The On Hold thread

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

You're both pretty.

[Troo]

you're right, it is subjective.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Troo
adding a wink here ;)

[Troo]

I am going to thank @Ukase and others here for looking out for a fellow forumite.

 

Their concern was not misplaced. I have had five or six posts harshly moderated in less than a week.

 

We are also now down one long time contributor due in part to over moderation in the same time period.

(this will be a different topic I'll share later this week when I work up the energy and past the outrage)

My contribution has been minuscule compared to theirs.

 

Sorry Ukase and thanks. You've been taking the brunt of a lot off stuff lately. It has to be exhausting. My bad in this case.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Troo

[TraumaTrain]

All I know is jumping to conclusions is hard on your knees.

 

 

[Shad0hawK]

next song: "30 days in the hole" By Humble Pie 

 

hehe,  😉 the group name even works

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, Troo said:

Sorry Ukase and thanks. You've been taking the brunt of a lot off stuff lately. It has to be exhausting. My bad in this case.

If I have, I haven't noticed. I'm kind of feeling badly for Number Six. Poor fellow probably feels more Number two when I finished my post prior to my apology. 

And he is right - we need to try to get into more of an "us" as opposed to the "us vs them" mentality. 
In their favor, it is true that it's our own fellow players that are taking us for this ride. We just need our own players to recognize some things, while those of us not in the closed beta also recognize other things. If we can bridge that information gap from both sides, we'll all be singing Kumbaya in time for American Thanksgiving. 

[Wild Claw]

23 hours ago, Number Six said:

@Wild Claw Well that's annoying and unfortunate. Thanks for the tip, I'll talk to Cipher and Telephone about it.

It was *years* ago, so the version we were running under was probably different. And I know IPB has... interesting ideas as to what constitutes an 'upgrade', so it's entirely possible you have different options available. Hopefully like specific permissions for the OP.

 

The last several rounds of updates we got from IPD *removed* functionality in an effort to go more... Twitter-like as that was the darling of the social media at the time. I haven't really been paying attention recently, although I'm still technically in the staff Discord for that other forum.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:34 AM, Number Six said:

I checked the moderation logs. It was not hidden by a GM. The OP deleted their own thread and it took all the replies with it.

 

But way to go assuming the worst. This is exactly why the initial testing stages are done with an opt-in group. Developers have enough demands on their time and don't need to have to deal with this crap too.

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

Since no one asked me again, I'm going to say that @Ukase initial assumption was probably a pretty good assumption.  There *is* a clear trend of moderators selectively moderating threads.  That's your right.  This is your version of the game.

 

Now as more information came forward, Ukase apologized.  I'm still keeping my eyes open for @Number Six's apology for their reply, listed above.  Telling people that assuming that moderators are doing things similar to what they have recently done is "why we can't have nice things" is gaslighting and deflecting blame for non-inclusive behavior to others.

 

Frankly, I'd love it if we all could say, "I see why you think that.  Let me try to do better next time."  Because if this IS only us, then we need to make it all us and not us v. not us.

 

My two inf.

[Ruin Mage]

Six already apologized on a previous page.

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Six already apologized on a previous page.

 

Ah, I finally saw it on their sixth reply to the post.

 

EDIT: sixth reply after the gaslighting.  Seventh reply in total.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Yomo Kimyata

[Indystruck]

Edited February 25 by Indystruck

[Ukase]

9 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Since no one asked me again, I'm going to say that @Ukase initial assumption was probably a pretty good assumption.  There *is* a clear trend of moderators selectively moderating threads.  That's your right.  This is your version of the game.

 

Now as more information came forward, Ukase apologized.  I'm still keeping my eyes open for @Number Six's apology for their reply, listed above.  Telling people that assuming that moderators are doing things similar to what they have recently done is "why we can't have nice things" is gaslighting and deflecting blame for non-inclusive behavior to others.

 

Frankly, I'd love it if we all could say, "I see why you think that.  Let me try to do better next time."  Because if this IS only us, then we need to make it all us and not us v. not us.

 

My two inf.

Thanks, @Yomo Kimyata But I don't think his comment really needs one. We're all human, and man, even though I think some of the abuse is self-inflicted - Six isn't the problem. The problem is...well, it's us. Or Zuul, whatever the f**k that is. 

I was unaware, blissfully so, that we had a closed beta system that developed somewhat organically through Discord. And the folks that seem to be guiding our CoH "ship", to continue with that analogy, is .."us".  Not me. But other players. 

I know that I've teamed with GMs. I have a reasonable assumption that folks like @Bopper and maybe even @macskull might know enough code to be in that volunteer group of "power devs". I might have teamed with Mac a couple years ago, or done some hami raiding with him. But that was a long time ago. And we all know Bopper is mathematically gifted, with a penchant for number crunching, and has shared builds, insights on procs, and a host of other guides for helping the average player learn more about what's really going on behind the combat attributes and attack mechanics. 

I don't know why these players aren't coming out and sharing why they wanted to go the path they went. Maybe they're busy. And there is a small chance they know better. They certainly know more about coding. I'm just a null pointer exception looking for garbage collection. I probably goofed up that joke, too. 

I can't pretend to know what in the world is going on behind the scenes. 

For me - some days, I want to get on my high horse and trumpet that they're screwing things up by not consulting the player base. Some folks, who I respect, tell me that it's customary and counterproductive to be so transparent. I vehemently disagree, but I respect their view. I will continue to trumpet that all things should be disclosed prior to coding. Just because folks are great at coding doesn't mean they should be the only ones to pilot this figurative ship. 

It should be kind of like Oprah. 

"You get a say, and you get a say, and you , and you and you get a say! Everybody gets a say". 

The sane part of my brain is fully aware that there would be problems with that - because what happens if @Bionic_Flea insists on a band of wandering minstrels playing behind him as he travels through zones and @Snarky insists they be in front, heralding his arrival? How would such conflict be resolved? And it's that conflict - that's why we can't have nice things. Too many of us want what we want, and may or may not be thinking about the long term for HC:CoH and what that looks like. 

But, there's nothing rational about playing this game. Spending hours with nothing tangible to take into the real world. Except frustration from changes that we cannot control. Only a tiny voice, after the changes have been "Proposed". So, the crazy part of me says, "Screw it. I want to know. I want us all to know. Now."

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

26 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Or Zuul, whatever the f**k that is.

Ghostbusters reference.

 

"There is no Dana, only Zuul."

 

27 minutes ago, Ukase said:

But, there's nothing rational about playing this game. Spending hours with nothing tangible to take into the real world. Except frustration from changes that we cannot control.

Agreed.

 

That's why I'm asking that the devs post something like a Roadmap, or something about their POV on the game and what things they're considering working on. Just something to let us know how they see things and how they'd like to move the game forward.

 

Yes, yes. It's their server and they're volunteers and I'm just a pleb who isn't entitled to anything. And I'm not even disagreeing with that! I'm not asking to have any kind of say or input into decisions. Just a bit of info on their point of view and why some decisions have been made.

[MistressOhm]

Objective Viewpoint:

 

This is a game.

 

Slightly more detailed objective viewpoint:

 

This is a construct designed, by a carefully graded algorithm of risk vs reward, effort vs accomplishment, to burn as much idle time as possible, from multiple people, at the same time.  Originally it was designed to do that to such an efficient and, yes, fun degree, that people paid for it.

 

Subjective viewpoint:   I play my game how I like to play it.  I don't like it when the game is changed so that my 'play' gets negatively impacted. 

 

The above is the seed of the conflict.  Some people's play is being impacted.  "Nerfed" as it were.  And no, they're not happy.   Others, however, are probably thinking, no big deal, that isn't how I play so I don't care.  And still others are thinking that perhaps this is targeted, because "some methods of play are not approved of" and they either feel like they're the ones being slapped down, OR they're happy that others are being slapped down.  

 

Whatever.  All I know is, the construct was artfully done in the beginning, developed over years of work, and now is being lovingly maintained by a bunch of die-hards who would prefer that the system be played rather than just remembered.   And I for one appreciate the efforts to keep it going, even if some of the details aren't always to my liking.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

because what happens if @Bionic_Flea insists on a band of wandering minstrels playing behind him as he travels through zones

How did you know?

 

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That's why I'm asking that the devs post something like a Roadmap

I posted a set of Jimmy links and quotes that gave a fairly good roadmap:

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I posted a set of Jimmy links and quotes that gave a fairly good roadmap:

That post is from 3 years ago.

 

Sorry, you don't get to just point to that post forever and be like, "See, they posted a roadmap!" Yes, they sure did. It's out of date. What's unreasonable about asking for an update?

 

Look, an updated roadmap, or plan for the future, or dev blog, or whatever you want to call it would be beneficial for all of us. That being the case, why are so many of you against it?

[Lines]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Look, an updated roadmap, or plan for the future, or dev blog, or whatever you want to call it would be beneficial for all of us. That being the case, why are so many of you against it?

 

Not against it, per se, but I think it may be impractical.

 

It makes the dev team beholden to a plan that may project over years. Creativity can wax and wane many times over in that time. When your only incentive to create is your passion for the work, you will need to channel creativity into whatever suits you in the moment.

 

For that and many other reasons, such as technical obstacles, it's precarious to promise anything. Or even to write a post that could be interpreted as promising.

 

[Ruin Mage]

Not against it, just don't see a point in it. This isn't an Early Access Game - which is where a lot of this stems from, or so I'd like to believe.

Also the fact that things can end up being up in the air means it'd be kinda weird. Imagine a dev blog talking about potential changes coming in the next page, and someone runs with it as a promise of next page having those things. Only for things to not be there, for whatever reason. It sort of forces them into a possible scenario in having to explain it every time that happens. 

That and I think something something about a pipeline so maybe they'll do it anyway when its settled. I'll (not actually) eat a sock if that happens.

EDIT: I also do not believe for a second that certain forum posters wouldn't lose their minds if something the devs were considering doing DIDN'T end up in the next page. So personally? I'd rather not risk those sort of posters even if they're really just unavoidable.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 minutes ago, Lines said:

 

Not against it, per se, but I think it may be impractical.

 

It makes the dev team beholden to a plan that may project over years. Creativity can wax and wane many times over in that time. When your only incentive to create is your passion for the work, you will need to channel creativity into whatever suits you in the moment.

 

For that and many other reasons, such as technical obstacles, it's precarious to promise anything. Or even to write a post that could be interpreted as promising.

 

 

I understand your concern, but this isn't a Fortune 500 company with shareholders.  This is a pickup basketball game, or a weekly poker game.  No one is beholden to anyone, and saying, "You know, we wanted to try this, couldn't make it work, my bad," isn't gonna hurt anyone.

[Glacier Peak]

14 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That post is from 3 years ago.

 

Sorry, you don't get to just point to that post forever and be like, "See, they posted a roadmap!" Yes, they sure did. It's out of date. What's unreasonable about asking for an update?

 

Look, an updated roadmap, or plan for the future, or dev blog, or whatever you want to call it would be beneficial for all of us. That being the case, why are so many of you against it?

I'm not against it or for it. Maybe a forum goer can create a thread and update it personally with any links to Homecoming dev or staff posts regarding direction of the server. 

 

I mean, I did that with updates on Homecoming's legal status talks with formerly NCSoft (check my signature on desktop view). Just takes an interest and some free time, then a player can share it whenever someone wants to see what the latest info is.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That post is from 3 years ago.

 

Sorry, you don't get to just point to that post forever and be like, "See, they posted a roadmap!" Yes, they sure did. It's out of date. What's unreasonable about asking for an update?

 

Look, an updated roadmap, or plan for the future, or dev blog, or whatever you want to call it would be beneficial for all of us. That being the case, why are so many of you against it?

 

OK.  Then you get . . . more Jimmy links!

 

 

 

 

[Ironblade]

On 10/11/2022 at 10:07 PM, Bionic_Flea said:

 

OK.  Then you get . . . more Jimmy links!

 

 

Okay, when I read that my mind went somewhere I don't think you intended.

[Snarky]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:53 PM, Luminara said:

looks like my baby pic

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

looks like my baby pic

[Black Zot]

What the blueberry fuck did they do to that cat?