Making Task Forces Challenging Again!

[Plasmar]

I've been thinking of a way to put a challenge back in the game and I'm interested in what others think.  Lost is the art of teamwork and coordination.  Things like Tanks & Brutes who know how to properly manage aggro or Blasters targeting the same NPC, etc.

 

I propose the following to Task / Strike Forces and Incarnate Trials:

 

Levels 1- 30:  +0 Difficulty

Levels 30 - 40:  +1 Difficulty

Levels 40 - 50:  +2 Difficulty

Incarnates Trials:  +3 Difficulty

 

This would be the minimum difficulty allowed.

 

Haven't yet figured out a way to make Hami more of a challenge beside upping the Hit Points / Damage dealt.  Not sure I like that idea or not.

 

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Edited May 23, 2020 by THavoc

[Apparition]

Team leaders can already set difficulty at those levels, and beyond.  I run TFs and trials below level 30 at +1x8 (even Positron and Synapse), below level 50 at +2x8, and usually run level 50 TFs and trials at +3x8.  Even at those difficulty levels, you still don't need much teamwork nor coordination.

[Plasmar]

12 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Team leaders can already set difficulty at those levels, and beyond.  I run TFs and trials below level 30 at +1x8 (even Positron and Synapse), below level 50 at +2x8, and usually run level 50 TFs and trials at +3x8.  Even at those difficulty levels, you still don't need much teamwork nor coordination.

Oh, I realize you can set a difficulty level.

 

However, this would be more of a starting point without getting into major coding changes for resists or hit points, etc.

[Apparition]

I don't think it'll work.  First off, you're attempting to take away choices from people that like to run level 50 TFs at +0, (like many speed runners that I know).  Secondly, even at +3 or +4, you still don't need much teamwork nor coordination like I said.

[MTeague]

You want to make a TF *very* difficult?  Use the "No Enhancements" challenge option.  (already exists in game)

Edited May 23, 2020 by MTeague

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, MTeague said:

You want to make a TF *very* difficult?  Use the "No Enhancements" challenge option.  (already exists in game)

 

Yep.  I've done a Lord Recluse Strike Force with no enhancements, no inspirations, players debuffed, and enemies buffed.  This was on a Sonic Resonance Corruptor mind you.  My endurance was pretty much non-existent. :D

[Greycat]

Let's not *force* specific difficulty levels just because something's at X level range. If you want to run it at that level, you set it at that level. You want more challenge, pick some of the other options available to you now.

 

No taking away options. It's not a good idea.

[FrauleinMental]

1 hour ago, Plasmar said:

I've been thinking of a way to put a challenge back in the game and I'm interested in what others think.  Lost is the art of teamwork and coordination.  Things like Tanks & Brutes who know how to properly manage aggro or Blasters targeting the same NPC, etc.

You may or may not have meant it, but this does smack of elitism, especially with the "minimum difficulty allowed" bit.  (If not, I apologize for the mini-rant.)  But first you say you want challenge and then you cite things that might already add challenge.

 

Hami is already challenging.  Many of us are spoiled because there are already really good Hami raid leaders and teams.  But it doesn't take much to have a Hami raid go sideways.

 

You want more challenging TFs?  Lead one, and turn up the difficulty.  You can even put the same challenges as in Ouro arcs--click all 4 radio buttons and choose AT powers only from the drop-down menu--these will definitely put the challenge on you.  For Incarnate Trials, don't slot your Level Shift powers--everything in them is already 54--or don't slot Incarnate powers at all if you're really L33T.  But make sure you let people know up front.

 

You want the game to be more challenging in general?  Play a more challenging character.  Not everyone is soloing +4/x8 on Fire/Kins and Brutes, so don't force choices for the rest of us.

[Cobalt Azurean]

Maybe, oh I don't know, play the game you want to play with settings that already allow for what you want to do, and let everyone else play how they want.

 

Sound good? Okay, thanks.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Cobalt Azurean

[Cherry]

14 minutes ago, Cobalt Azurean said:

Maybe, oh I don't know, play the game you want to play with settings that already allow for what you want to do, and let everyone else play how they want.

 

Sound good? Okay, thanks.

aint no one got time for reason and logic. QFT ❤️ xoxo

[macskull]

What is this change supposed to even accomplish? Higher-level enemies don't present any specifically harder challenge other than taking longer to kill.

[Cherry]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

You want to make a TF *very* difficult?  Use the "No Enhancements" challenge option.  (already exists in game)

we've done this and its super fun.. and it was for sure a harder challenge. 

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Yep.  I've done a Lord Recluse Strike Force with no enhancements, no inspirations, players debuffed, and enemies buffed.  This was on a Sonic Resonance Corruptor mind you.  My endurance was pretty much non-existent. 😄

That's hardcore. I think I'd have to ease myself into it with just "no enhancements" at first.  That right there would still be a big hump to get used to.

• Your set bonuses?  silly rabbit, No enhancements, so no set bonuses.
• And you're gonna miss.  A LOT.  Because no more +Acc in any of your powers.  Suddennly that extra innate acc in MA and Archery doens't look so useless, and it's "Group Hug" on your teammate who are running Tactics. (or any of the leadership buffs, really)
• And you're gonna get hit a lot more, and harder.  No set bonuses, so only an SR or something like that is going to run around with any kind of Softcap going on.  And no one has any +Res or +Def enhancements going on.  And no one has extra life totals from set bonuses, either.

All in all, that right there is like you're fighting a host of MUCH high level enemies.  Becuase they have a much easier time hitting you, you have a harder time hitting them, when you do hit, you hit for less because your attack powers have not +Dam slotted, and no host of dmg procs anyone.  You'd reallly appreciate bubbles of ANY KIND, FF/Ice/Sonic/Thermal, and as much as you're gonna want lots of leadership toggles going on, you also have much more endurance issues.... so you'd likely want an Empath for Recovery Aura, a Kin for Speed Boost, or the thing Elec Affin can do whose name I can't remember.  You might even need to *gasp* rest! between fights!

 

I definitely can see it being fun, but I also think it's a thing I'd want to do only a few times a week, not constant gameplay. 

 

I do get nostalgic on Endgame Progression Raiding sometimes, and this would scratch that itch nicely.   But at the same time... I cancelled that WoW account for a reason and I'm never going back lol.  Gameface for a saturday, I can do.  But it can never be a full-time job ever again, like in the WoW days.

[ArchVileTerror]

Not to get -too- sassy, but . . . 

You want a REAL challenge?

You want to prove that you're the best there ever was?

 

 . . . sort through the forums and create a comprehensive guide for every thread that is about the game's difficulty.

Bonus points if you include an addendum which has a link to every post that has ever had a mere mention of game difficulty!

 

Your time starts . . . NOW!

[Bunmaster]

i like forming +4 speedruns at 50, very hectic, very fun! Funny thing is, people don't read the +4 part, see "Speed" assume it's +0 😛

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bunmaster

[MTeague]

4 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Not to get -too- sassy, but . . . 

You want a REAL challenge?

You want to prove that you're the best there ever was?

 

 . . . sort through the forums and create a comprehensive guide for every thread that is about the game's difficulty.

Bonus points if you include an addendum which has a link to every post that has ever had a mere mention of game difficulty!

 

Your time starts . . . NOW!

I yield, I yield!

[Heraclea]

Tried to run Katie Hannon on +2 this evening.  It ended in tears.

 

Now, it's been my longstanding suggestion to offer master badges for Posi 1, Posi 2, and Synapse, on the usual condition: no temps, no deaths.  That would be difficult in ways that Master of ITF is not. 

[Bunmaster]

Too many times the Mo*insert tf* are done at +0. With all the incarnate powers and IOs, it is simply a cake walk.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Bunmaster said:

Too many times the Mo*insert tf* are done at +0. With all the incarnate powers and IOs, it is simply a cake walk.

"Master of ______" doesn't say "exceptional player" to me.  It says "cautious player".

[Oubliette_Red]

13 hours ago, Plasmar said:

Oh, I realize you can set a difficulty level.

 

However, this would be more of a starting point without getting into major coding changes for resists or hit points, etc.

Taking away options and increasing difficulty across the board for everyone?

 

 

[Luminara]

21 hours ago, macskull said:

What is this change supposed to even accomplish? Higher-level enemies don't present any specifically harder challenge other than taking longer to kill.

 

This.  It's 2020.  Difficulty needs to be more sophisticated than extra absorbent bullet sponges.

[Troo]

6 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

This.  It's 2020.  Difficulty needs to be more sophisticated than extra absorbent bullet sponges.

Expectations of a volunteer effort related to a game from 2004 may be a bit high. We're just glad we can play, aren't we?

[ArchVileTerror]

We certainly are glad to play, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of brainstorming and sharing ideas.  We're passionate about this game.  We certainly don't see eye-to-eye on many topics as a collective community, but as long as stuff doesn't get bitter and toxic, I think it's only ever a good thing to express our hopes and expectations.  Even when those have no reasonable likelihood of implementation, they may at least spawn new ideas that lead to mutually agreeable compromises.  Or at the very least help the community refine its collective identity in terms of what the Homecoming Servers mean to us.

 

Short version:  Talking about it doesn't hurt.

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

Expectations of a volunteer effort related to a game from 2004 may be a bit high. We're just glad we can play, aren't we?

 

Rewriting the difficulty scalar specifically for T/SFs and trials is what I consider to be inflated expectation.  There are less resource intensive ways to accomplish the goal.

[Grouchybeast]

16 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

"Master of ______" doesn't say "exceptional player" to me.  It says "cautious player".

"Cautious player with a stable internet connection."