Focused Feedback: Fiery Aura Revamp

[SomeGuy]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:01 AM, Sanguinesun said:

Cant call something a bug when it was something that devs knew about and accepted for many years since the days of it running on live means that's more or less what you call intended.  Spinning it(and other changes) otherwise like a certain segment of people in various threads are trying to do doesn't change that.  

 

 

*stares at Rage* lol This logic isn't shared with everyone.

 

On topic: did i miss the intended changes to Burn after the roll back? I just did a few runs in a ST scenario with it in the current state and didn't notice anything to cry about my my EM/FA/SOUL Brute.

 

Is Mag1 KB protection even worth it in Temp Protection or do we still need to slot for at least 4? I haven't looked at the minimum for it in a while. I was always "4 or 12" sort of guy. I've ALWAYS been really annoyed at the KB hole in FA. Having to take Acrobatics pre Inventions was such a waste. It's only slightly better now.

 

I do have to agree with @Sovera. If Burn gets nuked from orbit it makes the set dead in the water. The set is INCREDIBLY squishy on anything but a Tanker and it's offensive output is it's one main draw. Fiery Embrace is absolutely not enough to make up for that.

Edited October 11, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Black Zot]

36 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Is Mag1 KB protection even worth it in Temp Protection or do we still need to slot for at least 4?

 

Mag 1 protection stops knockdown effects and that's all.  Anything that was actually going to toss you before still will.

[BrandX]

11 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

*stares at Rage* lol This logic isn't shared with everyone.

 

On topic: did i miss the intended changes to Burn after the roll back? I just did a few runs in a ST scenario with it in the current state and didn't notice anything to cry about my my EM/FA/SOUL Brute.

 

Is Mag1 KB protection even worth it in Temp Protection or do we still need to slot for at least 4? I haven't looked at the minimum for it in a while. I was always "4 or 12" sort of guy. I've ALWAYS been really annoyed at the KB hole in FA. Having to take Acrobatics pre Inventions was such a waste. It's only slightly better now.

 

I do have to agree with @Sovera. If Burn gets nuked from orbit it makes the set dead in the water. The set is INCREDIBLY squishy on anything but a Tanker and it's offensive output is it's one main draw. Fiery Embrace is absolutely not enough to make up for that.

 

My Tanker has Mag 3 x2 from 4 set bonus of Gladiator's Armor and Mag 4 from Steadfast Protection and still get knocked back every now and again.  Not ping ponged, but still...and those CoT and the like knock powers can get mean sometimes, so one more mag may help 🙂

 

Agree on the last statement.  Though, I hope my Brute will feel tougher with the +HP aspect, which I believe will put my Brute up to my Tankers current live HP level.

[QuiJon]

19 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

Is Mag1 KB protection even worth it in Temp Protection or do we still need to slot for at least 4? I haven't looked at the minimum for it in a while. I was always "4 or 12" sort of guy. I've ALWAYS been really annoyed at the KB hole in FA. Having to take Acrobatics pre Inventions was such a waste. It's only slightly better now.

Yeah if it is perfectly acceptable level of protection then why are all the sets at mag 8 that have protection? Seems like if you want to patch that hole then minimum would be mag 4 and then we can easily hit an 8 with an IO if we want to. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

Mag 1 KB will stop any Knockdown that is not high magnitude and vector based.

Knockbacks will still go through, they are not exactly uncommon, but they are not seen as regularly as knockdowns.

[WindDemon21]

33 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Mag 1 KB will stop any Knockdown that is not high magnitude and vector based.

Knockbacks will still go through, they are not exactly uncommon, but they are not seen as regularly as knockdowns.

Or stacking like getting multiple earthquakes on you etc. I think a big point here, is that, I wouldn't consider even .00001% chance that fire/dark/elec armor having kb protection would go anywhere near making them even the slightest bit OP from their current form. Just negates some annoyance but that's it, certainly nothing to keep fearing of making the sets OP.

 

That said, PLEASE still fix all versions of consume per my post earlier. 3 minutes base is ridiculous dumb. Should be 60s and extend the recovery to be more on the first target and last at least 30s (with the 60s base rech) Every other similar power is 60, and is autohit to boot. The pitiful damage that consume does does not need to factor into ruining it's base use for end gain. (and the end/-rec resistance, those other sets get that too so I don't want to hear anyone try to argue that)

[Sovera]

29 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Or stacking like getting multiple earthquakes on you etc. I think a big point here, is that, I wouldn't consider even .00001% chance that fire/dark/elec armor having kb protection would go anywhere near making them even the slightest bit OP from their current form. Just negates some annoyance but that's it, certainly nothing to keep fearing of making the sets OP.

 

That said, PLEASE still fix all versions of consume per my post earlier. 3 minutes base is ridiculous dumb. Should be 60s and extend the recovery to be more on the first target and last at least 30s (with the 60s base rech) Every other similar power is 60, and is autohit to boot. The pitiful damage that consume does does not need to factor into ruining it's base use for end gain. (and the end/-rec resistance, those other sets get that too so I don't want to hear anyone try to argue that)

 

 

Take it with a grain of salt because you should, but I happened to be testing this at the same time. Musculature 33% coupled with accolades and Consume made my blue bar hold for the duration of pylon testing (average of 5 minutes beating up something).

 

I did turn off Focused Accuracy though both both MA and Axe made it through. In the past this would work until the 5% miss chance crept up and messed the cycle, but that is no longer the case.

 

 

I'm not downplaying your concerns or testing though, just reporting what I got.

 

(And yes, I never say no to more buffs)

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Sovera

[QuiJon]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Or stacking like getting multiple earthquakes on you etc. I think a big point here, is that, I wouldn't consider even .00001% chance that fire/dark/elec armor having kb protection would go anywhere near making them even the slightest bit OP from their current form. Just negates some annoyance but that's it, certainly nothing to keep fearing of making the sets OP.

 

That said, PLEASE still fix all versions of consume per my post earlier. 3 minutes base is ridiculous dumb. Should be 60s and extend the recovery to be more on the first target and last at least 30s (with the 60s base rech) Every other similar power is 60, and is autohit to boot. The pitiful damage that consume does does not need to factor into ruining it's base use for end gain. (and the end/-rec resistance, those other sets get that too so I don't want to hear anyone try to argue that)

But actually the three armor sets you mention actually are more susceptible to knockdown because a decent part of their mitigation is based on clicking a self heal. Something that being knocked down prevents you from doing.

[WindDemon21]

12 hours ago, QuiJon said:

But actually the three armor sets you mention actually are more susceptible to knockdown because a decent part of their mitigation is based on clicking a self heal. Something that being knocked down prevents you from doing.

Exactly even more reason they should have more kb protection than most. Wish while they're at it they'd finally fix the energizes down to 60s base rech as well. 2 minutes is and has always been too long for them esp with the buffs lasting only 30s. Takes everything in the build to get close to perma-ing them and the heal/regen values still aren't that superior.

[Sovera]

Re-tested after the bug fix to Burn.

 

- 4:46 on a pylon.

-4:46 on a pylon (yes, again, on the dot)

 

 

On live:

- 4:56

- 4:37

- 4:55

- 4:34

 

 

Looks like ST has been tweaked back to how it is on live even with the procs no longer firing multiple times.

 

 

Trapdoor test:

 

- 5:35

- 6:12

 

 

Times on live: 6 minutes.

 

AoE is still the same as on live as well.

 

 

This was tested on a Fire/MA Tanker.

[SomeGuy]

I put in some ST time with my EM/FA/SOUL brute and went from 1:50 to 2:10. Outside of it being measured, you won't notice.

 

AOE? I did a good bit of time with normal missions and didn't notice anything. Granted, my playstyle with FA doesn't take advantage of the new changes

[Zect]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, Sanguinesun said:

Cant call something a bug when it was something that devs knew about and accepted for many years since the days of it running on live means that's more or less what you call intended.  Spinning it(and other changes) otherwise like a certain segment of people in various threads are trying to do doesn't change that.  

 

Do you also think that other aspects of burn (like hitting 4 targets even when the power description clearly says 5) were intended, simply because they were "known and accepted" for many years? If not, then your selective reading of the facts reveals your clear bias. Devs are often reluctant to make beneficial, necessary changes for fear of upsetting the playerbase, especially when that playerbase pays fees and generates negative press that upper management and investors are highly sensitive to.

 

Regardless, a semantics argument seems silly. Bugged or not, one thing we can all agree on is the fact that the proc rate of burn was too high and needed to be lowered to something more reasonable. As for me, there is no spin here - merely a hope for a game that is enjoyable by all, rather than a select few players.

[flakoff]

3 hours ago, Zect said:

 

Do you also think that other aspects of burn (like hitting 4 targets even when the power description clearly says 5) were intended, simply because they were "known and accepted" for many years? If not, then your selective reading of the facts reveals your clear bias. Devs are often reluctant to make beneficial, necessary changes for fear of upsetting the playerbase, especially when that playerbase pays fees and generates negative press that upper management and investors are highly sensitive to.

 

Regardless, a semantics argument seems silly. Bugged or not, one thing we can all agree on is the fact that the proc rate of burn was too high and needed to be lowered to something more reasonable. As for me, there is no spin here - merely a hope for a game that is enjoyable by all, rather than a select few players.

It's totally stupid how you drop a burn patch and are surrounded by mobs but only 4 get affected yet you do a whirling mace and it's hitting more. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by flakoff

[Troo]

24 minutes ago, flakoff said:

It's totally stupid how you drop a burn patch and are surrounded by mobs but only 4 get affected yet you do a whirling mace and it's hitting more. 

 

Hey you're not wrong. Though it's also stupid thy stand in the Burn patch and don't run out of it. I do like that they roast rather than run,

[BrandX]

So, Burn has been the big talk, but I'm curious how the +HP is helping out the Scrappers and Brutes?

 

My Tanker does pretty well with capped resists and recharge on Tanker health.  With the Consume change, I'd think the Brute would survive like my Tanker, if the Brute can get those Resists up.  The Scrapper though, is still maxing out at 75% even with more HP.

[Sovera]

42 minutes ago, BrandX said:

So, Burn has been the big talk, but I'm curious how the +HP is helping out the Scrappers and Brutes?

 

My Tanker does pretty well with capped resists and recharge on Tanker health.  With the Consume change, I'd think the Brute would survive like my Tanker, if the Brute can get those Resists up.  The Scrapper though, is still maxing out at 75% even with more HP.

 

Speaking as a Tanker at least for slotting it remains counterintuitive but Powerhouse will bring out his spreadsheets if +max HP was added to a heal.

 

In terms of slotting I only lose 6.5% recharge, 10% slow resist and 1% E/N resist with frankenslotting Consume to have both endurance and heal stats. Probably worth it since when I just slotted 5 Panaceia my Tanker went up to 3.1k HP.

 

It still would have made more sense to keep the endurance clickie slotted for endurance and the heal clickie slotted for heals.

[Arcadio]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

So, Burn has been the big talk, but I'm curious how the +HP is helping out the Scrappers and Brutes?

 

My Tanker does pretty well with capped resists and recharge on Tanker health.  With the Consume change, I'd think the Brute would survive like my Tanker, if the Brute can get those Resists up.  The Scrapper though, is still maxing out at 75% even with more HP.

For my sentinel at least the added regen with +HP (and extra damage) has been noticeable for my survivability.

[Cutter]

15 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

For my sentinel at least the added regen with +HP (and extra damage) has been noticeable for my survivability.

I commented this in the Sentinel rework thread but will add here as well: my 50 DP/Fire saw ~180 HP increase from consume, with no change to my slotting from live. It looks easy enough to make permanent, and doing the frankenslot thing for both heal and end would seem to be a good idea. I can't say I would complain about it.

[BrandX]

23 hours ago, Sovera said:

Re-tested after the bug fix to Burn.

 

- 4:46 on a pylon.

-4:46 on a pylon (yes, again, on the dot)

 

 

On live:

- 4:56

- 4:37

- 4:55

- 4:34

 

 

Looks like ST has been tweaked back to how it is on live even with the procs no longer firing multiple times.

 

 

Trapdoor test:

 

- 5:35

- 6:12

 

 

Times on live: 6 minutes.

 

AoE is still the same as on live as well.

 

 

This was tested on a Fire/MA Tanker.

 

For me, this makes me feel like all is well.  My Fire/Axe Tanker only has two procs in it though.  Not sure how often the Lethal Procs on Live, but the Knockdown I don't recall ever feeling like it procc'ed more than once.  Brute has two as well, but it's the Purple Damage and a Lethal Proc.

 

As long as it still works as a ST attack, all good for me.  I know it's still a good AOE attack even if it's not as good as it may have been, but that seems to maybe have been an issue with how they proc (whether it's bug or feature, not going to worry).

 

I just hope the buffs help the Fire Armor Scrappers, in terms of survival, noticably.

 

 

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

For me, this makes me feel like all is well.  My Fire/Axe Tanker only has two procs in it though.  Not sure how often the Lethal Procs on Live, but the Knockdown I don't recall ever feeling like it procc'ed more than once.  Brute has two as well, but it's the Purple Damage and a Lethal Proc.

 

As long as it still works as a ST attack, all good for me.  I know it's still a good AOE attack even if it's not as good as it may have been, but that seems to maybe have been an issue with how they proc (whether it's bug or feature, not going to worry).

 

I just hope the buffs help the Fire Armor Scrappers, in terms of survival, noticably.

I tested both a Fire/Axe and a Stone/Axe.

Spoiler

The Stone version is just a smidgen behind Fire in both pylon and trapdoor which is a bit odd considering how Stone is -also- a bastion compared to squishy Fire, though it does lack the heal and anything that eats defense will chew though the 51% DDR where Fire will survive it better, but for anything else Stone will just shrug it off.

 

I'm a tad conflicted about this but will run a few more tests to see if the times even out or if Stone really is behind by just 15%-ish percent.

 

Though I don't have Mids with numbers yet I did replace Chop with Burn when Burn was up. Also replaced Chop with Hasten if it was up, Build-up, Fiery Embrace, Consume if endurance was down. Chop is the weak link and needed when none of the above are available or just endure the gap.

 

With the Stone version this plays better since Chop gets a much better slotting and the extra recharge tightens up things.

[arcane]

So is there a new consensus on best way to slot Burn? For a farmer. Damage set now or are procs still somewhat effective?

[Ratch_]

20 minutes ago, arcane said:

So is there a new consensus on best way to slot Burn? For a farmer. Damage set now or are procs still somewhat effective?

Probably still depends on AT, rules still apply with lower damage scale ATs wanting procs more than dmg enhance...but for blaster and scrapper I'm seeing best damage with:

arma dmg+5, arma fireProc, FoTG proc, 3 other dmg procs. (though I switch one of those out for an ACC/DAM personally since my build doesn't have enough toHit as is)

[agentx5]

On 10/4/2022 at 5:37 PM, The Curator said:

Fiery Aura

Rise of the Phoenix (now Phoenix Rising)

• Renamed Phoenix Rising.
• This power can now be used when alive.
• The effects of this power (damage, healing, endurance) will be stronger the closer the user is to death.
• The player power can't be used if the player has more than 75% health.
• The power will only make the player invulnerable and grant XP protection if the power is used after death.
• Damage increased when used while dead, relative to Live.

Burn

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Up-Front damage radius increased to 15ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time lowered from 2.03s to 1.47s
• Recharge increased from 25s to 45s

Consume

• Power now grants a small Max HP buff even if no targets are available or hit.
• Power no longer needs a target to grant End Drain protection. (+End still requires targets)
• Power no longer claims it is auto-hit.
• This power now takes Healing sets and enhancements.

Temperature Protection

• This power now grants Mag 1 Knock protection in PvE. (This is strong enough to prevent most knockdowns and some weak knockback).
• This power now grants unenhanceable +regeneration.

Healing Flames

• Cast Time lowered from 1.5 seconds to 0.73 seconds.

 

 

So here's my thoughts on these after testing across a week.  I'm going to be brutally honest here

 

Phoenix Rising --> Phoenix

 

1. Just name it "Phoenix", simpler is better.  Everyone knows a Hallmark of a phoenix is "rising from the ashes". If you're going to say Rising, then you need a Falling as well, which would be dumb.  Just remove the unnecessary word

2. It's still a very underwhelming power that people are going to skip.  It needs at minimum a far shorter cooldown/recharge to where it could act like a Build Up or Aim or some kind of clutch self-heal, and that would actually make people like it and use it more.   The buff numbers are also too low, they need to be bumped up a bit more.

3. I do like how it can be used while alive, and that it's more useful as HP gets lower.  That's fun and can be useful.  Great idea!

4. This is a very cool power that needs to be a cool bounce-back for when you're on the ropes and the enemy is kicking your butt.  It needs to be a worthy tide-turner. A shift in the fulcrum of the battle. However you want to say that. #disappointing

 

Burn:

 

1. I have friends who absolutely love farming, and even I have to admit this nerd was not unexpected as it was quite OP for years. Stackable burn patches and better proc'ing potential for additional damage than most nuke T9 AoEs... Yeah something had to give.  Brutes while good with damage, were probably never intended to be OP +600% bonus damage machines of farming epicness.  I have a level 50+ TitanWeapons/FireAura brute character, so yes this does affect me too.  He's what I used to test this out.

2.  Burn and Consume should have some sort of synergy combo mechanic that gives additional damage, even if it's DoT.

3.  Burn should ignite things and do most of it's damage via rather-long lasting DoT.  Keep the current damage comparable to Page3 Live but have it do things like -DEF and rather long DoT.  Enemies should burn to death, albeit more slowly.  More damage, spread out over time.  Damage applied as a debuff, rather than just because they stand in the stationary AoE patch.

 

Consume:

 

1. Good changes, but still needs shorter cooldown

2. I wish it did a little more damage, when combined with Burn.  Those two need a synergy that would make it logical and beneficial to get both

3. +END would be good if there was also a +Recovery% bonus per stack based on enemies hit as well

4. Increase the target cap?

5. Thank you for being able to slow heal enhancements!

 

Temperature protection:

 

1. Mag 2 please, not Mag 1 protection.

2. Regeneration needs to scale better proprotional to current character level, a static unenhanceable number is barely noticeable in incarnate-level play.

 

Healing Flames:

 

1. Recharge time needs to be reduced slightly

2. Healing done needs to be increased slightly

[Arcadio]

I do wish Phoenix Rising was a little more impactful too. As it stands, the heal is pretty underwhelming in most cases, especially when you can hardly cast it at low life because of the animation time. And a 300 second CD is far too long for an ability with no lasting effect. Maybe if it gave 60 seconds of some damage buff 300 seconds might be fine, but as is now I still see it as kind of a gimmick power pick.

[darkgob]

Why change the name for Rise of the Phoenix?  And I agree with a previous poster, Phoenix Rising as a power name is just clunky.  If it must be changed, just change it to Phoenix and be done with it, although I personally don't see why it should change at all.