as they are very... different.
2. Certain Sentinel builds can potentially get their design right to pull off all three assuming they either have some way to gather aggro, or pick up Provoke.
3. A Defender (Corr/Troller) can lead a team, and be the lead, but will have a hard time lead the team due to insufficient capacity to handle and absorb aggro.
4. Tankers can lead the team, and be a sturdy leader, and if you choose the right epic there are a few combinations that give them options for control that can also give you a good collection of build choice to be a support role as well making them a sub-generalist if you want.

[Snarky]

I think this conversation is always prejudiced.   Most likely not in the way whatever just came to your mind is

 

in my view City of X has become multiple games.  This is actually a good thing.  The efforts of the current (and past, but a lot of credit to present) Dev staff have made the game very customizable with teams and leagues picking their level of difficulty 

 

So…. The conversation is prejudiced based on what level you are playing at.  Because a modern ITF at max difficulty is way different than a Really Hard Way Magisterium badge run which is different than a PUG Synapse.  The answer largely depends on the environment you play in.  Yet I would hazrd a guess (dont I always) that most folks will present an answer without mentioning the environment they expect it to operate in

[Shred Monkey]

Nightwidow is an interesting option.  Lots of team buffs that are either a toggles or a long cast/long duration sort.  I pair it with leadership pool to double up on the toggle buffs.  And then during fights I just deal out huge single target damage.  Despite the fact that it has really high defense and buffs everyone around it, it's drawback is that it's not very tanky.  It has low hp and not much for resists, so when it does get hit, it's not good.  Harder content needs to be done with great care.

 

I also really like the way my seismic/martial blaster plays.  I have an AoE toggle slow movement that I've fully enhanced for slows.  This means that not only is it easy to stay out of melee, but everything trying to move to melee gets ghetto-controlled out of the fight because they're going into this full slow motion run instead of attacking.  I can apply this simply by moving near concentrated areas of enemies to get them in range.  In addition I do constant targeted ranged AoE knockdowns with upthrust and rock shards.  This just adds even more mitigation all while dealing blaster level damage.  What really makes this strong is that it's a layer of mitigation that isn't overlapping with my teammate's buffs and debuffs.  Instead of adding *more* defense that's already way over cap, I'm reducing incoming damage above and beyond everything else my team is doing.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Shred Monkey

[Wavicle]

Peacebringer.

No tank? You're the tank.

No heals? You're the healer.

 

Not enough damage? Blow everything up.

[Yaliw]

Demon/cold mastermind does basically everything. Buffs, debuffs, frostworks makes tanks tankier etc. Demons provides resistance, cold provides defense. Just a great combo.

 

Robot/Time is absurdly tanky thanks to Time's Juncture on top of your shields. It's my vote for best tankermind

 

Crab spiders are just all around useful. Good aoe damage, venom grenade, great teamwork buffs, semi-tanky. Just a one-man walking artillery unit.

 

My supportunata is my favorite though. She tanks, she nova's, she buffs, she deals great single target and aoe damage and she has solid control. Her only issue is her low hp and isn't the best at any of those- Just good.

 

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Peacebringer.

No tank? You're the tank.

No heals? You're the healer.

 

Not enough damage? Blow everything up.

*laughs in Warshade*

Edit: Also on my WS: I died? Leave me near those who felled me so I may use their lifeforce to bring myself back to life and gank them all over again.

Edited September 28, 2022 by TygerDarkstorm

[Without_Pause]

There are a number of Controllers who can lead depending on how you play them. Ill and Dark can send in pets. Plant has Seeds. Mind and Elec can use Sleeps to lower alpha strike. I find Controllers to be some of the most versatile ATs the game has. Outside of that, the Epics/VEATs would win out. I love my Fort and all of the stuff he can do.

[Marshal_General]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

*laughs in Warshade*

Edit: Also on my WS: I died? Leave me near those who felled me so I may use their lifeforce to bring myself back to life and gank them all over again.

So your winning strategy is to die first?

[Black Zot]

Just now, Marshal_General said:

So your winning strategy is to die first?

 

I understand that's a standard ploy on some Dark Armor characters, because their self-rez has a giant aoe stun attached.

[High_Beam]

Don't forget the apparent requirement for stealth and ATT so you can do content as fast as possible skipping as much as possible in order to get the Merits/whatever's because its the destination not the journey!  Because leadership is defined by winning not quality of the game right?  Le sigh.

 

Wait, I am not Snarky.

 

Yay everything!

[TygerDarkstorm]

51 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

So your winning strategy is to die first?

No, I did not say that. o_O It was literally an addition to the PB list that, should I be defeated, I can rise again to unleash pain. Edit: You even quoted the part where it says *also on my WS* lol

Edited September 28, 2022 by TygerDarkstorm

[KaizenSoze]

I have a Illusion/Nature controller I am ramping up that can do a lot.

 

Control

Aggro control

Healing

Buffing

Debuffing

 

[SeraphimKensai]

Kheldians exist.

[BurtHutt]

8 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

*laughs in Warshade*

Edit: Also on my WS: I died? Leave me near those who felled me so I may use their lifeforce to bring myself back to life and gank them all over again.

I made a pretty decent WS. I am at a loss when the mobs get melted away and you have an AV or GM to deal with. I don't see the WS being as effective then and there are no bodies around to leech from. Maybe I'm missing something?

[Wavicle]

19 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

I made a pretty decent WS. I am at a loss when the mobs get melted away and you have an AV or GM to deal with. I don't see the WS being as effective then and there are no bodies around to leech from. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

You're not missing anything. You want to try to have a pet or two up when you fight the AV if possible.

In general though, this is the situation where PBs have the advantage.

[biostem]

49 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

I made a pretty decent WS. I am at a loss when the mobs get melted away and you have an AV or GM to deal with. I don't see the WS being as effective then and there are no bodies around to leech from. Maybe I'm missing something?

It's basically the same angst/woes that a D2 necromancer, or any character that relies on bodies/corpses encounters during a long boss fight, with no adds around to replenish their hoards...

Edited September 28, 2022 by biostem

[Songseven]

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Kheldians exist.

             

 

🤪

[TygerDarkstorm]

6 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

I made a pretty decent WS. I am at a loss when the mobs get melted away and you have an AV or GM to deal with. I don't see the WS being as effective then and there are no bodies around to leech from. Maybe I'm missing something?

The others gave you your answers already regarding that. I'm not a hardmode player or someone who soloes AV's or GM's or anything so yeah, my WS would def struggle there. I was referring more packs of mobs. So far I haven't had any issues in regular TF's, but yeah, if you're looking for an AT to melt the hard targets, my beloved WS probably ain't it.