Seeing that an 8 player team defeated Hami - What do the Devs think of the power creep ?

[Ukase]

12 hours ago, DougGraves said:

It would be nice to have godmode servers and skill play servers.

What you mean is it would be nice to have a server where a lot of people enjoyed playing the content the same way you enjoy it. 

I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they lack the resources. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they don't understand game mechanics. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they haven't figured out how to use Mids. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because for whatever reason they don't enjoy finishing a Master of Magisterium trial in one run which takes less than 5 minutes. 


But this distinction you make between "godmode" and "skill play" requires further explanation, because if you think for one split second that these "godmode" players aren't highly skilled, you are really missing the mark. 

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Personally, I don't find them very clever at all....they should have kept it to themselves because they should have KNOWN that it would create a ruckus on these forums....but they didn't soooooo...

Why should they not share this very clear example of great strategy and well-executed plan? Who cares about "a ruckus on the forums"? If it wasn't this, it would be something else. There's always a ruckus. I find these players to be what ALL players should aspire to grow into when they play. 

Someone with a clear understanding of game mechanics. 
Someone with an obvious ability to create optimal builds. 
Someone with a clear understanding of how to generate enough influence where they can fund these optimal builds. 

These folks are brilliant. There is no room for debate. Granted, in many cases, it's the brilliance of a few who share certain tactics and strategies that the team/league execute, but they come together and overcome obstacles and solve problems. They should be given respect. 

[Darmian]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

 find these players to be what ALL players should aspire to grow into when they play. 

Someone with a clear understanding of game mechanics. 
Someone with an obvious ability to create optimal builds. 
Someone with a clear understanding of how to generate enough influence where they can fund these optimal builds. 
 

Agree with everything you've said except this. All players should aspire to? Nah. 

[ShardWarrior]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Why should they not share this very clear example of great strategy and well-executed plan? Who cares about "a ruckus on the forums"? If it wasn't this, it would be something else. There's always a ruckus. I find these players to be what ALL players should aspire to grow into when they play. 

Someone with a clear understanding of game mechanics. 
Someone with an obvious ability to create optimal builds. 
Someone with a clear understanding of how to generate enough influence where they can fund these optimal builds. 

These folks are brilliant. There is no room for debate. Granted, in many cases, it's the brilliance of a few who share certain tactics and strategies that the team/league execute, but they come together and overcome obstacles and solve problems. They should be given respect. 

Agreed.  The only people making noise are those who want to force everyone to play the way they do rather than letting people have fun the way they like.  I also find it funny that people will complain about a specialized 8 man team taking hours to defeat Hamidon when a full raid can effortlessly accomplish this in under 3 minutes. 

[Solarverse]

10 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Why should they not share this very clear example of great strategy and well-executed plan? Who cares about "a ruckus on the forums"? If it wasn't this, it would be something else. There's always a ruckus. I find these players to be what ALL players should aspire to grow into when they play. 

Someone with a clear understanding of game mechanics. 
Someone with an obvious ability to create optimal builds. 
Someone with a clear understanding of how to generate enough influence where they can fund these optimal builds. 

These folks are brilliant. There is no room for debate. Granted, in many cases, it's the brilliance of a few who share certain tactics and strategies that the team/league execute, but they come together and overcome obstacles and solve problems. They should be given respect. 

Because casual gamers who do not play to the style that the others play at don't realize the gravity of the situation. I mean, yeah, sure, share away. However, this is where guides are helpful to help people understand *why* they were able to pull this off rather than leave it to speculation.

I was going to touch up on the "aspire to be comment" but it looks like Darmain beat me to it. The only expectations we should have is the expectations we place among ourselves, not what others believe we should be expected to aspire to be. I have been saying this since I was in my 20's. Too many people always telling you that you have to be this to win the game of life...you win the game of life whenever you achieve your goals, not the goals others place on you.

I hear you and what you are saying though, I just do not believe that it is realistic to think that this is a goal that everyone wants to reach. Reach for the stars...if that is where you wish to go. Know what I mean?

But yeah, if somebody in that group would make a guide on this, hell, I myself would love to have a peek.  😉

[Solarverse]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Agreed.  The only people making noise are those who want to force everyone to play the way they do rather than letting people have fun the way they like.  I also find it funny that people will complain about a specialized 8 man team taking hours to defeat Hamidon when a full raid can effortlessly accomplish this in under 3 minutes. 

I don't really think it was all that, I just think the OP did not have the understanding of the game to have a knowledge of how that would be possible unless the game was insanely OP.

[Luminara]

Hey, wait a moment...

 

Not one person has mentioned making or playing The Power Creep.  There's usually half a dozen people jumping to create a new character inspired by a forum comment, and The Power Creep would actually be a good one.  But no-one's on it?

 

Did I wake up in the Bizarro Lumiverse?

 

Again?

[Lines]

I don't think 8-man hami is necessarily symptomatic of power creep. I see power creep as an increase in average player power vs average environment power - which has definitely happened. But this is still a very impressive edge case.

[Ukase]

Fair enough, calling me out on my "ALL players" comment. 
I shouldn't have said it like that. 

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Fair enough, calling me out on my "ALL players" comment. 
I shouldn't have said it like that. 

Not so much calling you out, more saying, " Hi, not one of those, nor are these guys".  Gives friendly wave!

[Solarverse]

7 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Fair enough, calling me out on my "ALL players" comment. 
I shouldn't have said it like that. 

Not calling you out at all. Just having a friendly conversation. Hell, we have all said something similar before. I think anyone who claims that they have not said things similar would be a liar. So it's not like we ourselves have not been in that same spot. At least you recognize it was a bad choice of words, some people would rather just argue about it. You are still good in my book.  🙂

[Ukase]

No worries here. I was on the first league that got RHW on Torchbearer. I was essentially a pug, to fill in a spot simply because I was a blaster with all the right incarnate stuff. 

I've also been on hami zergs with no clearing of mitos after the zone cap, as well as Master of Magisterium in one run, under 5 minutes. I've done some of the speed runs, with the email open, snagging red insps as I went. (I'm only barely competent at that - my builds are built for speed-ish, but not on that level)

The discussion preceding these activities - why this powerset is a better choice than that powerset for this specific purpose - really fascinating stuff, and if you have only a basic level of understanding, you learn a lot. I get that not everyone would want to dig into the math determining why one proc would be good in this power, but not that one, for example. The math just isn't fun for everyone, and the subjective fun, or amusement, or interest or entertainment, call it what you will - that's what we're all after. I just think if every player suffered through the math, they could have more amusement, interest, entertainment, whatever. Read the instruction manual before you build, that kind of thing. Granted, there's no wrong way to build a character, and playstyle preferences are real. But the difference between viable and optimal is noticeable. 

 

[skoryy]

 

19 hours ago, skoryy said:

Everyone's dug in on this topic like it's 1917 on the Western Front, and they're absolutely convinced the next artillery barrage over No Man's Land will be the one that'll win the war.

I see someone just threw a grenade into No Man's Land.

[Solarverse]

Just now, skoryy said:

 

I see someone just threw a grenade into No Man's Land.

No fair bringing futuristic weapons to a cowboy showdown!

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Hey, wait a moment...

 

Not one person has mentioned making or playing The Power Creep.  There's usually half a dozen people jumping to create a new character inspired by a forum comment, and The Power Creep would actually be a good one.  But no-one's on it?

 

Did I wake up in the Bizarro Lumiverse?

 

Again?

Would the battle cry be, "I am the POWER, Creep!"?

[Coyotedancer]

Preeeeetty sure Power Creep already exists on Everlasting, at least. I think I may even have PUGed with him once upon a time. 😝

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Twisted Toon said:

Would the battle cry be, "I am the POWER, Creep!"?

 

I was thinking something a bit more salacious would be appropriate.  Asking for numbers, making suggestive comments, pausing to look up skirts, et cetera.

[DougGraves]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Alternatively, you can find others who have a similar mindset and team up together. 

 

Right.  And having the game make that easier to do would be nice.

 

[DougGraves]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

What you mean is it would be nice to have a server where a lot of people enjoyed playing the content the same way you enjoy it. 

I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they lack the resources. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they don't understand game mechanics. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because they haven't figured out how to use Mids. 
I will concede the point that many don't play "godmode" because for whatever reason they don't enjoy finishing a Master of Magisterium trial in one run which takes less than 5 minutes. 


But this distinction you make between "godmode" and "skill play" requires further explanation, because if you think for one split second that these "godmode" players aren't highly skilled, you are really missing the mark. 

 

Right.  Many people don't play godmode because they can't look at a forum post on a godmode build and look at another forum post on how to farm or just make money on the market.  Because it takes so much skill to look those things up and then copy them.

 

But I do need some explanation.  When a character has soft capped defense, what player skill is required to stop enemies from hitting them?  Does the RNG do a player skill check before deciding if the attack hits?

 

Because see players who farm, possibly just door sitting to do it, copy someone else's build, and then with huge IO set bonuses can solo x8 spawns at level 25 - I don't see any player skill that is obvious.  But perhaps you can explain to me the skill that they have that I am not seeing.

[Luminara]

56 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

Preeeeetty sure Power Creep already exists on Everlasting, at least. I think I may even have PUGed with him once upon a time. 😝

 

Everything exists on Everlasting.  Some putz has Luminara.  That putz isn't me, because I'm the putz who moved Luminara over to Everlasting and lost the name because it was already taken.

 

[Frostbiter]

22 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I was thinking something a bit more salacious would be appropriate.  Asking for numbers, making suggestive comments, pausing to look up skirts, et cetera.

My first thought for the battle cry when I read that was the ole Joey Tribbiani: "Hey how you doin?"

[ShardWarrior]

22 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

Right.  And having the game make that easier to do would be nice.

Where is the difficulty in using the various chat channels for forming groups?

 

19 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

But I do need some explanation.  When a character has soft capped defense, what player skill is required to stop enemies from hitting them? 

Soft capped defense does not mean "never get hit".

 

 

[Oubliette_Red]

28 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

 

Right.  Many people don't play godmode because they can't look at a forum post on a godmode build and look at another forum post on how to farm or just make money on the market.  Because it takes so much skill to look those things up and then copy them.

 

But I do need some explanation.  When a character has soft capped defense, what player skill is required to stop enemies from hitting them?  Does the RNG do a player skill check before deciding if the attack hits?

 

Because see players who farm, possibly just door sitting to do it, copy someone else's build, and then with huge IO set bonuses can solo x8 spawns at level 25 - I don't see any player skill that is obvious.  But perhaps you can explain to me the skill that they have that I am not seeing.

Personally (and I'm sure others are in the same boat) I don't spend a lot of time looking at builds in the forums, or fiddle with Mids, because I don't care. I just want to play my character and will craft/slot IOs that work for that given character's power combination, otherwise I'd rather be spending time playing rather than crunching numbers.

 

Running around roasting the enemy = fun

Number crunching ≠ fun

 

Your opinion may differ.

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

Hey, wait a moment...

 

Not one person has mentioned making or playing The Power Creep.  There's usually half a dozen people jumping to create a new character inspired by a forum comment, and The Power Creep would actually be a good one.  But no-one's on it?

 

Did I wake up in the Bizarro Lumiverse?

 

Again?

Only available on REunion.

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

Right.  Many people don't play godmode because they can't look at a forum post on a godmode build and look at another forum post on how to farm or just make money on the market.  Because it takes so much skill to look those things up and then copy them.

 

But I do need some explanation.  When a character has soft capped defense, what player skill is required to stop enemies from hitting them?  Does the RNG do a player skill check before deciding if the attack hits?

 

Because see players who farm, possibly just door sitting to do it, copy someone else's build, and then with huge IO set bonuses can solo x8 spawns at level 25 - I don't see any player skill that is obvious.  But perhaps you can explain to me the skill that they have that I am not seeing.

What's your point?  You're describing things that, as you correctly state, do not require skill.

We were talking about about something that does require skill - in both planning and execution.