Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Hew]

Yes. But I run fold space, so..... I am always saturated? Farm or not?

[Troo]

On 11/10/2020 at 3:58 PM, Wavicle said:

Having "mini games" that give you better damage if you do your rotation correctly is one of the main ways MMOs make classes interesting to play. NOT having them is one of the things in CoH that is generally boring, to be honest. Differentiation and specificity is better, imo.

No.

 

"Having mini games" in power sets. Okay you like them, not everyone does.

"NOT having them".. Umm there are some in CoX, aren't there?

If everything has some builder spender or combo mechanic that's frankly the opposite of "Differentiation and specificity".

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Troo

[Vanden]

Okay! We're up to release candidates, so that means it's time to knuckle down and fix all the fiddly little issues that are left. I checked, and EM still has the following issues:

 

1. Power Crash still has the blobby FX with the Bright power customization theme, but they look right with the Original and Dark themes.
2. Power Crash still makes the annoying double-thud sound because it plays a thud sound on every target hit, AND the FX that play on the target regardless of hit or miss also make a thud. (The same FX that are blobby in the Bright theme, as mentioned above). Just remove that latter thud sound and we're good.
3. Fast Energy Transfer still hits the enemy, damage and FX both, just a hair later than it feels like it should.
4. Total Focus doesn't play hit FX on the target even on a hit about half the time.

[Jimmy]

12 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Okay! We're up to release candidates, so that means it's time to knuckle down and fix all the fiddly little issues that are left. I checked, and EM still has the following issues:

 

1. Power Crash still has the blobby FX with the Bright power customization theme, but they look right with the Original and Dark themes.
2. Power Crash still makes the annoying double-thud sound because it plays a thud sound on every target hit, AND the FX that play on the target regardless of hit or miss also make a thud. (The same FX that are blobby in the Bright theme, as mentioned above). Just remove that latter thud sound and we're good.
3. Fast Energy Transfer still hits the enemy, damage and FX both, just a hair later than it feels like it should.
4. Total Focus doesn't play hit FX on the target even on a hit about half the time.

Can you bump old bug threads or post new bug threads for these? Much easier for us to keep track. Thank you!

[Vanden]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Can you bump old bug threads or post new bug threads for these? Much easier for us to keep track. Thank you!

I will do as you ask

[Vanden]

Okay I posted threads for everything but the double-thud on Power Crash, since it isn't really a bug, just something that really annoys me. For that I'll instead just reiterate here, in this feedback thread, my feedback: the double-thud on Power Crash is so annoying. Pretty please get rid of one of the thuds?

[Saulty_Dawg1992]

When do these changes go live? Also, does anyone have any builds they would like to share?  Was debating doing a Invuln/EM, Bio/EM, or Rad/EM tanker.

[Myrmidon]

 

4 minutes ago, Saulty_Dawg1992 said:

When do these changes go live? Also, does anyone have any builds they would like to share?  Was debating doing a Invuln/EM, Bio/EM, or Rad/EM tanker.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Myrmidon

[Saulty_Dawg1992]

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

 

 

 

?? What exactly am i looking at? Lnk seems to be broken

 

[Solarverse]

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

Okay I posted threads for everything but the double-thud on Power Crash, since it isn't really a bug, just something that really annoys me. For that I'll instead just reiterate here, in this feedback thread, my feedback: the double-thud on Power Crash is so annoying. Pretty please get rid of one of the thuds?

You mean the thud stacking effect upon multiple targets or something else? I have been fighting tooth and nail to get all of our stacking effects back, so I am hoping this is not what you are referring to. *crosses fingers*

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

You mean the thud stacking effect upon multiple targets or something else? I have been fighting tooth and nail to get all of our stacking effects back, so I am hoping this is not what you are referring to. *crosses fingers*

It’s playing as if it’s stacking even when there’s only one guy.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Wavicle said:

It’s playing as if it’s stacking even when there’s only one guy.

Ah okay. Yeah, no stacking unless multiple targets hit please.

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It’s playing as if it’s stacking even when there’s only one guy.

Odd, that makes me wonder how that is happening. That should be impossible unless somebody placed a 2 in the place of a 1 on the hit command. Code Rant applies. It should only play once per target hit and I believe only stacks up to 3 or 4 times max. Any more than that would risk blowing speakers. This is just an educated guess of course having dealt with sound files and modding them over the past few months.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Solarverse

[Vanden]

11 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Odd, that makes me wonder how that is happening. That should be impossible unless somebody placed a 4 in the place of a 1 on the hit command. Code Rant applies. It should only play once per target hit and I believe only stacks up to 3 or 4 times max. Any more than that would risk blowing speakers. This is just an educated guess of course having dealt with sound files and modding them over the past few months.

Power Crash plays 2 different FX on enemy targets: one is the hit FX that plays on a successful ToHit roll on every target hit. The other is a special FX that only plays on the targeted foe, and plays regardless of whether the target is hit or miss. This FX is just meant to generally indicate the power's area of effect. Both FX play that thud sound, but out of sync. I just want the thud sound effect taken out of the second FX.

[Myrmidon]

28 minutes ago, Saulty_Dawg1992 said:

?? What exactly am i looking at? Lnk seems to be broken

 

 It was supposed to be a “soon” photo, however, user error may have broken it.

[Vulpoid]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but on a scrapper what secondary would you recommend to patch any holes or synergize particularly well with the new Energy Melee?

Thank you for any advice! 

[Coyote]

59 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but on a scrapper what secondary would you recommend to patch any holes or synergize particularly well with the new Energy Melee?

Thank you for any advice! 

 

EM's rotation automatically damages you, although I think Scrappers may have a way to avoid it sometimes.

But for that reason, I would avoid it with a set that only mitigates incoming damage like Invuln, SD, SR... and run it with a set that's build to take damage and heal or regenerate it. Regen, Willpower, Electric, Fire, Dark, etc. Basically, any set where a good build either has high Regen, or regularly uses a heal.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but on a scrapper what secondary would you recommend to patch any holes or synergize particularly well with the new Energy Melee?

Thank you for any advice!  @Vulpoid

 

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

EM's rotation automatically damages you, although I think Scrappers may have a way to avoid it sometimes.

But for that reason, I would avoid it with a set that only mitigates incoming damage like Invuln, SD, SR... and run it with a set that's build to take damage and heal or regenerate it. Regen, Willpower, Electric, Fire, Dark, etc. Basically, any set where a good build either has high Regen, or regularly uses a heal.

I would say it works well with any set. Invuln does have a heal, regen can cover it also and the rebirth incarnate.

 

But in particualr it could work well with SR. The lower SR health goes down the higher its mitigation goes up, it could actually work quite well lol.

 

Some sets have extra stun in them like Dark Armour and Stalker Energy Aura which could work well also. Stun procs in powers like lightning field may work well, also anything that taunts and quite a few attacks take stun procs. How well they will work though i don't know i have not tested them.

 

But i think any set is viable. Just pick the one you like.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Ukase]

The big irritant I have with the chance from Stun to Power Crash is the reduction in recharge time, and the change from single target to cone. While it's probably going to be a plus...I have Touch of Death %Neg Energy, and Glad Strike's % Smashing, Mako's % Lethal and Perfect Zinger's % psionic. (The plan is to unslot the Mako's and toss in the -res Fury of Glad., take out the Glad Strike % Smashing and throw in the Eradication % energy....but I'm thinking the change from melee to cone will throw off the odds.)

And I get to keep them in there...if I don't ever respec the character, if I understand the patch notes correctly. Seems like a strange thing.  

 

[Infinitum]

16 hours ago, Saulty_Dawg1992 said:

When do these changes go live? Also, does anyone have any builds they would like to share?  Was debating doing a Invuln/EM, Bio/EM, or Rad/EM tanker.

I have a few :-)  I'll have to send them to you in forum format if thats ok.

[Infinitum]

16 hours ago, Vulpoid said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but on a scrapper what secondary would you recommend to patch any holes or synergize particularly well with the new Energy Melee?

Thank you for any advice! 

Try a Fire EM tank if you are looking for dmg try a invul EM tank if you want more durability.

 

For max insanity try a EM EA stalker or scrapper - even EM shield stalker - 2 AOEs.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Infinitum

[0th Power]

On 11/12/2020 at 9:43 AM, 0th Power said:

Has anyone done testing on the average increase in targets hit on power crash in EF mode in non farming conditions?  If not, I will try to set something up.

 

Proposed Conditions (let me know if anyone sees any flaws)

-lv 50 Invulnerability (for a non damaging taunt aura and increase to hit) tank or brute

-"racetrack" of Perez Park

-All powers slotted for over 90% accuracy

 

Control

-Engage group

-Lead with bone smasher

-1 second to line up the cone

-Execute power crash

-Record number of targets hit

 

Energy Focus

-Engage group

-Lead with total focus

-1 second to line up the cone

-Execute power crash

-Record number of targets hit

 

Expected outcome - The average targets hit in Energy Focus will be between 1-2 greater than the control group.

 

 

First, the groups in Perez were less numerous than 16(and they were running away, despite my taunt aura, Possible bug) , so I ran a quick radio council mission (one mission dose not a good study make, I know) just to see.  I started with energy focus mode and I was at the aggro cap.  Even then, I was only hitting 7-9 targets.  I think I could get more if I corner herded them, but that's not my playstyle (neither is a jump punch).  The energy focus mode for power crash for tankers leaves something to be desired.  Right now it is just a waste of fast ET in normal situations.

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, 0th Power said:

First, the groups in Perez were less numerous than 16(and they were running away, despite my taunt aura, Possible bug) , so I ran a quick radio council mission (one mission dose not a good study make, I know) just to see.  I started with energy focus mode and I was at the aggro cap.  Even then, I was only hitting 7-9 targets.  I think I could get more if I corner herded them, but that's not my playstyle (neither is a jump punch).  The energy focus mode for power crash for tankers leaves something to be desired.  Right now it is just a waste of fast ET in normal situations.

 

Have to say, my own testing of Power Crash is I didn't care for it.  Now, my testing wasn't charting anything down for it, and I was just running PI Radio missions, however, I didn't find I hit all that many.  I think three was my best, but I wasn't herding either (not my playstyle).

 

Of course, I thought back to Street Justice and I didn't recall doing all that well with Sweeping Cross (which I got rid of a long time ago) and I honestly don't recall doing the best with Spinning Strike, but I love it's animation to much to care 100%, but I thought all that needed was a slight radius increase perhaps.

[Gobbledigook]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Have to say, my own testing of Power Crash is I didn't care for it.  Now, my testing wasn't charting anything down for it, and I was just running PI Radio missions, however, I didn't find I hit all that many.  I think three was my best, but I wasn't herding either (not my playstyle).

 

Of course, I thought back to Street Justice and I didn't recall doing all that well with Sweeping Cross (which I got rid of a long time ago) and I honestly don't recall doing the best with Spinning Strike, but I love it's animation to much to care 100%, but I thought all that needed was a slight radius increase perhaps.

It is hard to hit the target cap with power crash, but it is with most cones.

 

I can do about 8 on a Tanker if i line them up well without the EF buff and about 12 with the EF buff. I think the target cap is achievable, just not very easily.

 

Compared to Dark Melee's Shadow Maul i found SM easier to hit more targets. PC has longer range but SM has a wider arc on a Tanker, i guess the wider arc works better but it would depend on how the mobs are stacked.

 

But PC isn't that bad really. Seems a little clunky with setting up the EF buff though so i probably just won't bother using EF with it unless i am dead set on clearing a lot of trash. Comparing to Dark melee for example the AoE is near on par but the single target damage of EM is way above DM.

 

For me Energy focus will be spent on ET only with it's fast recharge. The rest doesn't really interest me.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[BrandX]

24 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

It is hard to hit the target cap with power crash, but it is with most cones.

 

I can do about 8 on a Tanker if i line them up well without the EF buff and about 12 with the EF buff. I think the target cap is achievable, just not very easily.

 

Compared to Dark Melee's Shadow Maul i found SM easier to hit more targets. PC has longer range but SM has a wider arc on a Tanker, i guess the wider arc works better but it would depend on how the mobs are stacked.

 

But PC isn't that bad really. Seems a little clunky with setting up the EF buff though so i probably just won't bother using EF with it unless i am dead set on clearing a lot of trash. Comparing to Dark melee for example the AoE is near on par but the single target damage of EM is way above DM.

 

For me Energy focus will be spent on ET only with it's fast recharge. The rest doesn't really interest me.

 

Well, I didn't think it was any worse than some other cones.  

 

As someone who's played EM before, I was always happy with just WH.   I had my WH down to under 6 seconds on my Brute before I shelved it (EM/Regen...love the idea of Regen, it just doesn't feel durable in play) and now I can do that with more damage?  Also, I think I'll have it faster on my Scrapper build.

 

As of now, I'm skipping it.  If it was a Targeted AOE, with the AOE around the target, like Spinning Strike, but with a better radius (8ft?) I'd be all over PC.  As of now, I'm meh on it.  However, others seem to like it.

 

Also, it's not like I took Stun, so I'm not losing much.