Concealment Pool Update: Stealth or Invisibility?

[detour]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:32 PM, Arbegla said:

There is a customization option that lets it make you invisible again.

I would never have known this was an option without your post.  Thanks so much!

[Rathulfr]

13 hours ago, Tarantulas82 said:

Neither as (stealth) can be construed as a number of abilities and (invisibility) is one specific ability. Why not keep it called (concealment)?

 

Concealment is the name of the pool itself, so we probably shouldn't name the power that, also.

 

[Rathulfr]

I don't understand why we needed "Infiltration" instead of "Invisibility": I think that's really the nut of the problem.  We could've just said, "Hey, we buffed Invisibility so that it's also a travel power now!"  That probably would've been sufficient, and avoided all the confusion.

 

[csr]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:41 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Just a heads up the pool is called Concealment 

I typed too fast; I meant the attribute not the pool.  The point is that it's generally not a good idea to use the same name for two things.

Edited April 23, 2021 by csr

[kelika2]

5 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

I don't understand why we needed "Infiltration" instead of "Invisibility": I think that's really the nut of the problem.  We could've just said, "Hey, we buffed Invisibility so that it's also a travel power now!"  That probably would've been sufficient, and avoided all the confusion.

 

?

infiltration is old stealth with run/jump

stealth is old invis with greater stealth radius

[kelika2]

This just in:

 

For the power description(not info) for issue 27 Stealth, it still says you bend light around yourself and uses the word "invisible"

 

Que the "all is lost" moment

 

 

[srmalloy]

Given that, aside from the brief halo effect around my character when I use the new 'Stealth', and get neither the somewhat-transparent effect that the old Stealth had nor the mostly-transparent effect that the old Invisibility had, I'd have to say that neither was really appropriate. With other toggles running, it's hard to tell it's on.

[Wavicle]

I voted for Invis, but I kinda wish I could change my vote...

[Replacement]

8 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

I don't understand why we needed "Infiltration" instead of "Invisibility": I think that's really the nut of the problem.  We could've just said, "Hey, we buffed Invisibility so that it's also a travel power now!"  That probably would've been sufficient, and avoided all the confusion.

 

"Infiltration" is an action, conveys motion. Invisibility is a state, and not at all one people associate with movement.

[Rathulfr]

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

"Infiltration" is an action, conveys motion. Invisibility is a state, and not at all one people associate with movement.

 

Fair point.

 

[vladamir1534]

Stealth is now actually invisibility whereas invisibility/infiltration is now just a new travel power. So it can be very confusing when you think of invisibility and stealth actually being the same now. 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by vladamir1534

[Vanden]

As the guy who is anal about icons, I say it should definitely keep the icon of Invisibility, no matter what it ends up being called.

[Fomsie]

Let's get all fancy, and call it obfuscation. *wiggly fingers*

 

[AlexEquinox]

Invisibility. Stealth is also the name of the in-game mechanic, keeping it as Invis would limit any confusion.

 

[CaptainLupis]

Edit I've changed my mind. That name wouldn't really work.

Edited April 25, 2021 by CaptainLupis

[dtj714]

Look, let’s call a spade a spade - Invisibility was one of the classic, hallmark pool powers in the game, and it’s been screwed up and made confusing in a an attempt to be “creative” and “tweak” more things that, frankly, don’t need any tweaking.

 

You want to make it the first power in the pool?  Ok. You want to let it retain some stealth and defensive bonus?  Ok. But don’t take away it’s core functionality (which is the case currently), and don’t call it something it’s not.  If anything, it should be “Invisibility +” since it’s supposed to be like the old invis with added benefits.

 

Edit: I see now there is a patch making it “invis+” on the Beta server...

Edited April 27, 2021 by dtj714

[ThunderCAP]

Invisibility. I won't repeat the great reasons of who spoke before me, but I will add something for the stealth voters that seem to prefer it for its versatility, cause it's not, it's the less versatile of the two terms.

Being stealthy is a way to reach the state of being invisible, invisibility is the goal for a ninja and doesn't matter if you reach it with cosmic powers (bend light), psionics (control other minds) or with training (being incredibly stealthy), invisibility is the final goal and the one that takes it all.
Invisibility is a word that can be used for ninjas too, stealth instead seems an understatement for whoever already reached the invisibility state, in a way or another, granted or obtained by sweating.

Batman: “Invisibility is a relative thing, Superman. All it takes is practice, and a matchless knowledge of the city.” —John Byrne’s Man Of Steel #3
As we know, Batman doesn't have any superpower and is sort of a ninja, but he is so good that can foul even Superman's senses (he constantly does that). The Invisible Woman (which can count on cosmic power and great training) is still not at the level to foul Superman, cause the cosmic power doesn't help at all against him and hers training is not enough alone.
Being incredibly stealthy as Batman is the greatest invisibility you could ever achieve in fiction, there is no super hearing or telescopic/micro/thermal vision that can detect a person able to use your mind and habits against you (and he doesn't need psychic powers to enter your mind so there is no real counter, the only real one would be to reach his intelligence and training levels).

The power in City of Heroes comes from the old Invisibility, it's not at "stealthy-only" level, it doesn't make you just good at not being detected, it makes you disappear completely (or very close to that), it gives you the same mastery as Batman or (less) the Invisible Woman. So whatever ninja in City of Heroes with that power would actually be so good at being stealthy that he reached the invisibility's state (to not be seen thanks to incredible training, or superhuman abilities).
A simple (human) detective would be stealthy, but not invisible.
A ninja would be invisible and take that power in City of Heroes.
A powered-up person would be invisible (not just stealthy), and so in City of Heroes too.

Edited April 27, 2021 by ThunderCAP

[ThunderCAP]

Now a word about pools in general: the greatest minds or the experienced persons in a specific field (masters) are not common.

That doesn't mine all pools, just public/massive ones.
You don't take a random person to make a game, you take the person that mastered a specific field or a person that made you think he's got a great mind. The more public-pools you do to take decisions, the more errors you will make. It would be different if you only got experts in the pools or you use those only to receive more info/opinions.
In fact pools should give you more info, but never take final decisions directly, that's for leaders or masters (which should also take responsibility for their final decisions because that changes and improves the decision it self).

In this specific case, it's not completely bad cause I'd guess that most players would also be comics experts, and you're asking which word sounds better in a comics environment (superhero game), yet recently I think public-pools are getting overestimated by society so don't do the same error as the majority and be careful about that.

More info: OK
Direct Decisions: NOT OK
Better if experts-only in most cases (not all).

Edited April 27, 2021 by ThunderCAP

[Jimmy]

Closing the poll now - Stealth is the clear winner. Thanks for the input everyone!

[Mortm]

Why couldn't you just make a different power for stealthing to the end of missions? It could be some sort of prestige power.   Instead you screw up the whole balance behind the concealment pool.  Just make all your alts invincible and be done with it.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Mortm

[UberGuy]

5 hours ago, Mortm said:

Just make all your alts invincible and be done with it.

 

What?

[Mortm]

On 5/3/2021 at 10:05 AM, UberGuy said:

 

What?

I'd explain, but unless I'm praising everything these new Devs do, all I'd get is a bunch of people telling me "If you don't like it, don't play".

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, Mortm said:

I'd explain, but unless I'm praising everything these new Devs do, all I'd get is a bunch of people telling me "If you don't like it, don't play".

Constructive criticism is welcome on these forums. This thread, however, may not be the right place to voice your concern since the poll already closed.

[Mortm]

19 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Constructive criticism is welcome on these forums. This thread, however, may not be the right place to voice your concern since the poll already closed.

I know, I clicked on wrong tab on browser. 

[Vanex]

GIMME BACK my Invisibility!!!!!!!!