Task Force etiquette

[Snarky]

I run a lot if Task Forces. Mostly pre-35 stuff because i alt a lot. I ran 7-8 Synapses during the week it was offered a bonus. I try to run Posi through Manticore on my alts pretty much in order to see if i like the concept and AT as much in order as possible

 

Generally this is pretty smooth for me. I run in Everlasting and it is a spectacular server to alt on. Friendly folks. More than once a PUG team i joined has offered to level someone by running papers if they were just short of making the level cut

 

95% time it goes real smooth. Okay nothing is perfect though. Sometimes we load into a TF and are fighting enemies that are obviously +level. I go back check my conversation tabs. Did i miss info stating this was running at a higher difficulty?  Nope. Sigh. 
 

i was just informed in another topic thread that if i want “speed” runs it is up to me to advertise for those. If i accept a place on a TF i am bound to whatever the team leader decides, And it is my fault for not communicating i want a speed run. 
 

i do not consider +0 speed runs. Especially  on Synapse. 
 

I firmly believe if someone is setting up a team to run a TF at anything besides +0 they should mention that.  
 

what are the opinions of the wise people of Locker C18?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Snarky

[siolfir]

I saw the post in the other thread, and thought about replying there but it was a bit of a derail so I didn't.

 

I'm of the opinion that it's up to the leader to define the expectations, but if you have a preference you should bring it up before the TF starts so that the leader can respond, because if you quit after the TF starts they have to completely restart to fill the vacated spot.

 

I agree that even con isn't a speed run - there's a whole range including "kill all", "clear to objectives", "stealth what you can", and "speed run", and the difficulty options barely effect most of them. I personally prefer having the difficulty elevated to +1 to +3 depending on builds, and hate doing TFs as "kill all" since I usually find it a waste of time and if it's just for xp I can get that faster elsewhere. I'm fine with +4 but also consider it mostly a waste of time and only like doing it when it's really +3 due to incarnate level shift.

 

If I'm running a TF, I usually ask people on the team if there are objections to how I plan on it, and adjust accordingly. If I know I don't want to do a kill all, I bring it up - and if I'm running a speedrun, I tell people that's what we're doing in advance and occasionally remind people that it's a speedrun when they get caught trying to clear all of the mobs along the way.

Edited January 23, 2020 by siolfir

[Sovera]

I always set mine to +1. The difference between 0 and 1 is minimal in difficulty so why not extra XP? I never go higher when leveling though. No slots, no powers, this is not the time to be whittling mobs when we are on our Nth alt of the week. Once at 50 and slotted then yeah, I don't mind exemping down an running things at a higher difficulty since my slots ensure I will be fine.

[Lines]

I'm always disappointed if I find a TF is +0. Even more true if it is a longer one. The time is quite a big commitment, and it feels like a waste if there's no substance to play. +2 is a better sweet spot for game and time for me.

 

I've been on LRSF speedruns - actual speedruns - that weren't advertised as such. I think that was a bit rude. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Lines

[DougGraves]

I consider there to be 3 plans for TFs: normal, kill all, and speed run.  Speed run is skip as much as possible.  Race past the enemy to get to the mission goal.  If you want to do that you should advertise it, as it is very different than playing through.

 

I don't consider +0 a speed run.  The difficulty setting really depends on your level and if people are playing on easy mode with IO sets and incarnate powers.  If you are playing the base game I assume +0 up to 20, +1 in the 20's, +2 in the 30's, and +3 in the 30's to be "normal" difficulty at this point.  Even without IO sets and incarnate powers, +0 is easy in the 30's.

[siolfir]

8 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

I consider there to be 3 plans for TFs: normal, kill all, and speed run.  Speed run is skip as much as possible.  Race past the enemy to get to the mission goal.

See, that's why I included "stealth what you can" - I consider a speed run the next step up, where if there are objectives that can be done simultaneously you not only don't expect the team to stay together, but you expect them to split up to handle them at the same time. I consider it an important delineation in the expectation for the team.

 

I also usually speed run LRSFs because the fun part of it is the required fights, there's little reason to keep the team together in the first mission or while unlocking the door to Libbie, most of the maps are large outdoor maps where you only want to clear a few spawns, and Longbow and Malta are annoying. But since that was how they were always run when I started running them back on Infinity, I usually consider that to be expected behavior and deviations as something to advertise. I will ask if anyone has never run one, though, and will try to explain what's going on beforehand - and if I notice that people are having trouble when scattered I'll switch to "stealth" instead "speed" on the fly.

[Bossk_Hogg]

I like advertising as "smashy" or "speedy". Smashy not being a kill all, but with the expectation you fight towards the objectives and a level of +2 or higher depending on the team. Make it so you actually get some use out of your powers. Speedy not being a true speed run, but with less fighting and stealthing to objectives when it makes sense. Usually at +0.

 

Helps to set people's expectations when joining and doesnt end up on either extreme of the spectrum. . 

[Haijinx]

Something to keep on mind is some TFs scale some enemies based on the max level of the TF, and since you get level locked - this can be an issue if for example you ate running Posi at level 8 and Doc Buzzsaw is level 15. 

 

Paragon wiki calls them signature TFs or something, but mainly its sll the core Freedom phalanx stuff (posi/synapse/etc)  

 

 

[macskull]

On Excelsior at least I'll usually see people forming TFs in LFG or global channels say the level difference they're running it at or if they're doing a speedrun. If I'm interested and it's not specified I'll ask before committing, but normally I just run my own and make sure to advertise them as speed runs.

[Haijinx]

One bit of ettiquitte, try to know roughly how long a TF takes  (or ask)  and don't join if you don't have enough time.

 

Have ended up in a lot of TFs lately where we start with 8 and end with 5-6

[Sovera]

12 hours ago, Lines said:

I'm always disappointed if I find a TF is +0. Even more true if it is a longer one. The time is quite a big commitment, and it feels like a waste if there's no substance to play. +2 is a better sweet spot for game and time for me.

 

I've been on LRSF speedruns - actual speedruns - that weren't advertised as such. I think that was a bit rude. 

I've been tricked into joining speed ITFs twice and they are the same person since they use the same macro to advertise. But now I know better. I just don't consider 'XP ITF +4 Kill most of all' to be a speed run, but then I join and it's 'don't trigger the ambush at the hill. Don't fight the (fat stack of XP) kheldian ambushes at the top of the hill. Don't wait for the cyst ambushes and move on. Go straight to Romulus and Requiem, and then work back killing the generals.'

 

The only lip service paid to the 'kill all' is at the last mission where the group waits just after the bridge while everything from nearby is pulled, but even then for a 'kill most of all' and 'XP ITF' I ended fighting a lot less than a regular ITF.

[Gulbasaur]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

I firmly believe if someone is setting up a team to run a TF at anything besides +0 they should mention that.  

I'd say this is true up to the late game stuff. I do make it clear when we're starting, though (normally +2 for the first mission, then +3 or +4 depending on how we do).

 

I also use the words "not a speed run" quite regularly because the point of the game is to enjoy the game, in my opinion, and that scrapper who decides to fly straight up to the Oracle (and then not lead her to the altar because he hasn't bothered to check chat to see who she's following) in IFT can suck a whole fart. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Gulbasaur

[DSorrow]

In my opinion a default TF is basically +0 to +2 (depending on the team comp) and defeating enemies on the way to objectives. If you're about to stealth a lot, want to defeat all, crank the difficulty higher or otherwise do something "unusual", then it's usually worth mentioning to manage people's expectations. 

[SeraphimKensai]

For me typically unless from the onset trying a specific challenge like +4 all dominator tf, etc. my time is precious. I don't have all day to sick around playing so I'm not going to typically want to run a +4 kill all, TF when it rewards the same amount of merits as doing a speed run.

80% of the time I'm doing a TF I'm already lvl 50 and running a full load of Set IO's so I don't need the xp.

 

Time is precious.

So if someone pulls the wool over my eyes trying to force me into PLing their toon via a task force I'm not happy, and not shy about quitting a TF and just soloing it faster than that team was progressing.

 

TF recruiters should advertise what level the TF is going to be, know the content, and ensure their recruits are able to reasonably meet the demands of the TF.

[Grouchybeast]

5 minutes ago, DSorrow said:

In my opinion a default TF is basically +0 to +2 (depending on the team comp) and defeating enemies on the way to objectives. If you're about to stealth a lot, want to defeat all, crank the difficulty higher or otherwise do something "unusual", then it's usually worth mentioning to manage people's expectations. 

I'd agree with this as a good rule.  Unless the TF is low enough level TF that characters are substantially lacking in accuracy, the purple patch scaling modifiers at +1 or +2 aren't going to make an enormous difference to a full team.  Even at low levels they can, as you say, be mitigated by the right support.

 

For anything more ambitious, the first mission is usually enough to show if the team is going to struggle.  At that point a lot of people are very amenable to restarting with a lower difficulty.

[Snarky]

I joined a Posi 1 yesterday led by a returning player. Yeah!  Yes i kicked them some inf. Welcome Home

 

they were level 10. I politely reminded everyone about the need for a level 15 leader or the Doc Buzz hatefest issue occurs. He threw the star to a 22.  Who had their level at +1.  The first mission was tough. They were like should we keep it for the rest of TF.?  I am on a future fire farmer Brute and have just burned through every medium insp i had stocked to stay upright  We set to +0 and continued.  It went okay until the last mission. 2 peeps jumped up by city hall doors.  Two team wipes. One person quit. Then we finished. Time 59 minutes.  This is more or less an average Posi. There are a few 40 min runs but not enough to say that is regular. The three TF i do most are posi 1 2 and Synapse.  I generally am throwing i/o on my Brutes from the go and know content.  But the teams generally struggle with anything more than +0

[Queen Nefertiti]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I joined a Posi 1 yesterday led by a returning player. Yeah!  Yes i kicked them some inf. Welcome Home

 

they were level 10. I politely reminded everyone about the need for a level 15 leader or the Doc Buzz hatefest issue occurs. He threw the star to a 22.  Who had their level at +1.  The first mission was tough. They were like should we keep it for the rest of TF.?  I am on a future fire farmer Brute and have just burned through every medium insp i had stocked to stay upright  We set to +0 and continued.  It went okay until the last mission. 2 peeps jumped up by city hall doors.  Two team wipes. One person quit. Then we finished. Time 59 minutes.  This is more or less an average Posi. There are a few 40 min runs but not enough to say that is regular. The three TF i do most are posi 1 2 and Synapse.  I generally am throwing i/o on my Brutes from the go and know content.  But the teams generally struggle with anything more than +0

I did a posi 1 the other night and it ran really smoothly. I hadn't got a clue what was going on as I'd never done it before, so just followed along killing anything that came up. It was a bit frantic at times, but it was great fun.

[Shred Monkey]

It's literally the choice of the person forming the group.  If they're unclear when advertising, it's a potential problem.  But, IMHO, if you join a TF where it isn't clear up front, you're implicitly saying that you'll commit to staying regardless of what type of run it is, within reason. (Personally, I usually am).

 

That said,  I honestly don't think I've ever seen a team run MsLTF as a kill-through to each objective on ANY of the missions.  They always just spread out to kill cables on the 1st mission, then gather for the AV,  They just kill 4 av teams in 2nd and oro out except for team leader who completes the mission.  They stealth to the tree on the 3rd and ignore everything but vines and the Tree.  They kill security chiefs then skip to the AVs on the 4th (sometimes clearing the ambush because it's killing them and they can't avoid it), and then they skip past the dock mobs on the 5th to go straight to the AVs.  That is exactly what you do on a speed run, except you try to do it as fast as possible.  But that's the only way I've seen it done, and I'm sure I've run it over 100 times.  IMHO, if you want to run this TF differently, to not advertise it as a "kill through" up front is going to cause tension because speed is the normal method.

 

I think that it's pretty common to run the TF commander TFs at +0.  A lot of people are only after the completion badge and they want to knock it out as quick as possible.  So you shouldn't be surprised if that's what people do.  The only way to ensure that's not what you get is to run your own TFs.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Shred Monkey

[Ironblade]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

i was just informed in another topic thread that if i want “speed” runs it is up to me to advertise for those. If i accept a place on a TF i am bound to whatever the team leader decides, And it is my fault for not communicating i want a speed run. 

 

i do not consider +0 speed runs. Especially  on Synapse.

Well, that sounds like someone with control issues or a strong preconception that their way is the only way.

 

Running the low level TFs at +0 is *NOT* a speed run.

Stealthing where you can in a tedious, low level slogfest like Synapse or Citadel is *NOT* a speed run.

And, to directly address that persons comment, accepting a place on a TF doesn't bind me to jack.  If they broadcast for a TF and make no mention of any special conditions, then we start and it's at +4, I am bound to NOTHING.  I retain free will.  If it's a TF below level 30 or so, I'll ask if it's intentional.  If so, I'll see how it goes for a mission or two.  If the team genuinely can't handle it - I'm gone.  I am under no obligation to suffer because someone has delusions of might.

 

 

P.S.  On a side note, my default assumption when someone is recruiting for one of the Weekly Strike Targets is that we will be trying to get it done quickly.  Maybe not a 'speed run', per se, but sure as hell not killing everything on the map in every Synapse mission.

 

P.P.S.  I fully recognize that I can get away with some 'assumptions' because I usually lead the TF's I'm on.  I generally run them the way that I think is 'normal' for that TF.  If I plan anything other than a 'normal' run, I announce it as such.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Ironblade

[Ironblade]

24 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

But, IMHO, if you join a TF where it isn't clear up front, you're implicitly saying that you'll commit to staying regardless of what type of run it is, within reason.

This - "within reason".
Positron at +4 is not within reason.  (Or +3, or +2 or even +1 for Posi.)

For an ITF, "within reason" can range from skipping the cyst ambushes to killing every living thing on the final map.  I'm up for either.

[DR_Mechano]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

I run a lot if Task Forces. Mostly pre-35 stuff because i alt a lot. I ran 7-8 Synapses during the week it was offered a bonus. I try to run Posi through Manticore on my alts pretty much in order to see if i like the concept and AT as much in order as possible

 

Generally this is pretty smooth for me. I run in Everlasting and it is a spectacular server to alt on. Friendly folks. More than once a PUG team i joined has offered to level someone by running papers if they were just short of making the level cut

 

95% time it goes real smooth. Okay nothing is perfect though. Sometimes we load into a TF and are fighting enemies that are obviously +level. I go back check my conversation tabs. Did i miss info stating this was running at a higher difficulty?  Nope. Sigh. 
 

i was just informed in another topic thread that if i want “speed” runs it is up to me to advertise for those. If i accept a place on a TF i am bound to whatever the team leader decides, And it is my fault for not communicating i want a speed run. 
 

i do not consider +0 speed runs. Especially  on Synapse. 
 

I firmly believe if someone is setting up a team to run a TF at anything besides +0 they should mention that.  
 

what are the opinions of the wise people of Locker C18?

Basically, yes you need to communicate that you want the TF run on ONLY +0. A lot of people don't just run TFs for the merits/badges, they'll also run them for XP. If a team is stomping through missions at high speed, the leader will usually ask if they can crank up the difficulty, now the group as a whole will decided if they want more XP or faster clear times. In the case you're on a team and the majority ask for a bump in difficulty, then, well democracy is at hand and you're going to have to go with the flow on that. If you suddenly quit 2 missions in because it goes against your singular idea, which you're free to do so, it still kind of makes you look like a Jackass...

[vibal]

34 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Basically, yes you need to communicate that you want the TF run on ONLY +0. A lot of people don't just run TFs for the merits/badges, they'll also run them for XP. If a team is stomping through missions at high speed, the leader will usually ask if they can crank up the difficulty, now the group as a whole will decided if they want more XP or faster clear times. In the case you're on a team and the majority ask for a bump in difficulty, then, well democracy is at hand and you're going to have to go with the flow on that. If you suddenly quit 2 missions in because it goes against your singular idea, which you're free to do so, it still kind of makes you look like a Jackass...

I agree that's how it plays out in game, but that's pretty faulty when you look at it critically. Dropping a TF is a cardinal sin because the team is locked and can't refill. Changing the parameters after the team is locked is a pretty low-ball move. For whatever reason we let the latter slide and /gignore the former. If you advertise "(X)TF LF(Y)" and I join, I've agreed to do the TF. Nobody agreed to do it at +X nor did you advertise it. Just because the team is locked doesn't mean I did. If I bow out because I'm not interested in taking twice as long for the same reward - that seems like a fair trade off.

[Lines]

I was on an LGTF a couple of months ago where the leader set it to +0 with no indication beforehand that would be the case. We were steamrolling the first mission, so someone asked if we could increase the difficulty. The team was in agreement, but the leader refused to. Not even with a reason, that's just the way it was going to be. It got prickly.

 

Two people left the TF. I stayed in because I never leave TFs, but I really do regret that I didn't. It was boring, the encounter between players hung in the air and nobody was talking to each other.

 

That was a totally unique encounter, though, but it stuck with me for how uncomfortable the whole rest of the taskforce was. I think we can all agree that proper etiquette would have been to at least acknowledge what the team was saying, be open to discussing it and be fair with the expectations of the people you're playing with.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Lines

[vibal]

That is odd. Didn't mean to make it sound like the parameters are chiseled in stone either. I'm usually 100% game to tinker with it. Was more pointing out that if 8 members agree to run a TF on default that doesn't mean those same 8 agree to run it modified.

 

If the tank had just said they need to grab the badge and scoot the team likely would've just dogpiled it and moved on.

[Fortuneteller]

I don't really care enough to worry about difficulty of a TF or SF. If it feels easy i sometimes ask to bump it up one.

If folks want to speed run it they can feel free to speed ahead, i'll catch up in my own time. I personally don't feel the need to race around in this game and am too old nowadays to do so.

21 hours ago, Snarky said:

 

i was just informed in another topic thread that if i want “speed” runs it is up to me to advertise for those.

I guess it would be polite to ask for such, i don't think speed runs should be the default.