Another nail in the Brute coffin

[The_Warpact]

So did any of you nerds put the Broot ATO proc in the Suggestions thread yet?

 

Yeah you didn't, quit playing Revenge of the Nerds, Revenge of the Nerds Part 2 Nerd Wars, and Revenge of the Nerds Part 3 They finally get laid.

While those aren't the actual titles, that's how I remember them.

 

So Lewis, Booger, and Ogre get to work. There's a shiny new pocket protector in it for ya!

[Infinitum]

15 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

So did any of you nerds put the Broot ATO proc in the Suggestions thread yet?

 

Yeah you didn't, quit playing Revenge of the Nerds, Revenge of the Nerds Part 2 Nerd Wars, and Revenge of the Nerds Part 3 They finally get laid.

While those aren't the actual titles, that's how I remember them.

 

So Lewis, Booger, and Ogre get to work. There's a shiny new pocket protector in it for ya!

 

I nominate @Sovera for being the most level headed through and through.

 

And for having the cute kitten pic as an avatar (I love cats) mine is part maine koon and a big lovable furball.

[PeregrineFalcon]

26 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

So did any of you nerds put the Broot ATO proc in the Suggestions thread yet?

Yeah, cause that's a great way to ensure that the devs will never fix it.

 

Tell me I'm wrong.

[The_Warpact]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yeah, cause that's a great way to ensure that the devs will never fix it.

 

Tell me I'm wrong.

I figure it goes 29 pages of screaming forum Savages some forum pvp and finally gets thread locked they will definitely notice.😉

[Gobbledigook]

At least this thread got one of the developers attention lol. Maybe they will pass the idea's on.

[FUBARczar]

13 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Would neutering the ATO procs of the other melee classes help?  I don't know about you all, but I'd use Brute ATOs even if the proc was "chance for light rain."  But if attitudes would turn around, I'd be happy to support cutting the values of other ATO procs, especially tankers.  I have no idea why anyone thought buffing tankers was the right thing to do, but clearly someone on the HC development team is married to a PvP tanker.

 

Or is it a "lol unplayable" situation much like squishies get max resist with two or three powers and it is terribly unfair that every melee class has to use five or six powers?

Maybe they knew that Relentless Aeon and invincible ITF would be a thing...  Hmmm, I wonder 🤔...

 

Besides the tanker ATO isn't all that.  Not really.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, FUBARczar said:

Maybe they knew that Relentless Aeon and invincible ITF would be a thing...  Hmmm, I wonder 🤔...

 

Besides the tanker ATO isn't all that.  Not really.

 

I feel it kinda is though. In a world without IOs I feel that paradoxically they would be a simple boost, but in the world where IOs exist they allow to completely shuffle slotting in a whole build because at least 13% are accounted for, 18% if accounting for Barrier. The full three stacks are not reliable so I won't mentioned them.

 

That's a myriad slotting choices shifting from seeking resistance to seeking... whatever, Procs, or utility, or defence.

 

 

Most of my resistance tanks slot for 71%-ish resistances instead of 90%. Two stacks are 13.4% and that 71% becomes 84.4% (then I account for Barrier's 5%).

 

Slotting for 71% instead of 90% (or 85% if using Barrier) makes a big difference when squeezing the last % of the resistances which is when we enter the realm where sacrifices start.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Sovera

[FUBARczar]

16 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

I feel it kinda is though. In a world without IOs I feel that paradoxically they would be a simple boost, but in the world where IOs exist they allow to completely shuffle slotting in a whole build because at least 13% are accounted for, 18% if accounting for Barrier. The full three stacks are not reliable so I won't mentioned them.

 

That's a myriad slotting choices shifting from seeking resistance to seeking... whatever, Procs, or utility, or defence.

 

 

Most of my resistance tanks slot for 71%-ish resistances instead of 90%. Two stacks are 13.4% and that 71% becomes 84.4% (then I account for Barrier's 5%).

 

Slotting for 71% instead of 90% (or 85% if using Barrier) makes a big difference when squeezing the last % of the resistances which is when we enter the realm where sacrifices start.

 

It has some impact on slotting sure, but it all too often becomes a moot point, especially on Resist based tanks and on teams with a Nature, Sonic, Pain, Therm, etc.  or when they activate their T9's.   Defense based tanks  still generally need to chase +resist.

 

I think that it is a bad ATO, design-wise.  It's also not as powerful and universally useful to all powersets as say ATOs for Stalkers, Scrappers, and so on.  

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, FUBARczar said:

It has some impact on slotting sure, but it all too often becomes a moot point, especially on Resist based tanks and on teams with a Nature, Sonic, Pain, Therm, etc.  or when they activate their T9's.   Defense based tanks  still generally need to chase +resist.

 

I think that it is a bad ATO, design-wise.  It's also not as powerful and universally useful to all powersets as say ATOs for Stalkers, Scrappers, and so on.  

 

 

I see what you are saying, but I disagree slightly. The Tanker ATO really makes a difference on other damage types when you are a set that normally can't reach the cap easily - like en/neg, f/c on an invul - and others that build the same way.

 

Is there another way to do it better perhaps? Maybe but I am satisfied with how it currently is.  The Brute ATO - not so much.

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

but I'd use Brute ATOs even if the proc was "chance for light rain."

 

Does that do PBAoE Energy Damage?

[Seed22]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:06 PM, Krimson said:

If we're going to be devoid of compassion, might as well double down. No sense in any pretense of a friendly community, right?

The forums isnt the game though. The game community is wonderful usually. The forums are the worst of the community usually, minus a few specific sub threads. It’s ALWAYS been a shit show, it’s just P4 makes some of the folks here more vocal is all

[Yomo Kimyata]

36 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Does that do PBAoE Energy Damage?

 

No.  Because then Corruptor fans would be all NO FARE WE SHOULD HAVE RAIN POWAH!

[tidge]

Brute ATO rework can get in line behind other ATOs.

[Astralock]

5 minutes ago, tidge said:

Brute ATO rework can get in line behind other ATOs.

Yeah, Scrapper’s Critical Strikes really could use a nerf.

[Vanden]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:34 PM, tidge said:

Brute ATO rework can get in line behind other ATOs.

 

The Brute's Fury proc might be garbo now, but the Unrelenting Fury proc is absolutely amazing. That end discount, with such a high proc rate, is absolutely game-changing. I'd honestly consider it as AT-defining as the Scrapper procs. Slot UF's proc and Brutes basically don't run out of endurance any more. And you know what else that means? More room for Power Transfer procs.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Vanden

[Snarky]

19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

The Brute's Fury proc might be garbo now, but the Unrelenting Fury proc is absolutely amazing. That end discount, with such a high proc rate, is absolutely game-changing. I'd honestly consider it as AT-defining as the Scrapper procs. Slot UF's proc and Brutes basically don't run out of endurance any more. And you know what else that means? More room for Power Transfer procs.

It may be good.  But Pfffft.  I run Dark Armor, a notoriously end hungry set, with no issues.  But yes, a good ATO is better than the hot garbage of the other.  Would be nice if the cornerstone piece in each ATO set did something more than mule a slot bonus.

[PLVRIZR]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:04 PM, Krimson said:

Nope. Tankers get all the love they need from the players who play them.

^--this.  Why 90% of my 50s are tanks.

[Sovera]

10 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

The Brute's Fury proc might be garbo now, but the Unrelenting Fury proc is absolutely amazing. That end discount, with such a high proc rate, is absolutely game-changing. I'd honestly consider it as AT-defining as the Scrapper procs. Slot UF's proc and Brutes basically don't run out of endurance any more. And you know what else that means? More room for Power Transfer procs.

 

Not my experience. Be mindful you'd not be running on placebo. I ran tests seeing how often I could proc it and keep it procced and at most 14%ish would be up during a pylon fight having little impact in the end.

 

Of course CoH is a game of little things adding to an end result, so 14%ish discount, then Stamina, then accolades, then end discount on powers, and at some point the balance shifts as things are added.

 

That and I think we can agree 100% regen from a full stack of the proc is not whelming at all.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sovera

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 hours ago, Sovera said:

Not my experience.

 

Nor mine. The fury generation is taken care of with my attack chain. The +regen/recovery is dealt with through proper slotting. Compared to the scrapper/tank ATIOs, the brute's are downright complete crap.

 

And, yes, I bounce between 2 and 3 stacks of the tank ATIO +damres thanks to my attack chains as well. That just makes it worse.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Snarky]

18 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Nor mine. The fury generation is taken care of with my attack chain. The +regen/recovery is dealt with through proper slotting. Compared to the scrapper/tank ATIOs, the brute's are downright complete crap.

 

And, yes, I bounce between 2 and 3 stacks of the tank ATIO +damres thanks to my attack chains as well. That just makes it worse.

Whoever made up the Brute ATO probably ran Blasters.  On the surface it sounds good.  Possibly great.  Unless you understand Brutes and then you are like wtf?  Not a catastrophic failure.  More like unqualified mediocrity.

[Erratic1]

I would guess in the day of faster decay the proc might have helped sustain higher fury?

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I would guess in the day of faster decay the proc might have helped sustain higher fury?

Except it did not exist in that generation of the game.  Fury was nerfed long ago, ATOs are relatively recent

[FUBARczar]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:23 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Nor mine. The fury generation is taken care of with my attack chain. The +regen/recovery is dealt with through proper slotting. Compared to the scrapper/tank ATIOs, the brute's are downright complete crap.

 

And, yes, I bounce between 2 and 3 stacks of the tank ATIO +damres thanks to my attack chains as well. That just makes it worse.

Yeah the Brutes ATO went to tanks 😳

[Infinitum]

5 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Yeah the Brutes ATO went to tanks 😳

 

If brutes had gotten that ATO there would have been 0 reasons to play tankers as a result.

 

Now Brute's need an equally useful ATO and call it a day.

 

I would probably have one that procs defense and one that procs resistance in some creative way - and maybe even tie current fury/health/dmg to it also 

[Gobbledigook]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

If brutes had gotten that ATO there would have been 0 reasons to play tankers as a result.

 

Now Brute's need an equally useful ATO and call it a day.

 

I would probably have one that procs defense and one that procs resistance in some creative way - and maybe even tie current fury/health/dmg to it also 

I think we should all get behind that and then see how the Brutes fare. Someone should make a request.