Pylon Damage Thread

[SomeGuy]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

You are all correct. Still can't bring myself to do it. Probably because if I do fall down this procmonster hole I wouldn't be able to crawl back out of it.

It's fun down here. There is cake.

[nihilii]

482 DPS on very first try with a Bio/EM Tanker running... Vigor/Barrier. Damn. What? Damn!!

 

Using TF -> ET -> EP -> Gloom -> BS -> EP, procced out. Assault Hybrid clicked. Would post more details, but will likely get to T4 and try more Pylons first.

 

Damn.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Is this the accurate equation for DPS conversion from time? 38346.4375/time + 127.825 =

[Bopper]

10 hours ago, nihilii said:

482 DPS on very first try with a Bio/EM Tanker running... Vigor/Barrier. Damn. What? Damn!!

 

Using TF -> ET -> EP -> Gloom -> BS -> EP, procced out. Assault Hybrid clicked. Would post more details, but will likely get to T4 and try more Pylons first.

 

Damn.

How are you slotting BS, EP, and ET? I would think you could get more DPS with TF>ET>BS>Gloom>ET...however I'm guessing you're minimizing recharge in ET for max procing. If that's the case, maybe TF>ET>BS>EP>Gloom>ET>EP is enough to rely on global recharge while fitting one more ET in your chain.

[Bopper]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Is this the accurate equation for DPS conversion from time? 38346.4375/time + 127.825 =

 127.8214583333...

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bopper

[nihilii]

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

How are you slotting BS, EP, and ET?

4 damage procs + IO dam + dam/end (dam/acc for ET). Like you say, I like minimizing recharge on ET for max proccing, but I also like to avoid the HP drain and a second lengthy animation. The second EP is replaced for misc clicks.

[Pzn]

7 hours ago, Bopper said:

How are you slotting BS, EP, and ET? I would think you could get more DPS with TF>ET>BS>Gloom>ET...however I'm guessing you're minimizing recharge in ET for max procing. If that's the case, maybe TF>ET>BS>EP>Gloom>ET>EP is enough to rely on global recharge while fitting one more ET in your chain.

I'm guessing that on his build TF is recharging somewhere around 5s so his chain is constructed to fill that time window.  If he added in an additional (slow) energy transfer it would stretch out the length of the chain and delay the next TF and lessen the overall frequency of quick ETs and gloom.

Edited March 8, 2021 by josh1622

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, josh1622 said:

I'm guessing that on his build TF is recharging somewhere around 5s so his chain is constructed to fill that time window.  If he added in an additional (slow) energy transfer it would stretch out the length of the chain and delay the next TF and lessen the overall frequency of quick ETs and gloom.

For proc builds, assuming TF is also proc'd heavily, I'm thinking 6-7s on cooldown. The thing to not forget. Slow ET is still one of the very best DPA attacks, so adding it more often is not necessarily a bad thing. However, without knowing proc slotting amd the builds recharge, it's impossible to know what exactly is optimal. This is why I'm not recommending anything, more just suggestions to look at.

[BrandX]

Decided to run my Elec/Bio/Mu Stalker through a Pylon Run, just to see where she's at currently w/ what she has.

 

Opened w/ Build Up -> Lightning Rod before going into Assassin's Shock > Havoc Punch > Chain Induction > Zapp > Havoc Punch > Repeat using DNA Siphon and Build Up whenever they were recharged.

 

Currently:

Tier 4 Musculature Radial

Tier 3 Preemptive Partial Radial (50% Energy / 25% Recovery) (I could go -HP/Toxic for concept as well, but I wanted to see how the Recovery Debuff w/ Elec Melee and Musculature's EndMod)

 

4:19 for a 275.88 DPS

 

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

For proc builds, assuming TF is also proc'd heavily, I'm thinking 6-7s on cooldown. The thing to not forget. Slow ET is still one of the very best DPA attacks, so adding it more often is not necessarily a bad thing. However, without knowing proc slotting amd the builds recharge, it's impossible to know what exactly is optimal. This is why I'm not recommending anything, more just suggestions to look at.

Slow ET is better than everything besides gloom and fast ET DPA wise even when you include procs (when I've built it).  I was just roughly guessing the length of ET -> EP -> Gloom -> BS -> EP and assuming TFs cooldown time from that.  Closer to 6-7 with arcana time like you said.  But adding a 2nd ET to that chain would make the time between TF closer to 10s and also mean you use fast ET and gloom less.  Gloom is especially high DPA with procs so it's normally a net loss to not hit it on cooldown.

 

I'm just speculating on what he's thinking because I tried to heavily proc EM before deciding it wasn't worth it.  It's so powerful already I just use the attack chain you mentioned at first: TF>ET>BS>Gloom>ET.

 

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

It's so powerful already I just use the attack chain you mentioned at first: TF>ET>BS>Gloom>ET.

It certainly is a doable chain, getting ET down to 2.772s recharge requires about +261% recharge. Easy to do if slotting recharge, hard to do if not. But with enough recharge bonuses from other sources (ageless, hasten, base empowerment, lotg, purples) you could maybe get there. Might want Adrenal Booster to help in both damage and added recharge.

[Coyote]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:55 AM, SomeGuy said:

It's fun down here. There is cake.

 

Is the cake proc'd? Or just processed?

[Hew]

450dps from a bio/enm tank with no musculature or assault hybrid is kinda scary.

 

TANK.

 

[Sovera]

22 minutes ago, Hew said:

450dps from a bio/enm tank with no musculature or assault hybrid is kinda scary.

 

TANK.

 

Assault hybrid was clicked, but yes.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Took my claws/bio scrapper to beta and replaced the current slotting of his attacks with 1 acc/dam HO and as many damage procs as I could find.

It only lowered my average pylon time by 10 seconds so it looks like I need not pursue procmonstering any of my claws users.

[Rejolt]

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Took my claws/bio scrapper to beta and replaced the current slotting of his attacks with 1 acc/dam HO and as many damage procs as I could find.

It only lowered my average pylon time by 10 seconds so it looks like I need not pursue procmonstering any of my claws users.

I thought this was the default thinking if a character's base damage was higher you could largely avoid procs in  your damaging powers. Perhaps room for 1 as part of a set or you're already in the 90-120 dmg range (includes Alpha slotting).

[Bill Z Bubba]

26 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

I thought this was the default thinking if a character's base damage was higher you could largely avoid procs in  your damaging powers. Perhaps room for 1 as part of a set or you're already in the 90-120 dmg range (includes Alpha slotting).

To be fair, (I really can't say that anymore without thinking about Letterkenny,) my standard slotting is 5 purples (- the dam only) and an extra proc, so maybe going from 2 procs to 4 or 5 may not be that big of a deal.

 

However, based on what I've read, it may more be due to the low base recharge on claws' attacks that's lessening the impact of procs. Perhaps if I had a fully proced eviscerate in the build I'd see more of a difference.

[Frosticus]

35 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Took my claws/bio scrapper to beta and replaced the current slotting of his attacks with 1 acc/dam HO and as many damage procs as I could find.

It only lowered my average pylon time by 10 seconds so it looks like I need not pursue procmonstering any of my claws users.

Generally what you'd strive to do is build enough global tohit/acc that you don't need any in your powers. You still want to ED cap (or close) your damage enhancement in each power. So with musculature you'd still want to see around 110-120% damage enhancement. Then you layer on the procs. 

 

Only defenders and brutes have procs clearly superior to damage enhancements (corrs and trollers both critical which doubles damage enhancement effectiveness and muddies the water)

 

That said, some builds benefit more from procs than others and in almost all cases proc performance is greatly overstated on the forums as the increase in performance is surpassed by the decrease in other metrics. 

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Took my claws/bio scrapper to beta and replaced the current slotting of his attacks with 1 acc/dam HO and as many damage procs as I could find.

It only lowered my average pylon time by 10 seconds so it looks like I need not pursue procmonstering any of my claws users.

Just one? You mean your damage was at 83% with Musculature 45%. Of course you're not seeing improvements. Instead try two acc/dmg hamis at +3  and push it to 119%, then Musculature 45%. For a pylon you can slot Achilles -res in Slash (outside of pylons just another damage proc but that's me), then Hectacomb damage proc, Touch of Death proc and the PvP proc.

 

Focus is tight in recharge and I'd just slot five purples plus FF proc.

 

Follow-up what ever you slot (I used three scrapper ATOs for the 5% S/L, try to maximized recharge despite running counter to proc usage because FU is the linchpin), plus the Scrapper ATO that gives increased crit chance, plus Gaussian proc (it's not a huge thing, but...).

 

I'd stick to FU, Focus, Slash even with the small gap FU gets. When FF procs the gap won't be there. Despite Shockwave allowing a -res I don't feel it is good to use it in a ST rotation.

 

Edit: I hadn't touched a Scrapper in ages and went to mess with my old build since Tanker and Scrapper get different recharge times. Turning it into a proc monster wasn't that hard so feel free to lift the slotting, and it keeps the (near) 40% defense to most things and decent-ish S/L resists. For regular play DNA Siphon should keep endurance up but for extended ST like a pylon I'd keep Recovery Serums at hand. I'd keep Barrier for a panic button and to finish propping the defenses to 45%.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(47)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), UnbGrd-Max HP%(5), GldArm-3defTpProc(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 2: Slash -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(7), AchHee-ResDeb%(9), TchofLadG-%Dam(9), TchofDth-Dam%(11), Hct-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(15), Rct-ResDam%(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29)
Level 6: Spin -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(17), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Arm-Acc/Rchg(19), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(21)
Level 8: Follow Up -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(25), GssSynFr--Build%(27)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(15), Rct-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(33), Prv-Absorb%(33)
Level 18: Focus -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(33), Apc-Dam%(34), GldJvl-Dam%(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34), ExpStr-Dam%(36)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctArm-ResDam(29), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Inexhaustible -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Erd-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 32: Shockwave -- SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(39), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(40), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit(45)
Level 38: Genetic Contamination -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(49)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(50), Rct-Def(50)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(45)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
------------

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Sovera

[Pzn]

9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Took my claws/bio scrapper to beta and replaced the current slotting of his attacks with 1 acc/dam HO and as many damage procs as I could find.

It only lowered my average pylon time by 10 seconds so it looks like I need not pursue procmonstering any of my claws users.

The biggest performance boost from procs on claws really comes from follow up.  Since it doesn't do a lot of damage to begin with it really benefits from being loaded out.  And it's recharge is more favorable towards procs than most of the attacks.   Even though the results are good with claws it's not a set I would normally fully proc out because you have to run an unconventional attack chain to see substantial gains from it.  You might find a good compromise by only slotting out FU with procs.  I was using FU>focus>shockwave>moonbeam>FU>focus>shockwave>slash, but had to make huge sacrifices in my build to make it work.

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, josh1622 said:

The biggest performance boost from procs on claws really comes from follow up.  Since it doesn't do a lot of damage to begin with it really benefits from being loaded out.  And it's recharge is more favorable towards procs than most of the attacks.   Even though the results are good with claws it's not a set I would normally fully proc out because you have to run an unconventional attack chain to see substantial gains from it.  You might find a good compromise by only slotting out FU with procs.  I was using FU>focus>shockwave>moonbeam>FU>focus>shockwave>slash, but had to make huge sacrifices in my build to make it work.

 

For sure put the scrapper chance to crit and gaussian chance to build up in follow up. Those go off and numbers go WOOOO.

[Pzn]

On 3/8/2021 at 2:53 PM, Bopper said:

It certainly is a doable chain, getting ET down to 2.772s recharge requires about +261% recharge. Easy to do if slotting recharge, hard to do if not. But with enough recharge bonuses from other sources (ageless, hasten, base empowerment, lotg, purples) you could maybe get there. Might want Adrenal Booster to help in both damage and added recharge.

You could still slot TF with recharge since it's well over capped for proc chances on 3.5 PPM IOs.  Not sure exactly how much recharge you can get away with before you start losing proc chance but I would guess a decent amount since it has a 20s cooldown and 2.5s cast time.  If mid's estimate is right then the proc chances are pretty good even when TF has capped out recharge slotting.

[Bopper]

16 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

You could still slot TF with recharge since it's well over capped for proc chances on 3.5 PPM IOs.  Not sure exactly how much recharge you can get away with before you start losing proc chance but I would guess a decent amount since it has a 20s cooldown and 2.5s cast time.  If mid's estimate is right then the proc chances are pretty good even when TF has capped out recharge slotting.

I think 55%. I typically slot a 5 piece hecatomb and add a 3.5 ppm proc for 88% chance to fire. 

[EidoIruson]

Finally got my DM/SD from live finished and just did a single run

 

343.25 dps - Assault Hybrid slotted, but not active

 

I was Tektronics on the old forums, this is from almost 10 years ago lol

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906194613/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3554843&postcount=1434

[BrandX]

Elec/Bio/Mu Stalker

 

Tier 4 Musculature Radial

Tier 4 Preemptive Interface Radial

Tier 3 Assault Hybrid (not activated)

 

3:41 for 301.33 DPS

 

Not sure what that additional +2.5 DMG will do with Tier 4 Hybrid, but I will be working on the -HP/Toxic Interface later.