Sets with no healing

[dekova]

I see the occasional discussion about a primary/secondary with no healing (like warmace/shield). For those with these types of sets, how do you deal with the lack of healing, especially in long tough fights?

 

Inspirations? The healing pool? Procs? Only play in groups?

 

How much of an issue is it and what works best?

Edited February 12, 2021 by dekova

[Apparition]

Inspirations, procs, teams, Rebirth Destiny, or a combination of all of the above.

[Haijinx]

Passive regen does fine.  

 

While leveling maybe rest every once in a while between fights until your IOs fill in.   

 

You do exactly the same damage at 75% health, 50% health and 25% health.  So the Health bar is just a graphical representation of a number

[Murcielago]

22 hours ago, dekova said:

I see the occasional discussion about a primary/secondary with no healing (like warmace/shield). For those with these types of sets, how do you deal with the lack of healing, especially in long tough fights?

 

Inspirations? The healing pool? Procs? Only play in groups?

 

How much of an issue is it and what works best?

Kill them before they kill me. 

[Nayeh]

A lot of this is pretty generalized and may not be an available option for a Scrapper specifically.

 

- Inspirations - Know how to mintigate debuffs and CC applied to you. In addition to the occasional greens.

- Buffs

- Procs

- Slotting - Ever fight Devouring Earth without Knockback protection? *groans*

- Regneration

- Incarnates

- Overwhelming crowd-control to lock down an enemy from being able to attack. Chaining knockdowns, stuns, holds, slows, fears.

- Playing with Line-of-Sight. Funnel your enemies through a threshold to force them closer.

- Confusion (Ever try confusing a monster that can heal/buff you?)

- Pets to mitigate damage.

- Kiting to draw out fights. Similar to playing with Line-of-Sight, but involves distancing enemy numbers apart into manageable sizes.

- Prioritizing the right targets. Sometimes it's better to focus a tough/annoying enemies and to let minions to die from splash AoE damage.

- Sticking to enemy groups that are at a disadvantage. Notice how PI radio teams tend to stick to council because they're 'easier' compared to CoT, Carnival, and Arachnos mission?

[Hopeling]

Mainly inspirations. On /WP or /Fire I try to keep a few purples around for rough moments; on /SD or /Inv I keep a few greens. I'm also not above using /ah to load up between missions; I often zone in with a tray that looks exactly like my avatar.

 

Passive regen is also more important than you might think; 300%ish from set bonuses and uniques means you can take about twice as much sustained damage as you could with just unslotted Health. Every 100% regen amounts to a free Respite every 60s, more if you have +HP from powers or accolades.

 

War Mace specifically is also very good at juggling enemies. Picking out either the hard-hitting boss or the annoying-debuff minion/LT and keeping them on their back until they die really reduces the danger.

[DreadShinobi]

57 minutes ago, Hopeling said:

; I often zone in with a tray that looks exactly like my avatar.

Giggles.

57 minutes ago, Hopeling said:

Passive regen is also more important than you might think; 300%ish from set bonuses and uniques means you can take about twice as much sustained damage as you could with just unslotted Health. Every 100% regen amounts to a free Respite every 60s, more if you have +HP from powers or accolades.

I have also found that passive regeneration is extremely undervalued by the community. 

 

My Psi/Shield Scrapper has 2216 hp and 312% regen, or 28.8 hp/sec, 1728 hp/min, which is a ton of mitigation (to all damage types) on top of softcapped positionals. Kill speed and any crowd control you have extend the effectiveness of passive regeneration. I also like a sizeable regen stack on squishies lacking self healing as well, such as my Poison and Cold Domination defenders and corrs. My fire/cold corr has 1481 hp and 284% regen, or 1053 hp/min for example and it really makes a difference in the amount of incoming damage you can ignore and the amount of extra red insps you can bring.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Hopeling said:

Mainly inspirations. On /WP or /Fire I try to keep a few purples around for rough moments; on /SD or /Inv I keep a few greens. I'm also not above using /ah to load up between missions; I often zone in with a tray that looks exactly like my avatar.

 

Passive regen is also more important than you might think; 300%ish from set bonuses and uniques means you can take about twice as much sustained damage as you could with just unslotted Health. Every 100% regen amounts to a free Respite every 60s, more if you have +HP from powers or accolades.

 

War Mace specifically is also very good at juggling enemies. Picking out either the hard-hitting boss or the annoying-debuff minion/LT and keeping them on their back until they die really reduces the danger.

 

WP and Fire both have healing.  WP through regeneration and Fire through a clickie heal.  Invulnerable has Dull Pain for a click heal too.

 

However, to go with /Shield and /SR, if they're softcapped, more regen and heal IOs seem like a good way to keep them standing.  I don't recall my Shield/Rad Tanker falling much at all.

[drgantz]

I'm trying an /SR with 3 slots in Health for regeneration.  I haven't tried it for very long, so I don't know if it is good yet

 

 

[Rokkeb]

I bought some med packs from the p2w vendor. pretty expensive for what they are IMO.. 25% heal on a 1 minute timer with a long cast time (3.33), and I've pretty much stopped using them anyway. But its an option if you're really struggling. 

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Med_Pack

[ZorkNemesis]

I have a couple Scrappers that don't heal.  Mainly a Mace/Shield and a Savage/Willpower (assuming regen doesn't count as healing).  They simply aim to murder before getting murdered.  When that doesn't work out I generally have some greens and purples at all times and expect to have access to Rebirth on at least one of them.

 

Mace/Shield is great at continuous knockdown and stun, Shield Charge knocks the group over, Crowd Control and Jawbreaker keep them fallen over (and Energy Torrent from Body Mastery) and Avalance in Whirling Mace just keeps everything floored.  The high defense of Shield also helps.

 

Savage/Willpower also aims to kill first but it's a little harder.  Without knockdown or stuns I have to rely on the Regen from Rise to the Challenge to stay alive most of the time.  Thankfully the damage she can put out is significant enough that it's usually not an issue unless i'm getting regen debuffed.  Savage Leap has the Gladiator Fury -Res proc in it, so I can usually evaporate groups with Blood Frenzy > Savage Leap > Fire Ball > Rending Flurry before they get their hits in

[Haijinx]

19 hours ago, drgantz said:

I'm trying an /SR with 3 slots in Health for regeneration.  I haven't tried it for very long, so I don't know if it is good yet

 

 

The uniques / proc type IOs work better.  Panacea comes to mind.  

 

And it works fine. 

 

I never even rest on my /SRs after about level 25 

[Doomguide2005]

On 2/16/2021 at 4:45 AM, Haijinx said:

The uniques / proc type IOs work better.  Panacea comes to mind.  

 

And it works fine. 

 

I never even rest on my /SRs after about level 25 

This and then some.  Accolades, +max health, +regen.  I pushed this hard on Live and was working that way on HC before the computer went belly up.  Last build on Live was over 2100 health and around 32hp/sec passive regen.  She has both Aid Self and Aid Another ... both are purely set mules.  I could remove them from my trays and never notice.  And that build is old, no Unbreakable Guard +max health, Reactive Defenses Scaling Resistance or any other newer post i23 special IOs are in the build.  It's also probably pretty unusual in terms of 6 slotting Health, 6 slotting Physical Perfection and 4 slots in Stamina for a lot of set bonuses in +max health and +regen in those powers.  Something like ~100 extra health from just set bonuses in those 3 powers alone.  (3 Miracle, 3 Numina's, 3 Regenerative Tissue and 7 Performance Shifter in those slots).  

 

Edit:  The last time I know she died was on an earlier build.  I got scrapperlocked, PB didn't  get fired and Reichsman stunned my stupid self followed by 2 shotting me with about 1800 damage before the equally stunned player or his teammates could react.  Oops, fortunately not a Master run.  But I did decide that I needed more health after that as he could have just as easily gotten lucky and hit me despite the soft cap for similar amounts.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Ah the memories

[hejtmane]

Back on live I ran aidself on my fire/sd for the av no inspiration fight way before incarnates

Edited February 20, 2021 by hejtmane

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, hejtmane said:

Back on live I ran aidself on my fire/sd for the av no inspiration fight way before incarnates

But then you you found incarnates and better slotting and learned that aid self was nothing but a DPS killer. Cuz you smart.

[hejtmane]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But then you you found incarnates and better slotting and learned that aid self was nothing but a DPS killer. Cuz you smart.

Yes but it allowed me to kill infernal no temps, no inspiration as a fire/sd which was a slog 50% fire and smashing resistance so the minor dps loss a the time was worth it yes that was a hour long fight.

[tidge]

I have yet to build a no-heal Scrapper w/ Unrelenting (Presence Pool), but I have done it with a SR Stalker (and Fortunata). Unrelenting is a pretty decent power (it also provides a +DMG and +Recharge boost) but it is has an inherently long recharge time... IIRC my Stalker build with it has it available roughly every 2.5 minutes.

 

Typically for a melee type, I will take the Presence pool powers in this order:

1. Provoke (I like the chance hitting multiple targets with it, and I like the Mocking Beratement set bonuses)
2. Intimidate <- Unfortunately as a single-target Fear (with bad Enhancement choices), this is pretty much a waste of a power
3. Unrelenting <- I try to get this between level 20 and 30, and 5-slot it with Preventive Medicine.

Pacify can very rarely be useful (1-on-1 with VERY HARD targets), but in my experience that is only in solo content. It is a no-brainer to not waste slots on it. Intimidate can almost serve the same purpose (to get a breather), but the trade off is that it can stack with teammates' Fears but has to overcome enemy Mez resistance.

 

I know that this is not a particularly well-loved set (It would be SO MUCH BETTER is either Invoke Panic or Unrelenting could be the second power pick) but it is something that I'll consider for a variety of builds.

 

[Sovera]

When we can buy medium greens between missions just by typing /ah it is usually sufficient.

[Saikochoro]

My non-healing builds are all shield defense or super reflexes. As such, my builds are softcapped and have good-great resists.  The enemies don’t do enough damage for me to really need healing. The regen I get from slotting and procs (panacea/numinas/power transfer) are enough 99% of the time. 
 

For the other 1% of the time I will carry a couple medium greens. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Saikochoro

[Troo]

um.. teammates

 

/em dropsmic

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

um.. teammates

 

/em dropsmic

/callback

 

You misspelled 'minions'.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, Troo said:

um.. teammates

/em dropsmic

 

Drop stealin bastiches, the lot of them!

[Haijinx]

On 2/20/2021 at 4:38 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

But then you you found incarnates and better slotting and learned that aid self was nothing but a DPS killer. Cuz you smart.

Yes.

 

 

Lulz aidself rofl

 

 

[Nightmarer 2]

Inspirations, active mitigation through primary, set bonuses and unique IO's, a good build... self heals are overrated