Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Luminara]

Summation -

 

HC: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  Or the one."

Many: "Cool.  Let's see how this goes."

Few: "That's not how it works, and John Nash was an idiot!"

One: "AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH *headsplode*"

[SwitchFade]

31 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Yeah, the devs can do whatever they want, but I just want them to get this through their heads: this change expands economic inequality instead of reducing it.

 

The idea that this change reduces economic inequality was based on the lie that farmers were the upper class in this game. In reality, they were the middle class, and market manipulators were the ultra-rich upper class. This is a middle class nerf not an upper class nerf. 

 

So please don't repeat the economic equity rationale anymore because it's a lie and I don't want to see that lie propagated again. Thanks 🙂

 

That all being said, I don't believe equity is necessarily an essential goal or anything like that; I just believe in not lying to people.

That's not how economics works. Marketeering, or whatever you want to call it, does not create more info, it redistributes it.

 

The change will actually normalize distribution over time, increase the buying power or the lay-eperson and drive down prices. It's already happening.

 

Again, that is not how income inequality, inflation, monetary distribution, value and the determinates of supply and demand work.

[MunkiLord]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

That's not how economics works. Marketeering, or whatever you want to call it, does not create more info, it redistributes it.

 

The change will actually normalize distribution over time, increase the buying power or the lay-eperson and drive down prices. It's already happening.

 

Again, that is not how income inequality, inflation, monetary distribution, value and the determinates of supply and demand work.

This.

 

Additionally, the developers have access to a lot of data that we don't, and they've demonstrated multiple times over the last year that they do look at the actual data and don't just make these changes for the sake of changes. Now, that doesn't mean they'll always get it right, especially since one of the variables is human behavior. If this change proves to not have the desired impact, I don't think they'll just stick with it as-is for the sake of their egos. Now that doesn't necessarily mean the change would be rolled back, but their past behavior indicates they would address it in some manner.

 

I also think a lot of the blowback from this is many players are very understandably looking at the immediate and short term effects of this, while the developers are taking a more long term view. Often times those two views don't really mesh well, so there is likely to be some initial pain points as people adjust to the new situation. I think over time that this will work out better for the overwhelming majority. 

[ZacKing]

Am I the only one who doesn't care if someone has more ingame money than me?  If someone is playing a lot more than me, then let them have more stuff.  I could care less.  Sure, fix exploits and such but don't take away an incentive to exemplar down for stuff.  Merits aren't enough in my opinion.  making extra inf was a nice perk.

[arcane]

Congrats, no one that responded to my post actually comprehended the thing I was critiquing and made straw man arguments that I don't disagree with in the first place. I know the difference between creating and amassing lol. Jesus. Have a good day everyone.

[SwitchFade]

2 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Congrats, no one that responded to my post actually comprehended the thing I was critiquing and made straw man arguments that I don't disagree with in the first place. I know the difference between creating and amassing lol. Jesus. Have a good day everyone.

I did tell you how it does reduce income DISPARITY. Again, how you think economics works, is not how it works. I'm very sorry.

[Jimmy]

Please stop quoting posts in this quote chain that started with a very rude post, they are all getting hidden 😛 

[Myrmidon]

55 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Am I the only one who doesn't care if someone has more ingame money than me?  If someone is playing a lot more than me, then let them have more stuff.  I could care less.  Sure, fix exploits and such but don't take away an incentive to exemplar down for stuff.  Merits aren't enough in my opinion.  making extra inf was a nice perk.

A little bit of everything works just as well as using a single method and it lets you play as you like. Billions laying around is a waste when it can both be used on characters and given away to people that can use it.

 

 

Being able to play this game again is it’s own reward.

[jubakumbi]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Am I the only one who doesn't care if someone has more ingame money than me?  If someone is playing a lot more than me, then let them have more stuff.  I could care less.  Sure, fix exploits and such but don't take away an incentive to exemplar down for stuff.  Merits aren't enough in my opinion.  making extra inf was a nice perk.

You are not the only one.

Rogue servers will continue to have this kind of drama, because they are run by gamers, not game professionals.

My advice is to explore your gaming options and not allow Stockholm sydrome or peer pressure to dictate your COH play-space.

[Abraxus]

I don't play here because of Stockholm Syndrome, or any other syndrome, other than loving this game.  I play here because I believe in what this team does, and how they do it.  I believe in their long term goals, and I like being where the population allows me to play any way I choose (team, or solo.  TF, or mission work).  As for the other servers, I wish them luck and success in everything they do.  But, there is nothing about them that appeals to me enough to give me a moments pause about where I play.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Abraxus

[Luminara]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Please stop quoting posts in this quote chain that started with a very rude post, they are all getting hidden 😛 

 

Quoth the Jimmy, nevermore.

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I don't play here because of Stockholm Syndrome, or any other syndrome, other than loving this game.  I play here because I believe in what this team does, and how they do it.  I believe in their long term goals, and I like being where the population allows me to play any way I choose (team, or solo.  TF, or mission work).  As for the others, I wish them luck and success in everything they do.  But, there is nothing about them that appeals to me enough to give me a moments pause about where I play.

This is the only Syndrome that causes me to play:

 

[Lines]

I'm also not here because of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I'm here because the HC team kidnapped me about a year ago and have been forcing me to play ever since.

 

tbh, I kinda got used to it.

[SwitchFade]

10 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This is the only Syndrome that causes me to play:

 

Congratulations! You just won the thread!

[ShardWarrior]

47 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

A little bit of everything works just as well as using a single method and it lets you play as you like. Billions laying around is a waste when it can both be used on characters and given away to people that can use it.

 

 

Being able to play this game again is it’s own reward.

I do not know what server you are on, but from my experience there are groups of people holding costume contests, base building contests, all kinds of things to give away influence to others.  Inf is not finite in the game. 

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

I did tell you how it does reduce income DISPARITY. Again, how you think economics works, is not how it works. I'm very sorry.

I think a fun experiment would be getting every player that has more than 20 billion to try and spend it all within six weeks. I bet that could have a fun impact on prices. 

[skoryy]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

I think a fun experiment would be getting every player that has more than 20 billion to try and spend it all within six weeks. I bet that could have a fun impact on prices. 

 

 

[Heraclea]

On 3/31/2020 at 10:18 AM, Dimensio said:

I prefer "So, it has come to this."

 

I, too, turned off XP while exemplared for my 50s to increase my Influence gain.  It was nice, but I understand the rationale behind the change.

I also turned off XP while exemplared for many of my level 50s that had achieved a basic level of incarnates (t3 all around, some t4s).  They still often run exemped content.  Has this been reverted to default for all characters, or does XP need to be retoggled for each?

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Heraclea said:

I also turned off XP while exemplared for many of my level 50s that had achieved a basic level of incarnates (t3 all around, some t4s).  They still often run exemped content.  Has this been reverted to default for all characters, or does XP need to be retoggled for each?

I can't say for sure, but I'm going to assume it needs to be turned back on for each character. I know there are at least a few people that turn it off for RP reasons, so I imagine swapping it for them would just cause problems. Plus globally changing settings for everyone can have all kinds of unintended consequences.

[Chirikiti]

On 3/31/2020 at 5:38 PM, Infinitum said:

If You think farming yields more than trading you are not up to speed on any of this.  Trading can get you 250 million every 30 min if you are good at it.

 

Farming is less boring and more of a community activity, so yeah lets discourage that. *rolls eyes*

There's a difference between earning and generating

Trading can make you more money...money which already exists. Farming generates it for it to spent on said trading.

 

Two different things

 

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

I think a fun experiment would be getting every player that has more than 20 billion to try and spend it all within six weeks. I bet that could have a fun impact on prices. 

hah I was thinking along the same lines

[Omega-202]

11 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

What will happen is a reduction in those large prize costume contests and giveaways. Less largess given to the lowbies. I view that as a net loss for the game. On my first day on Infinity server someone saw me in Atlas and gave me 50k. It was amazing and let me go into the game and find out just how fun it could be.

"You shouldn't raise taxes on the rich, otherwise they'll give away less to charity." - you

 

Instead of fixing a systemic issue, lets just hope for some good old trickle-down.

[Neiska]

I might be in my own boat here, but I've found my own play/budget for gearing my characters largely... unaffected. I still run farms, and make enough for my time investment to still fully gear out my characters. For me getting those purple sets is the easy part, it was grinding out those T4 incarnates that is the real grind. Even now money feels like a small speedbump, nothing more. Its those Emp merits and whatnot that are the real timeskins.

 

I was never one to play the market, or focus on how much money I could get. And I am fine with those that like to focus on money. I'm a "do my own thing" sort. If people wanted to redline their capability for making money or whatever, I can understand the drive. I mean heck, I have around 12 fully slotted and geared characters and I didn't even know turning off exp for more money was a thing, as I was more focused on earning threads and so on. So I guess for me, money wasnt the big hurdle to get over, and it never really was. I find enough recipies and salvage to sell, plus what money i find normally to get what I wanted. I never felt helpless to improve my situation. I need 100 million? I'll go run a certain map a couple of times then. I usually find a purple worth a bit, though I've often found up to 3 on one map before. 

 

I do worry about how this might impact rp events such as games, contests, and offered player given prizes. I know many people who funded such giveaways through farming, so I do hope this doesnt impact that fun too much. But I really dont care if some people have accounts with 2 billion money. Thats their business, and it doesnt really affect me. I have always been able to improve myself with enough time and patience, and thats enough for me.

 

Honestly, finding that special title, or getting fully equipped with all T4 incarnates, or getting all the Acolade poewrs is the true endgame grind to my mind. Money is just a timesink. But for some people Money making is the real fun too, and thats perfectly fine as well.

 

Just my two cents. 

[Oubliette_Red]

On 3/31/2020 at 9:37 AM, Jimmy said:

Simply using a level 49 map itself was not an exploit, but was an abuse of the system, which is why it was eventually going to be removed.

 

The exploit was the use of Patrol XP with this option turned on - your influence income increased dramatically without consuming the Patrol XP - and I have no doubt that many players were making use of this without being aware at all. Just fixing that alone would've resulted in a big income drop for farmers, but as this feature was simply not healthy for the game we opted to remove it.

 

Again, you need to consider this change in the context of it impacting everyone. Your income may have dropped, but so has the overall input of influence into the economy. Those who were not making use of this exploit (unwittingly or not) will not actually experience any change in their buying power long-term.

Emphasis mine.

[Yomo Kimyata]

53 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I think a fun experiment would be getting every player that has more than 20 billion to try and spend it all within six weeks. I bet that could have a fun impact on prices. 

That would only redistribute it, with a portion of it getting burned through market fees.

 

No, what we need is the true nuclear option.  Bring back Prestige, but keep it unnecessary for bases.  Use it purely as a counter for how much inf you've burned in the fire pit.

[MunkiLord]

Just now, Yomo Kimyata said:

That would only redistribute it, with a portion of it getting burned through market fees.

 

No, what we need is the true nuclear option.  Bring back Prestige, but keep it unnecessary for bases.  Use it purely as a counter for how much inf you've burned in the fire pit.

My suggestion isn't any kind of solution. My thinking is if all the influence sitting and not being used was suddenly being circulated that prices would go up significantly, even if only for a few months. It would take a concentrated effort for people to actually spend all they can over an extended period of time. So not something that is realistic to attempt.