issue 26 Patch Notes for January 23rd, 2020 - Issue 26, Page 4

[SwitchFade]

Text is so hard to interpret, isn't it? I hope we can all breathe deep and let go of any misinterpreted text. I feel, personally, that the Dev team is doing an amazing job and I'm sure no one thinks any less. I'm glad we're all very supportive.

 

I may not always be the best at data collection, but in an effort to focus on a fast patch, perhaps we can limit our postings to data verification and test feedback? I'll endeavor to stick to this myself as well!

Edited January 25, 2020 by SwitchFade

[Wavicle]

I don't know how it feels on all the other sets, but on my Claws/Regen Brute and my Elec/Elec Tanker I am loving these changes.

[Queen Nefertiti]

32 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

Are we really questioning the competence of the guy(s) who know this game from it's deepest levels (at the code base), rather than questioning our own diligence at testing all possible permutations prior to implementation?  I do hope I am misinterpreting these comments.

 

These folks are doing their best to interpret 15 year old code, that was not done in the most organized way from the start.  Just ways that made what the original developers wished to do, happen in the most expedient way possible.  Much has been stacked on top of that over the years, and now, in an effort to give us more of what we want, and make things better, the new developers are attempting to interpret all of that, and make changes to bring that about.  They put that product out for testing months in advance to verify what they think they've accomplished before introducing it to the production environment.  They allow for the possibility that there could be inadvertent issues created by any change, since pulling any thread in this delicate, and intricate tapestry could have unintended consequences.  They do this by putting those changes in a test environment, and imploring us to beat it up to expose the exact kinds of things we are seeing.  That we apparently didn't test as effectively, or vigorously as the subtleties of the issue required, is regrettable.  But, not the fault of the folks attempting to make the game better for us (for free I might add).  It is incumbent on us, as players to help them sort these kinds of things out.  We are their best source of this kind of information.  They cannot do it alone.  The same was true when the game was live, and there were times when the exact same things happened, despite the fact that there were many more players who participated in testing.  

So, before casting aspersions on these great folks that provide all of this for us, perhaps take a little more introspective look at ourselves, and admit that our dependence on others to test, rather than more of us helping out is more the cause for this, than any lack of skill on the part of the Devs.  More thorough testing might, or might not have actually caught these latest bugs.  But, it stood a greater chance than relying on the Devs to do it for us, blaming them when it had unintended side-effects, and insisting that the changes be rolled back, or fixed ASAP.  I propose that we all have more of an investment in this endeavor, and act in the role of partners in the process of development, rather than just its beneficiaries.  Things can only benefit from a situation such as that, and participation, rather than complaint is a lot more satisfying.

A very eloquent and well reasoned comment. You hit the nail on the head and I totally agree with everything you say. On live thousands of people tried changes out on test, and found most if not all the bugs early on. Here there are maybe a 100? Maybe less? going on test and trying to kill the code. It's not really a surprise that bugs slip through when the code is such a tangled mess you drop a to hit bonus 1% and suddenly all Skulls hit like AV's  as something went "parp" in the code with that one minor change. Unfortunately people being people they want more and they want it now. Myself I'd have been happy to have the game back frozen in amber, exactly as it was the day they turned the servers off.  Just to be able to play my all time favourite game again. The fact a dedicated group of unpaid fans spend the best part of their free time tweaking the code, making new content, fixing bugs, and countless other stuff is the cherry on the cake. Complaining that someone needs to do something and getting angry when they don't is rude and disrespectful to a group of people who don't need to do it at all. It's like me giving you money for the bus to get home when you are stranded, then complaining I didn't get you a cab and buy you pizza as well. I didn't need to even give you the bus fare, just be grateful I didn't walk off.

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

Are we really questioning the competence of the guy(s) who know this game from it's deepest levels (at the code base), rather than questioning our own diligence at testing all possible permutations prior to implementation?  I do hope I am misinterpreting these comments.

 

These folks are doing their best to interpret 15 year old code, that was not done in the most organized way from the start.  Just ways that made what the original developers wished to do, happen in the most expedient way possible.  Much has been stacked on top of that over the years, and now, in an effort to give us more of what we want, and make things better, the new developers are attempting to interpret all of that, and make changes to accommodate.  They allow for the possibility that there could be inadvertent issues created by any change, since pulling any thread in this delicate, and intricate tapestry could have unintended consequences.  They do this by putting those changes in a test environment, and imploring us to beat it up to expose the exact kinds of things we are seeing.  That we apparently didn't test as effectively, or vigorously as the subtleties of the issue required, is regrettable.  But, not the fault of the folks attempting to make the game better for us (for free I might add).  It is incumbent on us, as players to help them sort these kinds of things out.  We are their best source of this kind of information.  They cannot do it alone.  The same was true when the game was live, and there were times when the exact same things happened, despite the fact that there were many more players who participated in testing.  

So, before casting aspersions on these great folks that provide all of this for us, perhaps take a little more introspective look at ourselves, and admit that our dependence on others to test, rather than more of us helping out is more the cause for this, than any lack of skill on the part of the Devs.  More thorough testing might, or might not have actually caught these latest bugs.  But, it stood a greater chance than relying on the Devs to do it for us, blaming them when it had unintended side-effects, and insisting that the changes be rolled back, or fixed ASAP.  I propose that we all have more of an investment in this endeavor, and act in the role of partners in the process of development, rather than just its beneficiaries.  Things can only benefit from a situation such as that, and participation, rather than complaint is a lot more satisfying.

I completely agree.

[Myrmidon]

58 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

I don't know how it feels on all the other sets, but on my Claws/Regen Brute and my Elec/Elec Tanker I am loving these changes.

I am loving the changes on my Rad/Rad as well.

[csr]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

Are we really questioning the competence of the guy(s) who know this game from it's deepest levels (at the code base), rather than questioning our own diligence at testing all possible permutations prior to implementation?  I do hope I am misinterpreting these comments.

 

A LOT of changes were made to the powers database in this patch.  I can think of four things that went wrong right off the top of my head.  (The Brute taunt toggle is likely a database error.  The Jump Kick KU percentage certainly is.  The missing PPM entry causing 100% chance for KB also is.  The new Phantom Army effect where two pets fail to respawn on zoning could be code or data.)  I personally don't expect Captain Powerhouse to be perfect.  Unfortunately, I don't think he could get a good beta test of the last changes because the holidays slowed things down so much that we just got to a "push it live ASAP" point.  So some things slipped through.  With the current development environment with a shortage of beta testers due to the relatively low overall population of HC that's just going to happen with large sets of changes like this.   🤷‍♂️  On the plus side, this dev team is far quicker to fix things than a commercial studio would be.  But for them to fix them, someone has to tell them that it's broken.

Edited January 25, 2020 by csr

[Abraxus]

1 minute ago, csr said:

 

A LOT of changes were made to the powers database in this patch.  I can think of four things that went wrong right off the top of my head.  (The Brute taunt toggle is likely a database error.  The Jump Kick KU percentage certainly is.  The missing PPM entry causing 100% chance for KB also is.  The new Phantom Army effect where two pets to fail to respawn on zoning could be code or data.)  I personally don't expect Captain Powerhouse to be perfect.  Unfortunately, I don't think he could get a good beta test of the last changes because the holidays slowed things down so much that we just got to a "push it live ASAP" point.  So some things slipped through.  With the current development environment with a shortage of beta testers due to the relatively low overall population of HC that's just going to happen with large sets of changes like this.   🤷‍♂️  On the plus side, this dev team is far quicker to fix things than a commercial studio would be.  But for them to fix them, someone has to tell them that it's broken.

Once the changes went live, it didn't take long for reports of issues to appear.  This tells me that more thorough testing could potentially have revealed the issue, but it would have taken folks to be testing diligently, and specifically for the changes.  I don't know if that was happening for sure, or not.  My original point was that the Devs are doing their level best to make things better, and following the best course possible to ensure that the likelihood of introducing an unintended issue to the production environment is minimal.  They don't cut corners, and they don't rush things.  In fact, I heard a lot of clamoring about the length of time some of these changes were in the test environment, urging them to hurry up and release them. 

Bottom line is, nobody ever promised, or even really implied that a bug, or combination of bugs making it through testing undetected was beyond the realm of possibility.  Especially, as you rightly point out, with the lower overall population, with an even lower percentage willing to participate in testing.   But, the Devs did their due diligence with this process.  I only suggest that if we were as earnest in our efforts to validate them before they have an effect on our Fire Farms, or specific cherished ATs, the bugs could have been detected in test, as quickly as they were once they were released to the live servers.   I would also agree that their response to the issues has been much quicker, and enthusiastic than we ever used to get during the live days, and I have no doubts about their dedication to correcting these issues as quickly as circumstances allow.

I'm not saying that anyone in particular is fomenting ill will, or assuming anything other than good intentions on the part of the Devs.  But, there have been comments that hinted at it, and I could not in good conscience let that go unnoticed, or unaddressed. 

[Bukatti]

On 1/23/2020 at 10:49 PM, The Curator said:

Mez Duration and Suppression rules have been enforced for the following powers

hmm my english is not well, so all these Mez Duration and Suppression rules means BUFF or NERF? ex: more mez duration or less?

Edited January 25, 2020 by Bukatti

[KauaiJim]

I don't normally post much in forums but I really want to say a HUGE thank you to the Homecoming team for not only bringing back one of the best MMO's ever made but also for all their awesome work improving it for us.  I was a senior software engineer at a major worldwide company for 22 years and making changes to complex code written by others can get tricky to say the least.  I for one very much appreciate what you guys are doing, even if it means my fire farmer has to take a little vacation (or endure what looks like a drunken soccer match until this gets fixed, lol).  

 

Also, I am enjoying the fury changes.  They are a significant improvement on several of my brutes.

 

I'm looking forward to trying out the tanker changes soon too.  I have a lowbie I made and parked but now I'm going to pull him off the shelf and dust him off.

 

Keep up the good work guys!  Captain Powerhouse, you're doing great!

 

Thanks again!

 

- Jim

 

[csr]

3 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

He didn't imply the code was messed up, he stated the developer was wrong.  These are not the same thing.  Not even close.

You appear to be referring to me.  In which case your assertion is flat out wrong.

 

"I don't think", "I suspect", "maybe" are not assertions of fact.  All of my sentences not describing my personal experience included such terms.  But for the record, Captain Powerhouse has been wrong in the past, and will be wrong in the future.  If he is, then I won't hesitate to point that out.  Telling someone they are wrong is not an insult.  Suggesting they may be wrong certainly isn't either.  In this case, I think he may be wrong.  Or it may be that the Brute taunt toggle bug does account for all of it.  It just doesn't seem to fit perfectly with what I'm seeing, since I'm having trouble holding things in close with a Tanker, not a Brute.  If the Brute toggle is all there is to it, then I'm wrong.  It won't be the first time, nor will it be the last.

Edited January 25, 2020 by csr

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Abraxus said:

Bottom line is, nobody ever promised, or even really implied that a bug, or combination of bugs making it through testing undetected was beyond the realm of possibility.  Especially, as you rightly point out, with the lower overall population, with an even lower percentage willing to participate in testing.   But, the Devs did their due diligence with this process.  I only suggest that if we were as earnest in our efforts to validate them before they have an effect on our Fire Farms, or specific cherished ATs, the bugs could have been detected in test, as quickly as they were once they were released to the live servers.   I would also agree that their response to the issues has been much quicker, and enthusiastic than we ever used to get during the live days, and I have no doubts about their dedication to correcting these issues as quickly as circumstances allow.

I'll ask this here - and it's about as stupid a question as I can think of. I work remotely, I do have time, I think to do some testing.  

How would one go about intelligently testing and providing meaningful feedback? Is it just a matter of playing the game as I normally would, but on the test server? Or is there more to it than that? 
 

[Abraxus]

Just now, Ukase said:

I'll ask this here - and it's about as stupid a question as I can think of. I work remotely, I do have time, I think to do some testing.  

How would one go about intelligently testing and providing meaningful feedback? Is it just a matter of playing the game as I normally would, but on the test server? Or is there more to it than that? 
 

I can't speak for the Devs, but I would think reading through the patch notes to see what specifically is being changed, and to concentrate testing efforts on a power, AT, or mission that would seem most directly involved.  That's how I approach it anyway.

[EmperorSteele]

Yeah, I tested out the Illusion change and did everything I could think of to break it (changing costumes while summoning, changing to a costume which didn't have custom pets applied while summoning, changing into a different gender while summoning, trying to use a prestige power to turn into something else while PA was spawning - which didn't work because I was locked out of using another power while PA was activating, etc). Ultimately, I found some niche uses for the changes, but nothing broken. The only thing I didn't try was zoning with them active >_>

[Abraxus]

Yeah, it's hard to think of every possible permutation.  But, the idea is that no one person will know it all, or be able to test it all.  But, the combined efforts of multiple folks doing testing on the same feature will typically happen upon a problem, if there is one to be found.

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Is it?  Let's review your own words:

"I am very concerned by that highlighted post from Jimmy. I honestly feel like he has gotten the bug completely wrong about what is going on and has no clue. It is leaving me with less than positive belief that it will actually be fixed." 

(Emphasis mine.)

That's pretty much a direct accusation against the developer.
 

I never claimed they were assertions of facts.  The passage quoted above are your words and assertions of your beliefs - and as such you are responsible and accountable for their content.

That wasn't actually @csr, I think he may be intercepting some comments intended for someone else. Either way, it's getting a tad too heated so please try to remain civil!

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Abraxus said:

I can't speak for the Devs, but I would think reading through the patch notes to see what specifically is being changed, and to concentrate testing efforts on a power, AT, or mission that would seem most directly involved.  That's how I approach it anyway.

Generally, yes, this is exactly what we need 🙂

 

However, this patch was a significantly more far-reaching than the norm - the underlying technical refinements involved touched every single power in the game. Honestly I'm quite pleased with how few problems there were once it finally reached live. That's what 5~ months of testing gets us though!

 

Internally we've collectively breathed a huge sigh of relief that we're finally over this hurdle. Just one more big bump to get over (Safe Mode) before we can start working on some more exciting stuff!

[SwitchFade]

Ok, a bit of testing feedback

 

50+1 inv/ss tank

 

Cardiac t4, assualt t4, reactive t4

Fully io'd with purples and ATO's

+4/8 battle maiden map

 

Taunt does not drive warriors to close to melee. Consistently, when taunted they stand at range firing. Multiple applications did not change this, they stayed at range. This was with 13-16 does aggroed.

 

Damage feels good, noticable increase.

Foot stomp hits plenty of targets, very happy.

 

Crosspunch arc is good! Hits satisfyingly, plenty of targets, good damage.

 

Air sup+cross punch(sup avalanche in it)=guaranteed knockback, io set is bugged confirmed

 

Overall, my tank feels great. Not overpowered, not underpowered a good increase in damage and enjoyably playable. Does not tread on a brute, as a brute kills faster. After fixing bugs this feels spot on for a v1.0 baseline.

 

Next up I'll exempt down to low levels to test. Then make a new tank to test.

Edited January 26, 2020 by SwitchFade

[Abraxus]

Jimmy just announced that a bunch of bug fixes for the I26, Page 4 patch are out on Pineapple.  This is the chance for us to hit it hard, and see what works, and what still doesn't!  Test, or forever hold your peace! 😉

 

[Mina Valerious]

Regardless of what bug's arise from tweaks that the devs do to Homecoming, be grateful you have a place to play COH. 

 

Just as is with any paid subscription game, bugs make it past developers all the time. Some you know about and some you don't and only find out about it after that situation has happened. 

[Wild Claw]

Just as a note, the P2W Enhancement - Might of the Empire also appears to always triggering Knockdown on every hit in Production. It's not that big of a deal, because at that level it's more just amusing than problematic, but I thought I'd mention it.

[Hardship]

2 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

Yeah, I tested out the Illusion change and did everything I could think of to break it (changing costumes while summoning, changing to a costume which didn't have custom pets applied while summoning, changing into a different gender while summoning, trying to use a prestige power to turn into something else while PA was spawning - which didn't work because I was locked out of using another power while PA was activating, etc). Ultimately, I found some niche uses for the changes, but nothing broken. The only thing I didn't try was zoning with them active >_>

I also did a little testing of the PA changes, and I probably never would have ever noticed this bug. I nearly always release my pets when I complete a mission before exiting and I typically don't zone with them out. I'm glad that someone noticed.

[MrAxe]

Goodbye AoE Insight Strike. You will be missed. 😧

[mikeywyatt91]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:49 PM, The Curator said:

Bug Fixes

• Fixed the team window showing "On mission map" when a teammate is in their Supergroup Base and vice versa.

Biblical, honestly.

[SwitchFade]

Further testing results

 

50 sentinel, water/SR

T3 alpha

 

Pool powers: tough, weave and assault

No provokes or taunts

 

50 +4/8 PI story arc missions, various, warriors, shadows, etc

 

Whirlpool causes foes to scatter and run just outside of dot much more than before. Before, a few foes would scatter. Now, they all flee.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by SwitchFade

[DoctorDitko]

Anyone else seeing Mapserver attacks much more frequently?

I'm having trouble finishing missions.

 

Also, I can confirm the PA zoning bug. 1 survivor each time.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by DoctorDitko