Yellow Salvage, what's up with that?

[Yomo Kimyata]

Starting new post after the one on General got derailed.  Your thoughts?

[Saikochoro]

I fully admit that I’m impatient, but I have generally been paying 50-100k in the last few days to get the “buy it now” price. 
 

Even just 2-3 weeks ago it 5k. 
 

I have 15k bids that go unfilled for well over an hour. Which sucks when I see that last 5 going for 12k. Yet I bid 15k or even 25k and it doesn’t get filled. So I just resort to 50-100k. 

[Obus Form]

Yellow salvage got refilled back to the 100000... Amount as of yesterday.

 

Did I miss something or did the government refill their stock?

[Sakai]

Out of curiosity what is the seeded price of uncommon?

[Rainbow Angel]

From the previous thread in General:

  

On 3/3/2020 at 4:24 PM, GM Korvin said:

Salvage is seeded like so:

• 10,000 for Common salvage
• 100,000 for Uncommon salvage
• 1,000,000 for Rare salvage
• 50,000 for Brainstorm Idea

Hence the large amount of salvage on sale in the first place.

 

[Bopper]

Hmmm...I sat on yellow salvage forever since it wasn't worth selling. Might be time to cash in

[Noyjitat]

Been deleting salvage for awhile now except orange and I imagine others are so the throw away salvage supply is nearly gone.

Would be nice if they someday turned off the market seed as that should have only been temporary to begin with.

[Yomo Kimyata]

The thing I've noticed is that the bidding handles are different, which implies to me that it's a number of people rather than one.

 

Example:  my "fist" is 5.  I tend to buy things at levels like 15,005, or 4,005,000.

 

There are definitely block bids, but some of them have different fists.

[Mr. Vee]

25 minutes ago, Noyjitat said:

Been deleting salvage for awhile now except orange and I imagine others are so the throw away salvage supply is nearly gone.

Would be nice if they someday turned off the market seed as that should have only been temporary to begin with.

why would that be nice? the market obviously can't be trusted to be reasonable on salvage without that cap. 

[Saikochoro]

1 hour ago, Noyjitat said:

Been deleting salvage for awhile now except orange and I imagine others are so the throw away salvage supply is nearly gone.

Would be nice if they someday turned off the market seed as that should have only been temporary to begin with.

I don’t understand how turning off the market seed is a good thing for anyone. It sets a maximum price for salvage so things don’t get out of hand. 
 

I think it was a brilliant solution along with what they did with bundling recipes (for use with the conversion routine) to avoid outrageous market prices that seem to plague every game economy.

[Saikochoro]

It’s only been about a week of me actively doing this, and I know it doesn’t make a dent, but I have been selling all my white and yellow salvage on the auction house for 1inf. 
 

I used to just vendor it, but I want to put as much low cost supply in as I can. 

[cra119]

A couple weeks ago there may have been 500-600 bids on yellow salvage, since the price has gone sky high, there are now over 40,000 bids.  It's definite market manipulation, but I'm starting to think the goal isn't to make money off yellow salvage, but rather stop people doing enhancement conversion.  Since yellow salvage has gone up in price, there are less enhancements in the AH overall.  It's definitely a weird time for the AH.

[Ura Hero]

It wouldn't be the first time someone decided that everyone wasn't playing the game correctly and attempted to "fix" it by screwing with the game.   I've been dumping my unused salvage at 1 inf, but it won't make a dent in the problem.

 

As far as a "Fist", I don't have one that I use regularly buying.  I bump to whatever I think I can buy for.   Now selling I have one, but that one keep to myself.  

 

I still think the drop rates are wonky for AE, but I have no proof since I haven't kept records.  I just know how many runs that it took to fill my salvage bins up on my farmers and It's taking 1.5 to 2x as many now.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, cra119 said:

A couple weeks ago there may have been 500-600 bids on yellow salvage, since the price has gone sky high, there are now over 40,000 bids.  It's definite market manipulation, but I'm starting to think the goal isn't to make money off yellow salvage, but rather stop people doing enhancement conversion.  Since yellow salvage has gone up in price, there are less enhancements in the AH overall.  It's definitely a weird time for the AH.

The yellow salvage increase adds, at most, the price of one extra converter to the craft-roll total.  It seems weird that that would have a massive impact on people's willingness to roll.

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

The yellow salvage increase adds, at most, the price of one extra converter to the craft-roll total.  It seems weird that that would have a massive impact on people's willingness to roll.

I agree 100% and am so incredibly puzzled.  I don't understand why people are losing their shit over this.  It's like Apple refusing to make and sell any new $800 iPhones because one tiny component's cost went from 1/100 of a cent to 1/10 of a cent.  People REALLY hate change, is my takeaway so far.

[Saikochoro]

6 hours ago, cra119 said:

A couple weeks ago there may have been 500-600 bids on yellow salvage, since the price has gone sky high, there are now over 40,000 bids.  It's definite market manipulation, but I'm starting to think the goal isn't to make money off yellow salvage, but rather stop people doing enhancement conversion.  Since yellow salvage has gone up in price, there are less enhancements in the AH overall.  It's definitely a weird time for the AH.

Why would someone want to stop enhancement conversion? I honestly can’t see any downside to the process. 
 

People can make money off it - check.

 

Market is flooded with popular enhancements keeping prices down - check. 

People can convert unwanted enhancements into ones they want to keep - check.
 

People can convert to create an otherwise zero supply IO - check. 

People have a steady merit to inf conversion through selling converters - check.

 

Merit usefulness is super high in large part due to demand for enhancement converters. So more task forces are ran - check. 

There is honestly only good things coming from enhancement conversion.  I don’t doubt someone might try to stop it, but why?

Edited March 12, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Grouchybeast]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I agree 100% and am so incredibly puzzled.  I don't understand why people are losing their shit over this.  It's like Apple refusing to make and sell any new $800 iPhones because one tiny component's cost went from 1/100 of a cent to 1/10 of a cent.  People REALLY hate change, is my takeaway so far.

I'm definitely willing to consider some kind of drop bug at this point, unless there's a new AE farming trick that's making people turn off normal drops and go back to tickets. (Although on live that had a very distinctive pattern of crashing orange salvage prices and driving up yellow.)  There's a definite and easily demonstrable current bug with mission complete xp, so at least one wacky thing is going on with rewards.

[Lines]

17 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I agree 100% and am so incredibly puzzled.  I don't understand why people are losing their shit over this.  It's like Apple refusing to make and sell any new $800 iPhones because one tiny component's cost went from 1/100 of a cent to 1/10 of a cent.  People REALLY hate change, is my takeaway so far.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone losing their minds. A lot more bafflement at the phenomenon, whichever way you look at it. It's hard to get a finger on how much this manipulation (if that is what's happening) is benefitting anyone. Scummy behavior is aggrevating in principle, even if the impact is negligible.

 

Though I've got the other foot in the camp of thinking the supply has dropped. Hard to tell with the seeded salvage added to the total.

[_NOPE_]

Quote

Yellow Salvage, what's up with that?

[Coyotedancer]

20 hours ago, Ura Hero said:

I still think the drop rates are wonky for AE, but I have no proof since I haven't kept records.  I just know how many runs that it took to fill my salvage bins up on my farmers and It's taking 1.5 to 2x as many now.

 

Okay... Not just me, then.

 

Doing Bloody Rainbow with Harry, my farm-toon, I used to have to stop between every second hall on average when I was running solo to dump salvage on the AH. (I drop anything there that's in a stack of 10-) He'd end up full-up pretty quickly. It's definitely less frequent these days. I actually *almost* made it a full round of five without seeing the "Salvage Full" pop up last night. Harry hit the full-up mark a little over halfway through the last round.  His capacity for holding salvage bits hasn't increased dramatically, so it does look like there there may be something up with the drops. 

 

I'll keep an eye on it from here on. 'Wished I'd been keeping numbers all along, but... hindsight and all that. XP

Edited March 12, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Mr. Vee]

did another round of buy everything below the seeded threshold and relist for 11 today. a few days ago there were a little over 300, today 1100. so...progress.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, The Philotic Knight said:

I was going more for:  

 

 

[Noyjitat]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:48 PM, Saikochoro said:

I don’t understand how turning off the market seed is a good thing for anyone. It sets a maximum price for salvage so things don’t get out of hand. 
 

I think it was a brilliant solution along with what they did with bundling recipes (for use with the conversion routine) to avoid outrageous market prices that seem to plague every game economy.

Im one of those crazy capitalists that likes a free market.

[Saikochoro]

1 hour ago, Noyjitat said:

Im one of those crazy capitalists that likes a free market.

I don’t think capitalists are crazy. I am also a capitalist. I’m all about the free market in the real world. 
 

However, in a game I am all about relaxation. I would guess many are like minded. Therefore, I am happy that a lot of the stress in the in game economy has been taken away.  A relaxed market is possible in a game because there can be such thing as limitless supply. The same can’t be said of the real world. 

[tidge]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:00 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Starting new post after the one on General got derailed.  Your thoughts?

 

If I were trying to understand ebil, while wearing a tin-foil hat:

 

Spoiler

 

My thought would be that the price jump on yellow salvage is due to a very small number of users who are motivated to pump the brakes on the rapid accumulation of INF by other folks buying yellow recipes and crafting them to be converted into rare IOs. The Uncommon salvage would be the easiest point to try to choke the supply (for arbitrary values of "rapid"):

• I believe that recipes are pooled within a set, but not across different sets. It wouldn't be impossible to tie up all the uncommon recipes, but it would involve an extra layer of work/clicking to go through all the categories. There would be extra pain 'waiting' for the orders to fill.
• I believe that salvage is pooled within a rarity. This makes it much easier to simply place bids on only one type of uncommon salvage as buy orders will 'always' fill as long as the salvage is being dropped into the pool.
• All uncommon and rare recipes require at least one uncommon salvage (as do many enhancement buffs)

I do recall that there were a few periods over the summer of 2019 where yellow recipes shot up by a factor of 10x to 50x. At the time I associated those swings to 'classic Ebil' marketing by folks wanting to make their Nth billion inf, but I suppose it could have been an early effort to try to slow the Market, until someone with too much inf (and time) decided to try to put the choke on the salvage instead of the recipes:

 

The 'going price' for most of the first year of homecoming compared to the 'seeded' price was roughly

• common 1:20 - 1:100 - 1:1000 (500 inf v. 10 inf v. 1 inf)
• uncommon 1:100 (1K inf)
• rare 1:2 (500K inf)

The common drops are so plentiful that the observed wide swings in common prices speak to there being too much fluidity (for too little return, if 'return' is even a factor) to make it worthwhile to try to pinch off the supply of commons.

 

The rare drops are so close to the seeded price that for folks (at most) 3 rares to craft a lvl 50 recipe the extra 1.5M inf wouldn't be that much of an extra cost for crafters, but would be significantly more INF used to try to move the market a relatively small amount (before the seeded cap is hit).

 

 

If I remove the tin-foil hat (never ascribe to ebil, that which is adequately explained by farming):

 

Spoiler

The supply of cheap uncommon salvage could have dried up simply because AE farmers may have switched their INF-making tactics to use the AH instead.

 

IIRC the common: uncommon : rare ratio was 22 : 5 : 1, which may imply that yellows have been bargain priced for a long time!

 

My personal thought is that it would take a lot of effort (in buying them) or apathy (from not bothering to list them) to dry up the supply of commons, and rares are already in the ballpark of the seed price... so if the largest source of salvage (AE farmers) switched tactics I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see yellow salvage in the 50K - 100K range.