Determining if the Game is Too Easy

[SaintD]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:54 PM, America's Angel said:

They use WASD and spacebar when fighting. They tend to speed missions.

 

Intermediates are the vast majority of players with IO builds. They don't always play the meta sets. They don't chain inspirations. They don't always use WASD and the spacebar when fighting. They tend to do "kill all" when in missions.

Are you seriously telling me that large numbers of people are playing this game without a WASD setup with their mouse? They must be moving around like a Mark I tank in a swamp.

Completely ignoring anyone complaining about cones ever again in 5...4...3...2...1. Aaaaand they're gone.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

21 hours ago, Tachstar said:

What we really need is more ways to OUTSMART our foes than to simply clobber them.

 

 

Once upon a time find a glowy missions could be beaten without ever fighting a mob if you could find a way to distract mobs from seeing you, they removed that long before stalkers got made. I guess being able to just get the base mish xp without fighting and getting all the sweet mob xp was just too rewarding for those playing stealth centric types and did not need the gratification of mass murdering pixels.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

14 hours ago, SaintD said:

Are you seriously telling me that large numbers of people are playing this game without a WASD setup with their mouse? They must be moving around like a Mark I tank in a swamp.

Completely ignoring anyone complaining about cones ever again in 5...4...3...2...1. Aaaaand they're gone.

I can say I have met more then a few in my time on live that played with one hand and a gamer mouse with enough buttons they could have most keys used by their left hand mapped to their thumb pad. I do that myself when I am feeling more casual on teams or during a MSR etc.

 

It is one of those things that certainly is part of the varied way players play that I suspect leads to disconnects at times in this discussions.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 7/12/2021 at 8:25 PM, Wavicle said:

I know what you're saying, and in a Real World analysis, ESPECIALLY a class analysis, you would be absolutely right.

But in the context of the MCU, they are definitely all heroes.

 

So all those people who died during the blip with no idea of the fate of their loved ones and their suffering is less then nothing next to Tony's need to keep his daughter in existence?

 

I come from a very different view of magic and morality from decades of D&D playing. The King Priest the lawful good ruler of a lawful good empire committed the greatest act of evil in his world by invoking the power of the gods to try and banish all evil from the world, and thus his soul faced the greatest torment ever reserved for a mortal.

 

The greatest hero in all of such fantasy was a man who ritually tortured and killed his entire family whom he truly loved heart and soul, because only such a terrible act and sacrifice could secure him the aid of dark powers strong enough to save his world from an invading force that would consume all life in its entirety.

 

A man who puts keeping his little girl above preventing the suffering of an entire universe, is not ever gonna make HERO in my book. He actually rates as worse than Thanos himself, who actually did make terrible sacrifice for the cause he truly believed was right and just as stupid as it actually was.

 

Just being the one who died does not make Tony a hero, The fact he specifically demanded that the rest submit to his command his daughter and the 5 years of cosmic wide catastrophe must remain because his daughter was a price he would not ever pay, is by the standard of good and evil I adhere to in all things sci fi and fantasy an act of evil so truly vile it is beyond the written language to convey.

[vibal]

It's been brought up in this thread and others like it, but it's worth echoing the opinion that the game has plenty of ways to challenge yourself. The game is lacking reasons to challenge yourself.

 

I'm not sure how that can be implemented without creating the toxic elite teaming that you see in other MMO's though. I love being able to grab a random team and romp. Once you create gates that require "x" powerlevel you'll be creating a different team dynamic.

[PeregrineFalcon]

57 minutes ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

A man who puts keeping his little girl above preventing the suffering of an entire universe, is not ever gonna make HERO in my book.

Speaking as a father of two beautiful children. I would cheerfully kill millions to protect my children.

 

You're right, Tony Stark's no hero. You know what he is? Dad.

[roleki]

26 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Speaking as a father of two beautiful children. I would cheerfully kill millions to protect my children.

 

You're right, Tony Stark's no hero. You know what he is? Dad.

 

It's all fun & games until those millions you'd kill to protect your children also have dads willing to kill millions to protect THEIR children, and so on.  

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

Just being the one who died does not make Tony a hero, The fact he specifically demanded that the rest submit to his command his daughter and the 5 years of cosmic wide catastrophe must remain because his daughter was a price he would not ever pay, is by the standard of good and evil I adhere to in all things sci fi and fantasy an act of evil so truly vile it is beyond the written language to convey.

 

I would like to explore that a bit, shall we?

 

1. If Ultron was Tony's biological flesh and blood child, and still committed the great crimes that he did, would you still hold Tony morally and criminally responsible?

 

2. I think the majority of parents out there would do the same for the sake of their child. That's instinct at work. There is a very large difference between accepting things, and being the offending person who made them. You are making it out to be Tony was the one who did the snap, when it wasn't. While he didn't magically erase what Thanos did either, do we even know that is an option? It might be possible in the comics, but not possible in the film version MCU. A great many lesser things were changed or omitted. You aren't holding Tony accountable for something that he "did", you are holding him responsible for something that he "didn't" do, which are not the same things.

 

3. With #2 in mind, it is a very small step from holding people accountable for what they "might" have done, to what they "might" do. I know some comics explored this sort of narrative, but to my mind it comes down to the Batman vs Superman argument - he "could" become the most challenging evil threat. He isn't now, but he "could" one day be. Is that enough to justify treating him as such? I would argue no. It isn't. Just as its not acceptable to hold people accountable for passive inaction either.

 

An example: You see a charity on Television. You then decide not to donate to whichever cause. By your passiveness, you "allowed" people to suffer. You didn't cause it. You had no part in it. But you didn't help either. Are you now complicit? I would argue not. 

 

We both agree Tony isn't "Lawful Good" by any stretch. But not all heroes are "Lawful Good" either. Tony is a Chaotic Neutral to my mind. And that doesn't make him Lawful Evil, which what I believe Thanos was.

 

TLDR: Making the best of bad situations, or accepting things that have occurred, are not evil acts. Particularly when you had nothing to do with the original root cause. And protecting your child by any means possible, isn't evil either. Even if by protecting your child, other people might suffer. You aren't responsible for them. No one is responsible for the entire world.

 

Just my thoughts on it.

[Monos King]

[Mina]

I must say this entire discussion made me laugh. I have only been back a few weeks, so I actually have a limited knowledge of game functions. But most people seem to use a computer program to create a super toon maxed out by the numbers. Park said toon in a farm to get to 50 and collect influence. Load in those incarnate powers, then Team up for lower level TFs they skipped earlier, that turn into a demonstration of how super their toon can perform, while the rest of the team dies repeatedly. AND THEN complain the game is too easy. lolololol

Just makes me think that so many people are looking for an audience and not a team. 

 

[Monos King]

31 minutes ago, Mina said:

AND THEN complain the game is too easy. lolololol

Just makes me think that so many people are looking for an audience and not a team. 

That isn't quite the scenario that is being discussed here. I can find some quotes to bring you up to speed if you're interested, as I imagine you haven't in fact read "the entire discussion".

 

Though this thread is now a discussion of iron man's morality and the meaning of being a hero so maybe that'll have to wait.

[Mina]

3 minutes ago, Monos King said:

That isn't quite the scenario that is being discussed here. I can find some quotes to bring you up to speed if you're interested, as I imagine you haven't in fact read "the entire discussion".

 

Though this thread is now a discussion of iron man's morality and the meaning of being a hero so maybe that'll have to wait.

I don't think I was clear enough that I am laughing at me, not at the original poster. Just so I understand, on this forum, once a topic is hijacked, no return to original topic?

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, Mina said:

Just so I understand, on this forum, once a topic is hijacked, no return to original topic?

Oh that's just a joke your comment is very much valid lol

 

We are certainly very and unavoidably powerful once we're maxed out, and it would be silly to call content universally easy once we're at the precipice of power. There are just some other conspicuous factors, like how we got there.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Monos King

[America's Angel]

22 hours ago, SaintD said:

Are you seriously telling me that large numbers of people are playing this game without a WASD setup with their mouse? They must be moving around like a Mark I tank in a swamp.

Completely ignoring anyone complaining about cones ever again in 5...4...3...2...1. Aaaaand they're gone.

 

Most players tend to stand still when fighting enemies. It's rare to see people use combat jumping + WASD to joust all over the place in PvE.

Edited July 15, 2021 by America's Angel

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Most players tend to stand still when fighting enemies. It's rare to see people use combat jumping + WASD to joust all over the place in PvE.

I play left hand on WASD, right hand on mouse. I always thought that was the norm.

 

Also, I usually do jump over the enemies and then attack them, this way their cones are facing away from the rest of my team. Then again, I usually play a tank.

 

You're right though. I seldom move much more than that unless I'm trying to set up my own cones, or on my blaster trying to get away from an enemy that's determined to get into melee range with me.

[Wavicle]

10 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

 

So all those people who died during the blip with no idea of the fate of their loved ones and their suffering is less then nothing next to Tony's need to keep his daughter in existence?

 

I come from a very different view of magic and morality from decades of D&D playing. The King Priest the lawful good ruler of a lawful good empire committed the greatest act of evil in his world by invoking the power of the gods to try and banish all evil from the world, and thus his soul faced the greatest torment ever reserved for a mortal.

 

The greatest hero in all of such fantasy was a man who ritually tortured and killed his entire family whom he truly loved heart and soul, because only such a terrible act and sacrifice could secure him the aid of dark powers strong enough to save his world from an invading force that would consume all life in its entirety.

 

A man who puts keeping his little girl above preventing the suffering of an entire universe, is not ever gonna make HERO in my book. He actually rates as worse than Thanos himself, who actually did make terrible sacrifice for the cause he truly believed was right and just as stupid as it actually was.

 

Just being the one who died does not make Tony a hero, The fact he specifically demanded that the rest submit to his command his daughter and the 5 years of cosmic wide catastrophe must remain because his daughter was a price he would not ever pay, is by the standard of good and evil I adhere to in all things sci fi and fantasy an act of evil so truly vile it is beyond the written language to convey.

 

Hulk brought back everyone who died in the Blip. Now I don't even know what you're talking about.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Wavicle

[Herotu]

I don't want more difficult fights, I want more interesting fights. They can be easier, if that makes them more interesting!

 

That's why I like runners so much - you don't see them in many (any?) other games. 

 

Difficult != Interesting

 

[Lockpick]

On 7/11/2021 at 11:52 PM, Mopery said:

Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled.

 

Whut?

 

Huh?

 

 

Edit: I guess no one found @Mopery as funny as I did or just didn't catch the reference.  Anyway, for those not aware:

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Lockpick
Added link

[Ghost]

If Stark is not a hero because of Ultron, why do you consider Batman to be a hero?

Is he not ultimately responsible for OMACs? 

 

Most heroes are flawed.  They make mistakes.  Sometimes ego gets in the way.

That's what makes them human.  

What makes them a hero is that they willingly charge into battle, and do what is needed in order to insure the safety of everyone else. 

[Brutal Justice]

When do we talk about how Scarlet Witch should be in prison?  Is it before or after we talk about a 40% defense hard cap?

[Apparition]

13 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

When do we talk about how Scarlet Witch should be in prison?  Is it before or after we talk about a 40% defense hard cap?

 

 

 

[Without_Pause]

News at 11. Players of a superhero game complain about the game making them feel too much like (checks notes) superheroes. How dare they. How. Dare. They.

 

Not every game needs to be Dark Souls or rouge like. Some games can be nice, light, and fun romps. Some can be family friendly enough to where parents will let their kids play and maybe even with them. Yes, a nice light romp the whole family can enjoy. That to me what CoH has been about. There have always been the min-maxers. There's content for them. An end game where you finally completed a character was always going to happen. Want to keep playing them? Great. You can. Want to move onto something else be it a new character or even game? Great. You can also do that. The biggest need right now is Incarnate content. That's it.

[Yomo Kimyata]

22 hours ago, Mina said:

Just so I understand, on this forum, once a topic is hijacked, no return to original topic?

 

Purple monkey dishwasher.

[Coyotedancer]

43 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Purple monkey dishwasher.

 

Boats on banana paper.

 

 

(What? I love the messed-up portal scientists missions. 😝 ) 

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Purple monkey dishwasher.

Which one?

 

This:

 

Or this: