Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Outrider_01]

2 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

15mins includes fabrication, click-to-add, and selling.

You might be correct.  I didn't bother looking with the mindset of making profit on the AH, just get what I need and leave.  The dragging/dropping/clicking ect and a high resolution monitor might of been the problem, grabbing an item from the slot tray multiple times because its off by a pixel is annoying.  The delayed AH information for bids, requiring a 1 bid to show the price no matter how many times you hit find or wait a bit.  Its the tedious things I can't stand, all the little annoyances add up.

 

Crafting or Marketing, Been there, done that in any MMO.  Tired of it.  I don't farm for proft, just to fit my characters.  Never was fast, just a couple long missions and off for the day.

[Gremlin]

I think some people who enjoy Task Forces and iTrials trade while they're waiting for the team to start.

[Huron]

I have a hard time with the entire "This is an exploit, therefore we must nuke it from orbit" explanation, when this

has sat on the forums since August 7th.  In particular the section marked "What's the deal with level 49 farming anyway?"

Edited April 3, 2020 by Huron

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

You wouldn't have had time, nobody would have had time. This was literally right when the servers were online. Even if you got one from your first convert click you would not have had time to list it that quickly.

 

Not saying you didn't list some but im saying these were l listed already.

I'm not sure what to tell you, other than I was one of the first people if not the first to list the new End Mod IOs.  One or two of them already had one offered by the time I got there, but they were certainly not seeded by the developers.  I'm guessing that you logged into the servers later than you think you did.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Huron said:

I have a hard time with the entire "This is an exploit, therefore we must nuke it from orbit" explanation, when this

has sat on the forums since August 7th.  In particular the section marked "What's the deal with level 49 farming anyway?"

It doesn't mean it wasn't an exploit, it just means that the devs had other priorities and dealt with it when they got to it.  There's no time limit on exploits after which by law they must automatically get grandfathered into the system.

[Caulderone]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'm not sure what to tell you, other than I was one of the first people if not the first to list the new End Mod IOs.  One or two of them already had one offered by the time I got there, but they were certainly not seeded by the developers.  I'm guessing that you logged into the servers later than you think you did.

I know I logged in within moments of the servers coming back on.  There were 0 for sale and 0 bidding on the PT:Heal IO or recipe.

I was the first one to bid on 4 of each, which I needed to update my tank build.

[tidge]

11 hours ago, darkbunnie said:

they we need to do about something but  black market  cause all of IQ set some of them high casue ppl in game make them high in market

 

It could well be gone to the americans.

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, Haijinx said:

You don't need anywhere near 1 billion to afford the good stuff for one character. 

I completely agree with you. Never said you did. But - we have 1000 slots. And, if you want your character to be as good as you play, you want the better IOs. Depending on your AT, that typically means: 
1 Gladiator's Armor 3% def (all) & Teleportation protection  - about 11M currently, but I've seen them sell as high as 15m. Smarter players will buy a lower cost PvP IO recipe, craft and convert. Even if it takes 30 converters, a 5M recipe, plus crafting costs of less than 1m, you come out much cheaper. 
1 Panacea +hit points/recovery  - another 12 m
1 Shield Wall 5% res (all) - another 12M

Numina +recovery/hit points - 4M, Miracle +end -4 M, Perf shifter +end (currently going for 6M because of the new end mod IOs) 

1 set of Winter-Os for the melee attacks, that's 100m, more if you go for the winter packs to gain them that way. 
1 set of Overwhelming Force - which you can do 5-6 Summer BB's, but after you've done that a hundred times for your first 20 alts..I'd rather buy 'em straight out. At 15M each - 10M if I'm fortunate, patient and bidding intelligently - that's 50-60M. 

Purples are called for with most dominator builds aiming for perma dom. Those are 100M per set, easily. You can certainly bring the cost down to 90M by getting recipes and crafting, converting as necessary. Or you could be a sucker and use merits, but nobody sane does that. Better off using merits to get converters - which is another thread all by itself. 

Melee characters tend to have armor - either resist or defense focused - and those cost about 4-5M for each IO. Usually 3-4 armor powers, so that's about 60-80 Million there. It adds up, as we all know. 

 

Depending on your AT and powersets, a solid build is going to cost at least 200M. More than likely double that. A very resourceful player could probably get my with prodigious use of converters & reward merits at half that cost, it just depends on how much time they want to spend playing for converters instead of playing for fun. (the same thing for the lucky few of us)

No; there's no rule that says we need the best our inf can buy. But there's also not a rule that says you should get the cheapest Training Origin enhancements either. Some believe that common IOs or even SOs are good enough. They can be, if you team frequently to cover up the holes in your build. 

I think half the player base solos for their own reasons half the time. So, yeah, they need the better builds. At a minimum, they want them. 

The folks with time on their hands - like me - can read the market forum, soak up the tips & tricks and do those things themselves - like I have. Now I have four level 4 characters who are waiting in Ouroboros for the Chronologist badge and I'll start playing one of them in a day or so, staggering the play time, giving me 10 days to get to 50 and t-4 it. Plenty of time for me. Not nearly enough time for most because they don't play as much as I do. 

 

Ultimately it doesn't matter to me. I've got over 80 Billion. I'm just trying to be helpful. 

 

 

[tidge]

20 hours ago, QuiJon said:

I mean do they think I just run into a farm and kill 3 mobs and hit a blinky and repeat it over and over again? Effort equals rewards. And sure I can not say kill alling a tf is just as good as farming but stealthing a task force for sure is the lowest possible reward you can hope for. Effort should equal reward. Even if it is just a time basis. Perhaps rather then nerfing the rewards for some activities we need to look at boosting it for others. If I can make 100m an hour running a farm at x difficulty they perhaps the in game reward system should be set to equate to the same level of reward for every hour of ACTUAL game play/action. 

 

What I am saying is that if we are going to start looking at reward per hour or whatever, why are we only looking at money and farmers. Why is there no adjustment for marketeering? After all I don't even need a farm toon or to run a misson. I can make a billion a week now just playing the market if I really want to and not kill a single thing. Why is that not a problem for this evil accumulation of influence that farmers are being punished for?

I snipped a lot from this post, and decided to quote those two paragraphs because they remind me that there is a very wide spectrum of attitude towards the game, the rewards, the style of play and the 'market'. I appreciate the folks describing their play style and attitudes; I'm less impressed by the posts taking (and giving) offense and those predicting total meltdown for the game and its 'economy'.

 

I suppose Page 5 is making both profits and prophets!

[EmmySky]

I have heard it said that in HC, inf falls from the sky.  No longer a hard spring flash flood, now we have a gentle summer thunderstorm.  Its still raining, people, look up!

[Yomo Kimyata]

24 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

I have heard it said that in HC, inf falls from the sky.  No longer a hard spring flash flood, now we have a gentle summer thunderstorm.  Its still raining, people, look up!

Until the ebil marketeers steal all the umbrellas.

[Coyotedancer]

22 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Until the ebil marketeers steal all the umbrellas.

Nah. Just buy them all up for 6 bobkins, paint the handles blue instead of red and then sell them back to everyone for 16 bobkins plus tax.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Lockpick]

9 hours ago, Huron said:

I have a hard time with the entire "This is an exploit, therefore we must nuke it from orbit" explanation, when this

has sat on the forums since August 7th.  In particular the section marked "What's the deal with level 49 farming anyway?"

 

So, you are quoting an explanation of an exploit to say it is not an exploit?  That seems strange...

 

In the post, "Then you change your XP While Exemplared setting to "Double Influence, No XP". This will actually double your influence and makes farming at level 49 more profitable than farming at 50."

 

I remember reading this thread before I started my farmer (Spines/Fire) and thinking that if it is more profitable at 49 than 50 that would definitely be an exploit.  I never used and got my farmer to 50 and haven't really touched him since.  Farming just wasn't my thing.

 

However, let's look at the chart in the quote:

 

	Inf Per Minute	Inf Per Hour	Clear Time
Rad/Fire (New)	2,300,107	138,006,431	23:20
Spines/Fire	2,295,431	137,725,907	21:59
Rad/Fire (Old)	2,288,810	137,328,603	Unavailable
Savage/Fire	2,250,996	135,059,786	22:28
Claws/Fire (Farm)	2,170,498	130,229,936	23:14
Claws/Fire (Content)	2,105,686	126,341,219	24:38
Elec/Fire	2,010,323	120,619,380	25:02

 

$2M influence per minute?  How is that in any way rational?  I would really be curious to see what it is now after the change because I would bet it is still extremely high.

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

It isn't an exploit if it's working as intended... which the simple extra-INF-instead-of-XP setting, even when used in a level 49 mission. was. It was the added effect of that setting combined with never-consumed Patrol XP that was exploitative, not simply the trade-off setting.

 

Jimmy & Company may not *LIKE* the way that setting worked at level 49, but it wasn't broken. It was working the same way it has since the original devs added it way, way back when as an incentive to get people to exemp.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

Nah. Just buy them all up for 6 bobkins, paint the handles blue instead of red and then sell them back to everyone for 16 bobkins plus tax.

 

 

The rain it raineth on the just,

And also on the unjust fella.

But mainly on the just, because

The unjust stole the just's umbrella.

 

I disagree with you that it was working as intended.  From that post:

 

Interesting discovery from a Discord conversation with @vppl . The influence is not actually doubled when using the 'Double Influence, No XP' option.

At level 50 with XP turned off you get Inf+(XP converted to inf)=Total Inf

When exemplared using that option you get Inf+(XPx2 converted to inf)=Total Inf

 

 

I'd bet Canadian dollars to doughnuts that the XPx2 part was the clincher for the devs.  I've got no problem with trading xp for inf or vice versa.  The multiplier was the exploit, and I cannot imagine a scenario where level 49 characters were intended to earn 30-50% more influence than level 50 characters if you click this option and disable this other one and press up down up down A B A B return.

 

It's kind of a moot point, but it's still fun to argue about it!

[Coyotedancer]

Just now, Yomo Kimyata said:

The rain it raineth on the just,

And also on the unjust fella.

But mainly on the just, because

The unjust stole the just's umbrella.

 

I disagree with you that it was working as intended.  From that post:

 

Interesting discovery from a Discord conversation with @vppl . The influence is not actually doubled when using the 'Double Influence, No XP' option.

At level 50 with XP turned off you get Inf+(XP converted to inf)=Total Inf

When exemplared using that option you get Inf+(XPx2 converted to inf)=Total Inf

 

 

I'd bet Canadian dollars to doughnuts that the XPx2 part was the clincher for the devs.  I've got no problem with trading xp for inf or vice versa.  The multiplier was the exploit, and I cannot imagine a scenario where level 49 characters were intended to earn 30-50% more influence than level 50 characters if you click this option and disable this other one and press up down up down A B A B return.

 

It's kind of a moot point, but it's still fun to argue about it!

I'd love to be able to ask Castle or one of the old devs, honestly. That's the only way we'd ever know for 100% certain... But given how long it was around and how it was never so much as tweaked (or even mentioned, as far as I can recall-) I have doubts they saw it as an issue.

[mrultimate]

Let's just let it go,.....let it go........

 

Homecoming is Jimmy and his crew's world and they are going to do whatever they want.

 

Here is a little isolation humor for everyone

 

Copied....
I just saw a news report about the stresses and strains of self-isolation. It reported that people are going crazy from being in lockdown! It was strange, actually, because I had just been talking about this with the microwave and toaster and all of us agreed that things are getting worse. I didn't mention anything to the washing machine as she always has to put a different spin on everything, and certainly not to the fridge as he is acting cold and distant. In the end, the iron calmed me down. She said everything will be fine, which surprised me because she’s usually the first one to apply unnecessary pressure and get steamed up over nothing !!! I think she might have been sneaking off to the medicine cabinet.

[Oubliette_Red]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

It isn't an exploit if it's working as intended... which the simple extra-INF-instead-of-XP setting, even when used in a level 49 mission. was. It was the added effect of that setting combined with never-consumed Patrol XP that was exploitative, not simply the trade-off setting.

 

Jimmy & Company may not *LIKE* the way that setting worked at level 49, but it wasn't broken. It was working the same way it has since the original devs added it way, way back when as an incentive to get people to exemp.

 

Nope...

On 3/31/2020 at 12:12 PM, Number Six said:

On 3/31/2020 at 12:11 PM, Foxfyre said:

Did this exist on live?  If it did, I wouldn't say it's an exploit.....especially as most people were using it unknowingly.  At most, it's just the reversal of a bug.

It did not, because on live you stopped earning XP at 50.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Oubliette_Red

[Digirium]

2 hours ago, Lockpick said:

2M influence per minute?  How is that in any way rational?  I would really be curious to see what it is now after the change because I would bet it is still extremely high.

 

1M influence/minute since the double influence fuelled in error by patrol XP is now disabled. Note however, that rate is only possible on the extreme builds that have macros converting and consuming damage inspirations - YMMV for characters less setup/perfected to farm. My feeling about the change is still depression and I know many others are feeling it too - there is a disconnect opened between the aspiration to build characters and the ability to do what is required. A post above outlined how much it costs to outfit a character.

[Lockpick]

2 minutes ago, Digirium said:

 

1M influence/minute since the double influence fuelled in error by patrol XP is now disabled. Note however, that rate is only possible on the extreme builds that have macros converting and consuming damage inspirations - YMMV for characters less setup/perfected to farm. My feeling about the change is still depression and I know many others are feeling it too - there is a disconnect opened between the aspiration to build characters and the ability to do what is required. A post above outlined how much it costs to outfit a character.

 

Can you earn $1M influence per minute in standard content?

Does the $1M influence per minute include drops that can be sold?

 

Not trying to be snarky, I really don't know the answers.  My assumption is that you cannot earn $1M influence per minute in standard content except maybe for some exceptions.  Even at $1M per minute you are earning $60M per hour and $300M over 5 hours.  If you assume a quality build can be done for $300M it seems extremely fast to kit out a character.  If you double that at 10 hours and $600M that still seems extremely fast. 

 

I am comparing the kitting out a character here to SWTOR, so maybe I am using the wrong measuring stick. 

 

I generally use merits / AH to kit out my characters and I have never estimated how many hours it will take me, but I know if I want a PVP IO I will need to run some TFs to get enough merits to use to either sale the converters or play conversion roulette to get enough influence to buy what I need.  It may take me multiple sessions and multiple TFs to get that PVP IO (which could be a couple of hours depending on the team) where it looks like you could have it in 12 minutes (if it is a $12M IO).

 

If you add drops and sale them it would seem the time to kit a character would go down even more.

 

[Digirium]

4 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

Can you earn $1M influence per minute in standard content?

Does the $1M influence per minute include drops that can be sold?

 

Not trying to be snarky, I really don't know the answers.  My assumption is that you cannot earn $1M influence per minute in standard content except maybe for some exceptions.  Even at $1M per minute you are earning $60M per hour and $300M over 5 hours.  If you assume a quality build can be done for $300M it seems extremely fast to kit out a character.  If you double that at 10 hours and $600M that still seems extremely fast. 

 

I am comparing the kitting out a character here to SWTOR, so maybe I am using the wrong measuring stick. 

 

I generally use merits / AH to kit out my characters and I have never estimated how many hours it will take me, but I know if I want a PVP IO I will need to run some TFs to get enough merits to use to either sale the converters or play conversion roulette to get enough influence to buy what I need.  It may take me multiple sessions and multiple TFs to get that PVP IO (which could be a couple of hours depending on the team) where it looks like you could have it in 12 minutes (if it is a $12M IO).

 

If you add drops and sale them it would seem the time to kit a character would go down even more.

 

 

No difference between "standard content" and AE on inf/min plus drops are identical. This is a solo farm character running +4(x8) the influence equals the bounties from the defeated NPCs, the drops add extra influence (enhancements, recipes and salvage) There is no predictability on what drops equates to in terms of influence, it's random - it could be less than the bounties it could be more. The last build was reaching toward 1 billion influence, in total -- it started before the patch and finished up after when it was more of a struggle to complete the remainder of the IOs required for the build. Instead of 20 hours farming, may be it is now 40 hours instead -- burnout is the more likely to happen consequence now.

 

Without farming how long would it take to casually build up a character? A hundred hours, two? It would not surprise me.

 

Before AE in live, farmers would pick a mission map and farm but never complete it, reset and go again. It's even easier now with flashback.

 

 

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, Digirium said:

Without farming how long would it take to casually build up a character? A hundred hours, two? It would not surprise me.

My main has 417 hours on him, and with no farming or overt marketeering paid for the IOs for two other characters and himself. He has enough resources on him to IO another one or two, and many of those hours came after I stopped using that character's resources to IO characters, AND I bought a lot of IOs directly with merits.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Vanden

[Coyotedancer]

2 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

Nope...

 

 IIRC that's in refence to the actual exploit… the interaction of still getting Patrol XP after 50, which didn't exist prior to shut-down, and the Extra-INF mechanic. 

 

The Extra-INF mechanic absolutely DID exist in the live days, and did apply to level 50 characters running level 49 missions. I know that for a fact. I routinely used it on all of my characters after they hit 50. There was no reason not to, and I did a lot with them exemped.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[FireAzz]

Fix the bug and allow lvl 50 characters to once again gain dbl inf. The NERF that was done was totally uncalled for....

[Saiyajinzoningen]

wait no more double inf when exemplared when did this happen?