Villain Archetype Names ...

[Herotu]

I know, there are no Villain Archetypes anymore. On the altar of Variety we sacrifice Uniqueness. I understand.

But when City of Villains came out of the production machine, it turned out that the developers had chosen some AT names that don't seem to make sense when rolled by a heroic character.

 

Here are some ATs, for comparison. As you can see, the heroic ATs have very generic names, but the villain ones seem specific to villainy;

 

Blaster

Brute - I guess we can get away with this.

Controller

Corrupter - there's only one interpretation of this name, and it's not heroic.

Dominator -

Defender

Mastermind - 

Scrapper

Stalker - stalking is illegal in my country, I don't know about yours.

Tanker

 

You could say that the developers did a good job of labelling the ATs because they do describe villainy. 

 

Should some of these villain ATs have different names? It's just an itch I have ...

[Greycat]

Nope.

 

I don't care about what the ATs are called. I don't *care.* I've got characters that have absolutely nothing to do with Arachnos that are ... "Soldiers of Arachnos." Any discussion of them where I have to use that are purely OOC. The character is the character, picked for powerset combinations that work for that character.

 

(Also, as far as "Stalker?" Refers to more than just the illegal activity. And I give you one heroic figure from early in another series with it as (part of) his name:)

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Greycat

[Astralock]

15 minutes ago, Herotu said:

I know, there are no Villain Archetypes anymore. On the altar of Variety we sacrifice Uniqueness. I understand.

But when City of Villains came out of the production machine, it turned out that the developers had chosen some AT names that don't seem to make sense when rolled by a heroic character.

 

Here are some ATs, for comparison. As you can see, the heroic ATs have very generic names, but the villain ones seem specific to villainy;

 

Blaster

Brute - I guess we can get away with this.

Controller

Corrupter - there's only one interpretation of this name, and it's not heroic.

Dominator -

Defender

Mastermind - 

Scrapper

Stalker - stalking is illegal in my country, I don't know about yours.

Tanker

 

You could say that the developers did a good job of labelling the ATs because they do describe villainy. 

 

Should some of these villain ATs have different names? It's just an itch I have ...

 

 

/jranger

 

As someone who primarily played City of Villains live, and primarily plays red side now, an absolutely emphatic no.  Red side has already been diluted so much over the years, both by Paragon Studios and Homecoming.  There's no need to take even more of its identity away, and I actually consider it slightly offensive.

[Herotu]

8 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Red side has already been diluted so much over the years, both by Paragon Studios and Homecoming.  There's no need to take even more of its identity away, and I actually consider it slightly offensive.

What does "Diluted" mean in this sense?

 

Also, how is it removing identity to replace the name with something more neutral? You wanted diversity, so you lose uniqueness. I mentioned it in the OP.

 

13 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Nope.

 

I don't care about what the ATs are called. I don't *care.* I've got characters that have absolutely nothing to do with Arachnos that are ... "Soldiers of Arachnos." Any discussion of them where I have to use that are purely OOC. The character is the character, picked for powerset combinations that work for that character.

 

(Also, as far as "Stalker?" Refers to more than just the illegal activity. And I give you one heroic figure from early in another series with it as (part of) his name:)

 

"I don't care because I headcanon" is a teflon reason that can't be defeated so ye. I can respect your opinion even though I don't share it.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Herotu

[Glacier Peak]

The Strangler

 

The Robber

 

The Evil Doer

 

... like that?

[biostem]

40 minutes ago, Herotu said:

But when City of Villains came out of the production machine, it turned out that the developers had chosen some AT names that don't seem to make sense when rolled by a heroic character.

It's not about what you're called, it's about how you use your powers.  Regardless, are AT names ever referenced in-game?  Also, "stalking" does not only refer to the criminal act...

[Glacier Peak]

Then I'd say the names of the Archetypes that were released with CoV were well explained and played to their namesake. Corrupting via debuffs and Scourge, Brutish behavior and Fury, Masterminding nefariously, Domination. The only one that's a little weak is Stalker. Sure that's not good, but maybe the Sneaker! Or Perfidan! Someone who commits perfidy 

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

Stalker - stalking is illegal in my country, I don't know about yours.

@BEGIN(Sarcasm)

Because, as we all know, there can only be one definition for a word, so the other usage "to pursue or approach stealthily", as when hunting, is completely irrelevant. "Run" has more than 600 definitions in the OED, but, like 'stalking', only one of those can be the real definition; all the others are improper use.

@END(Sarcasm)

[Snarky]

And so he says to me, you want to be a bad guy? and I say Yeah Baby! I want to be bad! I says Churchill space ponies I'm making gravy without the lumps! Ah ha ha ha ha haaaaa!!!!!

And he says to me, he says to me, you got Style, baby! but if you're gonna to be a real villain you gotta get a gimmick…and so I go I says Yeah Baby! A gimmick, that's it! High Explosives! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Yeah! Keep playing with fire, superpants, you don't know how much fire you're playing with! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!

So he says to me, you gotta do something smart, baby, something big! He says you want to be a supervillain, right, and I go yeah baby, yeah yeah! What do I gotta do? He says you got bombs, blow up the Comet Club, it's packed with superheroes…you'll go down in supervillain history and I go Yeah baby 'cause I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

And so he says to me, you got legs, baby, you're everywhere…you're all over the place! Yeah!

[Player2]

9 hours ago, Herotu said:

I know, there are no Villain Archetypes anymore. On the altar of Variety we sacrifice Uniqueness. I understand.

But when City of Villains came out of the production machine, it turned out that the developers had chosen some AT names that don't seem to make sense when rolled by a heroic character.

 

Here are some ATs, for comparison. As you can see, the heroic ATs have very generic names, but the villain ones seem specific to villainy;

 

 

Brute - I guess we can get away with this.

Corrupter - there's only one interpretation of this name, and it's not heroic.

Stalker - stalking is illegal in my country, I don't know about yours.

 

Should some of these villain ATs have different names? It's just an itch I have ...

 

Brute:  Of course we can get away with this.   Hulk has been and always will be considered a brute.

 

Corruptor:  Only one interpretation??  One of the definitions for corrupt as a verb is "to alter for the worse"

1. Let's corrupt a villain, thereby making the villain worse at being a villain... thus less villainous.  This would be a good thing from a heroic point of view.  That is an interpretation, so now we have at least 2 interpretations.  I'm sure others can come up with more.
2. Let's also not stress too hard on something being heroic.  Remember that superhero comics are full of anti-hero characters like the Punisher.  You know, someone whose actions might not at all be heroic but these unheroic actions are taken with goals in mind that would be similar to heroic ones (reduce/prevent crime).   Remember, heroes could use guns and flames and radiation and other lethal attacks well before City of Villains was introduced, and we had people joking all the time about "arresting villains to death."

 

Stalker:  Stalking in your country is illegal?  Way to focus on one aspect of that word.  Tell me, is hunting in your country illegal?  Do not hunters stalk their prey?  If we bring animals into this, we can remove morality and legality from the word stalker altogether.  Animals stalk prey.  Many heroes are animal-themed.  Stalking can be used in a variety of ways that would not be looked upon unfavorably:  Crimestalker or Deathstalker.

 

Try not to think of the names of the ATs so literally.  They're creative words meant to describe a playstyle, not job descriptions or potentially criminal behaviors.  It's like D&D classes... I feel like too many people take the classes by name too seriously.  Like let's say I'm a fighter.  Does that mean that a rogue who fights isn't a fighter because only fighters are fighters?  No, it's a meta-term for the players to identify the mechanics of their chosen class.  Everyone who isn't an outright pacifist is a fighter.  Even a wizard who thwacks someone over the head with their staff is a fighter despite not having a single level of the fighter class.  It's just words.  We don't need to change them to fit a certain narrative.

 

[Lines]

If anything, we should be making the original ATs more villainous.

 

Let's see...

 

Blaster = Destructor

Controller = Manipulator

Defender = Troublemaker

Scrapper = Menace

Tank = Brainwashed Henchman

 

Redside bestside.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lines

[JasperStone]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

And so he says to me, you want to be a bad guy? and I say Yeah Baby! I want to be bad! I says Churchill space ponies I'm making gravy without the lumps! Ah ha ha ha ha haaaaa!!!!!

And he says to me, he says to me, you got Style, baby! but if you're gonna to be a real villain you gotta get a gimmick…and so I go I says Yeah Baby! A gimmick, that's it! High Explosives! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Yeah! Keep playing with fire, superpants, you don't know how much fire you're playing with! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!

So he says to me, you gotta do something smart, baby, something big! He says you want to be a supervillain, right, and I go yeah baby, yeah yeah! What do I gotta do? He says you got bombs, blow up the Comet Club, it's packed with superheroes…you'll go down in supervillain history and I go Yeah baby 'cause I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

And so he says to me, you got legs, baby, you're everywhere…you're all over the place! Yeah!

Check the caffeine levels of the red stuff you are sipping ..... a bit worried.

 

Also

You Gotta Get a Gimmick - Gypsy

MAZEPPA:
You can pull all the stops out
Till they call the cops out;
Grind your behind till you're banned.
But you gotta get a gimmick
If you wanna get a hand.
You can sacrifice your saccro
Working in the back row.
Bump in a dump till you're dead.
Kid, you gotta have a gimmick
If you wanna get ahead.

 

You can uh...You can uh...
You can uh...uh...uh...
That's how Burlesque was born.
So I uh...and I uh...
And I uh...uh...uh...
But I do it with a horn...
Once I was a Schleppa,
Now I'm Miss Mazzeppa,
With my revolution in dance.
You gotta have a gimmick
If you wanna have a chance!

ELECTRA:
She can uh... She can uh...
She can uh...uh...uh...
That'll never make her rich.
Me, I uh... and I uh...
And I uh...uh...uh...
But I do it with a switch.
I'm electrifyin',
And I ain't even tryin';
I never have to sweat to get paid;
'Cause if you got a gimmick,
Gypsy girl, you got it made.

TESSIE TURA:
All them uh and then uh...
And that uh...uh...uh...
Ain't gonna spell success;
Me, I uh... and I uh...
And I uh...uh...uh...
But I do it with finesse.
Dressy Tessie Tura is so much more demur-er
Than all them other ladies because--
You gotta get a gimmick
If you wanna get applause.

ALL:
Do something special
Anything special
And you'll get better because...
You're more than just a mimic
When you gotta gimmick
Take a look how different we are!

ELECTRA:
If you wanna make it,
Twinkle while you shake it.

TESSIE TURA:
If you wanna grind it,
Wait till you've refined it.

MAZEPPA:
If you wanna bump it,
Bump it with a trumpet!

ALL:
So get yourself a gimmick and you, too,
Can be a star!

 

 

[Herotu]

15 hours ago, Snarky said:

And so he says to me, you want to be a bad guy? and I say Yeah Baby! I want to be bad! I says Churchill space ponies I'm making gravy without the lumps! Ah ha ha ha ha haaaaa!!!!!

And he says to me, he says to me, you got Style, baby! but if you're gonna to be a real villain you gotta get a gimmick…and so I go I says Yeah Baby! A gimmick, that's it! High Explosives! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Yeah! Keep playing with fire, superpants, you don't know how much fire you're playing with! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!

So he says to me, you gotta do something smart, baby, something big! He says you want to be a supervillain, right, and I go yeah baby, yeah yeah! What do I gotta do? He says you got bombs, blow up the Comet Club, it's packed with superheroes…you'll go down in supervillain history and I go Yeah baby 'cause I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

And so he says to me, you got legs, baby, you're everywhere…you're all over the place! Yeah!

❤️ The Tick, even the live action versionS.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Herotu

[lemming]

44 minutes ago, Herotu said:

❤️ The Tick, even the live action versionS.

When I downsized, my Tick comics were one of the few runs I kept.

 

“Isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!”

 

"I'm here to fight crime, not stop it!"  - this one may be paraphrased.

[cranebump]

How about we make Villain Security Levels have titles that fit their ethos, i.e., 

 

L1=Punk

L5=Douche Bag

L10=Full Blown Douche Bag

L15=Just Plain Douche

L20=Diiiiiiick...

 

And so on...

 

(Hmmm...Now that I think about it, those labels could apply heroside, too, couldn't they?):-)

[Erratic1]

"Assassin" has negative connotation, but that is what James Bond is--an assassin for His Majesty with a license to kill. We root for him because the people he targets are incredibly malign.

 

"Stalking" has more recent negative association, but it merely means to stealthily approach.

 

And it is Forbes telling people, "Why You Need A Mastermind" 😁

[JasperStone]

21 minutes ago, cranebump said:

How about we make Villain Security Levels have titles that fit their ethos, i.e., 

 

L1=Punk

L5=Douche Bag

L10=Full Blown Douche Bag

L15=Just Plain Douche

L20=Diiiiiiick...

 

And so on...

 

(Hmmm...Now that I think about it, those labels could apply heroside, too, couldn't they?):-)

Lvl 50 -  The One Who Knocks

[DougGraves]

I think corruptor is the only bad name.

 

You would think defender would be buffs and heals and corruptor would be debuffs.  But that's not how it works.

 

 

[Nayeh]

7 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I think corruptor is the only bad name.

 

You would think defender would be buffs and heals and corruptor would be debuffs.  But that's not how it works.

 

 

A Corruptor can help further corrupt agendas by aiding other dark figures working toward their cause. Like a back-ally doctor who uses their knowledge and expertise to mend the ailments of another figure among their ranks. What if (leader of their underworld army) needs a heart transplant? There are plenty of 'heroes' running around with healthy hearts ripe for the taking.

 

Providing aid in this form helps further the pursuit of corruption while maintaining numbers and key members.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Nayeh

[RikOz]

Well, D&D did change "Thief" to "Rogue". Mostly to make the class more neutral (I mean, "I play a lawful good thief" sounds kinda funny), but partly, I suspect, as a counter to those players who thought playing a "thief" meant that they needed to be all-thieving, all the time, stealing from the party...

[Seed22]

This is how I know people are just coming up with crap to whine about. What next?  Natural should mean only temp powers?

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I think corruptor is the only bad name.

 

You would think defender would be buffs and heals and corruptor would be debuffs.  But that's not how it works.

 

 

I am settling into a Dark Dark Corruptor as my main.  Yes, I heal.  Mostly myself, I am rarely near teammates.  Then I have a self heal.  Everything I do is vampiric, or channeled from the dark plane of death.  Or so it seems to me.  Corruptor fits, for me.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Snarky

[biostem]

6 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I think corruptor is the only bad name.

 

You would think defender would be buffs and heals and corruptor would be debuffs.  But that's not how it works.

TBH, the names are more flavor than anything, really.  Even before all ATs, (save EATs), were made available to both sides, Corruptors clearly had sets that didn't necessarily corrupt anything.  I mean, Defenders don't necessarily provide defense, so I wouldn't read too much into the names...

[biostem]

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Corruptor fits, for me.

Obviously you're a Peacebringer at heart, (though that may be someone else's heart, now that I think about it)...

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

You'll be healing teammates all the time before you know it. Put the Theft of Essence proc in Twilight Grasp (it's in the build), and then work it into your attack chain whenever you can. 

Right now I have Theft proc and Corr ATO +end proc in Life Drain. And an Acc and 2Dam.  The power hits like a truck heals me and usually gives me end back, sometimes a lot.  I am still a Blaster at heart when things get ugly lol.  But I am seriously learning how to cycle and use the debuffs to get the most out if them