Chance Jackson Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Not all T1s are created equal & some kinda suck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotedancer Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Got stuck taking something like Gust, huh? XD (And yeah. It would be nice sometimes to have a choice...) Edited June 27, 2020 by Coyotedancer 2 Taker of screenshots. Player of creepy Oranbegans and Rularuu bird-things. Kai's Diary: The Scrapbook of a Sorcerer's Apprentice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 They tried it with the Page Four update, and Captain Powerhouse said that it is just too hard coded into the game that it would break it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpousVileTerror Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) I believe this request has cropped up a few times, and while the Devs (to the best of my knowledge) haven't addressed it directly, there were some players and OuroDev folks who poked and prodded at it. It's apparently not a simple thing, but doable with some serious potential breakage. It also fundamentally alters a basic component of the gameplay, and that's something which the Homecoming Team has officially stated is not their intent. Doesn't guarantee it won't happen, of course. Just . . . I recommend tempering your expectations on this one. And for the record, I'm not against it . . . there are a few Sets that it would actually open up for me (Martial Combat and Savage Assault, in particular). Follow up to @Apparition: I must have missed that. Do you have some linkage? Edited June 27, 2020 by ImpousVileTerror Apparition replied at roughly the same time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 It’s something I’d really like to see. I really don’t think it would result in any major shift in the game balance if it happened. Worst thing would probably be Stalkers gimping themselves by skipping Hide, but you could solve that by putting a flashing arrow or exclamation point next to Hide on the power selection screens until the player actually chooses it. A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpousVileTerror Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Or making Hide Inherent, and then spending all the Dev Time to add one more Power to every Stalker Secondary. . . . like an AoE Placate. But then Ninjitsu needs something else . . . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaTrain Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Maybe it would just be easier to swap some of the less awesome T1 powers with their T2s. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTeague Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 minute ago, TraumaTrain said: Maybe it would just be easier to swap some of the less awesome T1 powers with their T2s. If you had universal agreement on which ones were bad, maybe. I have a few characters where I *like* the T1, and I do not want the T2. 4 Roster: MTeague's characters: The Good, The Bad, and The Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 59 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said: Follow up to @Apparition: I must have missed that. Do you have some linkage? Here is one post, there are others. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeraphia Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, ImpousVileTerror said: Or making Hide Inherent, and then spending all the Dev Time to add one more Power to every Stalker Secondary. Love this idea 100%. Although, I'd be lying if I said this thread wasn't rooted in a lot of "power creep." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leogunner Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Apparition said: Here is one post, there are others. The cliffnotes version had to do with changes to the Tanker AT where they wanted to give the option to pick the tier 2 attack to assist in the AT's damage. Because it caused issues, they tried instead to just swap the position of the tier 1 and tier 2 attacks but I recall that causing some issues and backlash since it actually weakened some sets. Personally speaking: since the powersets aren't trees but pools, having some mandatory options to get to other powers is a balancing mechanism. Asking to skip out on this mechanism is very similar to asking to pick higher level powers at lower levels or if it were a tree, just skipping to your choice in a tree. The advantage is, powers you are choosing to get to other powers but not to slot open up more slots for other powers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patti Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 So what if tier 1s gave synergies to later stuff? That way people feel like they made an investment, even though it doesn't,t really change anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpousVileTerror Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 The, uh, Hide as an Inherent thing was actually . . . sorta . . . kinda . . . a joke. Sorry. I know that wasn't terribly helpful of me. It's potentially a lot of balancing work for the Devs to do something of that nature. I mean, I'm not inherently against it, as I know that it could open up some options for other players. I just think if they ARE going to go that direction, there are probably other methods with a lower impact. That -does- seem to be a goal of theirs, even if they can't always obtain it: Low collateral impact when making changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Coyotedancer said: Got stuck taking something like Gust, huh? XD (And yeah. It would be nice sometimes to have a choice...) Gust blows more than it sucks but that's neither here nor there LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 My opinion: Setting aside 'moar freedom', it is only a few problematic secondaries that have bothered me with the forced choice of the (current) T1 power. My personal bugbear is the Traps secondary: Caltrops (the T2) is much more useful than Web Grenade (the T1) at all levels of play, especially the lowest levels. No amount of tinkering with the power itself will make me appreciate that power; I would much rather see them swapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Web Grenade in Traps is one of the few instances where I would seriously consider violating the cottage rule. A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greycat Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, tidge said: My opinion: Setting aside 'moar freedom', it is only a few problematic secondaries that have bothered me with the forced choice of the (current) T1 power. My personal bugbear is the Traps secondary: Caltrops (the T2) is much more useful than Web Grenade (the T1) at all levels of play, especially the lowest levels. No amount of tinkering with the power itself will make me appreciate that power; I would much rather see them swapped. I'd disagree. Especially lower level, locking something in place (instead of just slowing them down - if they'll even slow down - or dropping, say, those little flying clockwork out of the air is more useful than an easily avoided placed patch. Mind you, I take both. But I would never call web grenade particularly skippable. 2 Done with the Kheld "community" here. Since they obviously don't care about anything lore wise and crap on people who do. Kheld backstory guide might be uploaded in a non-Homecoming location when I finish the revision. No, it may not be put on the HC wiki, and what was there of my first one has been removed. Please do not reupload. I'm not giving the people here the benefit of the work just to be crapped on and told "lol, lore for a lore based AT, doesn't matter, f you." (Note, this refers to the playerbase, not the devs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Greycat said: I'd disagree. Especially lower level, locking something in place (instead of just slowing them down - if they'll even slow down - or dropping, say, those little flying clockwork out of the air is more useful than an easily avoided placed patch. The main difference in utility at low levels (for me) is that you have to make ToHit checks to use the Web Grenade. At high levels, why should I waste attacks on single flying anything that isn't a boss or greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Greycat said: I'd disagree. Especially lower level, locking something in place (instead of just slowing them down - if they'll even slow down - or dropping, say, those little flying clockwork out of the air is more useful than an easily avoided placed patch. Mind you, I take both. But I would never call web grenade particularly skippable. I'm also a fan of /Traps Web Grenade but I totally support others wanting to skip it & want them to have the freedom to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimKensai Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 On 6/27/2020 at 12:36 PM, Coyotedancer said: Got stuck taking something like Gust, huh? XD (And yeah. It would be nice sometimes to have a choice...) Not sure what gust is, assuming you meant Gale. Despite that, Gale is an amazing power, you stick 2 slots in it: Sudden Acceleration KB to KD and a Force Feedback proc and you now have an extremely large cone that recharges at a reasonable rate giving you and your team massive amounts of damage mitigation, while also pricing quite often giving you a massive recharge rate bonus. Both IO's are rather cheap, and turn a mediocre power into an outright overpowered one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said: Both IO's are rather cheap, and turn a mediocre power into an outright overpowered one. Except you spend 1/4-1/2 of all your time in battle just casting Gale, so not all that overpowered. Edited June 28, 2020 by Vanden A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/27/2020 at 9:34 AM, Chance Jackson said: Not all T1s are created equal & some kinda suck It is a game of choices and tradeoffs. There are a couple stinkers but there is the same hurdle in some power pools. "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Troo said: It is a game of choices and tradeoffs. There are a couple stinkers but there is the same hurdle in some power pools. True but you at least have a choice between your first power in every pool except for your secondary powerset Edited June 29, 2020 by Chance Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 1:36 AM, Coyotedancer said: Got stuck taking something like Gust, huh? XD (And yeah. It would be nice sometimes to have a choice...) I think you mean Gale, but to be honest, I'd take Gale over 02 Boost in my Ill/SS build... Both those powers need some love (Gale needs more damage, O2 Boost needs to be a PBAoE or TAoE). Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 15 hours ago, tidge said: My opinion: Setting aside 'moar freedom', it is only a few problematic secondaries that have bothered me with the forced choice of the (current) T1 power. My personal bugbear is the Traps secondary: Caltrops (the T2) is much more useful than Web Grenade (the T1) at all levels of play, especially the lowest levels. No amount of tinkering with the power itself will make me appreciate that power; I would much rather see them swapped. Most Manipulation T1s are underpowered and fairly useless single target immobilizes. I almost never slot them and would 99% of the time choose the T2 over the T1 for Manipulation sets. 1 Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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