Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[AxerJ]

Amazing set, so fun - incredible work devs, one of my favorite now! The only tweak I might make is to increase the radius of Storm Cell a little bit. Not too much.

[WindDemon21]

7 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 If you want Storm Cell casting more often you can slot it for recharge.

Or Storm Cell could, y'know, just not be unreliable on account of being a mess to use.

And considering you pretty much need it on the set to be effective. Again, 30s rech, non-stack, 8ish end, 30s duration, Its awkwardly (unnecessarily) long at 90s I think 45s is the most i could see the powers base recharge being if not 30. You should be enhancing the other aspects of the power if you slot/enhance it, not the recharge.

 

If for some reason the devs desperately must have the pointless pseudopet nature of this power, then I'd say 45s recharge with its current 60s duration. The duration being extrta long really doesn't do anything overpowering on it. The issue is needing it on the mob reliably each time before you start attacking.

 

And yeah, not much replying to this part, but it REALLY feels like hailstones animation/impact/knock makes more sense as a bigger hitter, it just feels like it hits harder than the soft rain of cloudburst's trickling rain. Would really like to see these two powers swapped, they even have the same activation time, so just swapping their rech/damage/tier levels is all that would need done.

 

And again it would seem to me like chain lightning would do knockdown like impy's attack does (not just with storm cell i mean). Not set ending if it doesn't, but does feel odd without it doing that.

[GM Impervium]

Just a reminder folks: These threads are to give feedback to the DEVS, not to argue with one another. Doesn't matter if you disagree with an opinion, or someone is objectively wrong, etc.

Hid some posts.

[Thezanman]

Played through the early levels with this set, and it's pretty fun, although there are a few issues I experienced. The first thing I noticed is that the sound effects for the first few powers (Gust, Hailstones, and Jet Stream) are extremely quiet compared to other powers. Other than that, all of the powers were very entertaining in terms of aesthetics: I really liked the unique attack animations like Direct Strike, Hailstones, and Cloudburst. I'm glad to see Chain Lightning as well, since there were very few chain attacks in the game.

 

In terms of gameplay, I really liked the unique mechanics of Storm Cell and Category Five causing additional hits when you use Storm powers. However, Storm Cell felt very unreliable to use due to its long cooldown and very slow travel speed. It would struggle to keep up with runners, and would almost always lag behind when I simply walked between enemy groups. I imagine this problem would feel even worse in faster paced team play. This could be improved by increasing its movement speed, although I think it would need a large increase to work well with the current cooldown, and the AI navigation might still be a problem. It might be better to just turn it into a stationary effect and drastically lower its cooldown, while potentially lowering its duration if needed.

 

The other major concern I have is with Jet Stream's repel. While it was somewhat useful in the early levels to keep enemies away, when I increased the team size it quickly became counterproductive by scattering the larger enemy groups out of my AoEs, and this would definitely be an even bigger problem in a team. While it's an interesting idea to have Storm Cell convert the repel into a knockdown, as previously mentioned Storm Cell was too unreliable to consistently prevent scattering enemies. It is possible to remove the repel with the Overwhelming Force proc, but I still don't see much point in giving the power repel in the first place, since it doesn't even prevent the enemy from attacking like knockback does, and needing to buy an expensive enhancement in order to use an early level power effectively isn't ideal.

 

Finally, this is more of a personal preference, but I'd like to see more blast sets forego Aim equivalents in favor of having a more unique damage boosting mechanic, like Dual Pistols' ammo switching. Storm Cell already feels like it fits that role by essentially adding an extra damage proc to other Storm attacks, so I'd rather see Intensify removed from the set in exchange for making Storm Cell stronger. I'm not sure how other people would feel on the matter though, and that would also leave an empty power slot that would need to be filled by something else.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Thezanman

[Vanden]

22 minutes ago, Thezanman said:

I'd like to see more blast sets forego Aim equivalents in favor of having a more unique damage boosting mechanic, like Dual Pistols' ammo switching.

 

DP's Swap Ammo doesn't actually increase the damage it does, though. The idea of switching to a damage type that your enemies are weak to is appealing in theory, but in practice it rarely ever makes any difference.

[Thezanman]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

DP's Swap Ammo doesn't actually increase the damage it does, though. The idea of switching to a damage type that your enemies are weak to is appealing in theory, but in practice it rarely ever makes any difference.

I was thinking of Incendiary Ammo's extra DoT, but perhaps it isn't the best example. I mean things like Soul Drain, Follow Up, or Power Siphon which give damage boosts in different ways from the standard Build Up/Aim.

[WindDemon21]

5 minutes ago, Thezanman said:

I was thinking of Incendiary Ammo's extra DoT, but perhaps it isn't the best example. I mean things like Soul Drain, Follow Up, or Power Siphon which give damage boosts in different ways from the standard Build Up/Aim.

That's exactly what i was saying especially in regards to how it works with the nuke. Ice blast needs this too to last through blizzard.

 

Where a 30s duration but smaller buff for storm blast like 20% to hit and 20% damage would make a lot more sense.

[WindDemon21]

19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

DP's Swap Ammo doesn't actually increase the damage it does, though. The idea of switching to a damage type that your enemies are weak to is appealing in theory, but in practice it rarely ever makes any difference.

This also really needs addressed. The ammo format should offer an enhance able to hit bonus and damage boosts. It's a terrible power as is.

[Lazarillo]

Okay, same character (Storm/Electric Sentinel), but this time, I did a set build, to kinda compare it to what my other builds can do, and so here comes my next (final, until/unless there are some changes?) round of feedback.  Without Mids, or anything, this wasn't a totally tweaked build, but was fairly high-end-ish, included Alpha slot (Cardiac VR), and I ran solo at +2/x4, Bosses on, which is kind of my "this should be nice, brainless fun at this level of build" gold standard.  I put a KB->KD IO in Category 5 because it's kind of unclear which powers do KB and which don't, but that was the only one of those I used, however, I did take Frostbite from the Epic pool and that's got some -KB too (wouldn't work on the Jet Stream repel though, unless there's a special mechanic I'm unaware of, or didn't notice).  Anyway, that's the context:

• Once again, it just really, really, really feels like being able to place my Storm Cell and keep it in place is the key to success or failure.  When I can do that, I make pretty short work of the mobs I face.  When I don't, things start getting out of hand and are messy to clean up.  With the sets and enhancements I used, I got it down to about a 30 second Recharge, which handles things about 3/4 of the time when soloing but isn't likely to cut it on a team.  When longer Recharges are factored in due to non-optimal builds, or leveling, or even, maybe honestly just not having an Immobilize holding stuff in the field (I let Frostbite lapse once or twice), stuff scatters and things start going much more poorly.  The Storm Cell seems to meander a bit once mobs start taking the "flight" option of their fight-or-flight choices.  All that said, once again, my experiences suggest to me that the most important thing this set needs is a SIGNIFICANTLY faster Recharge on Storm Cell.  And honestly, coupled with that, it probably should be immobile (the second summoned pet seems already to replace the first...I saw the icons stack at at least one point, but I'm pretty sure the pet itself de-and-re-spawned).  I want it where it "belongs", not wherever its AI thinks it saw a shiny thing (again, it's usually not too bad about this, but a couple times, I saw it wander).
• I feel like Cloudburst could maybe use some love. It does about the same amount of damage as Lightning Strike, but it's a DoT (albeit a reasonably quick one), and has a longer activation time, and time before the hit lands.  It is a better damage power than Hailstones, in a set that really only needs 3 out of the 4 single target attacks, and it might be intentional to choose between the two for damage, versus control?  If so, I feel like on that note, Hailstones could use a little more oomph, too.  Maybe instead of 25/50% to KD depending on Storm Cell, make it flat out 50/100% KD?  And in addition to the debuff, maybe 1-2 more ticks for Cloud Burst if used with Storm Cell?
• A lot of the power descriptions are very unclear.  I'm not sure the best way to handle that, but for example, Intensify says it increases "storm strength", and has a +Special, but that's not very descriptive.  I assume that means it's buffing Storm Cell to more often tick damage, maybe?  Or that it enhances the secondary effects when powers are used in Storm Cell?  Or something else?  I'd like to know what I'm getting out of it, besides the normal-ish Aim buffs.  Similarly, Storm Cell itself.  I can slot it for damage or knockback, but the numbers in the power don't reference how much, if any, it's actually doing, or what the chances of it ticking are, etc (also, by default there's a ring around it...I'm guessing, but that means I don't currently have a cell active?).  And same with Category Five.  It talks about growing in power and synergy with other Storm attacks, but it's really unclear how any of that works, if any of the damage ticks it mentions are connected to that, or the different KB chances, etc.  It definitely seems to be laying waste to my foes, but it would be nice to be able to better understand the process by which I'm doing it.

So, summing up: give faster Recharge and better placement control for Storm Cell, maybe a small buff to Cloudburst and/or Hailstones, and let me know what my various buttons do besides "make something awesome-looking happen".

Edited April 7, 2023 by Lazarillo

[Heatstroke]

On 4/5/2023 at 5:51 PM, Wravis said:

One step closer to wind control, I guess.

 

Keep Hope Alive !!!!

[Heatstroke]

22 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Storm/Storm is sheer glorious chaos.

 

Great... already have Ice/Storm Controller, Fire Storm Controller, Water Storm Corruptor, Ice/Storm Defender.. 
 

Well Time for ANOTHER Stormie LOL

[MirrorDarkly]

2 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

Okay, same character (Storm/Electric Sentinel), but this time, I did a set build, to kinda compare it to what my other builds can do, and so here comes my next (final, until/unless there are some changes?) round of feedback.  Without Mids, or anything, this wasn't a totally tweaked build, but was fairly high-end-ish, included Alpha slot (Cardiac VR), and I ran solo at +2/x4, Bosses on, which is kind of my "this should be nice, brainless fun at this level of build" gold standard.  I put a KB->KD IO in Category 5 because it's kind of unclear which powers do KB and which don't, but that was the only one of those I used, however, I did take Frostbite from the Epic pool and that's got some -KB too (wouldn't work on the Jet Stream repel though, unless there's a special mechanic I'm unaware of, or didn't notice).  Anyway, that's the context:

• Once again, it just really, really, really feels like being able to place my Storm Cell and keep it in place is the key to success or failure.  When I can do that, I make pretty short work of the mobs I face.  When I don't, things start getting out of hand and are messy to clean up.  With the sets and enhancements I used, I got it down to about a 30 second Recharge, which handles things about 3/4 of the time when soloing but isn't likely to cut it on a team.  When longer Recharges are factored in due to non-optimal builds, or leveling, or even, maybe honestly just not having an Immobilize holding stuff in the field (I let Frostbite lapse once or twice), stuff scatters and things start going much more poorly.  The Storm Cell seems to meander a bit once mobs start taking the "flight" option of their fight-or-flight choices.  All that said, once again, my experiences suggest to me that the most important thing this set needs is a SIGNIFICANTLY faster Recharge on Storm Cell.  And honestly, coupled with that, it probably should be immobile (the second summoned pet seems already to replace the first...I saw the icons stack at at least one point, but I'm pretty sure the pet itself de-and-re-spawned).  I want it where it "belongs", not wherever its AI thinks it saw a shiny thing (again, it's usually not too bad about this, but a couple times, I saw it wander).
• I feel like Cloudburst could maybe use some love. It does about the same amount of damage as Lightning Strike, but it's a DoT (albeit a reasonably quick one), and has a longer activation time, and time before the hit lands.  It is a better damage power than Hailstones, in a set that really only needs 3 out of the 4 single target attacks, and it might be intentional to choose between the two for damage, versus control?  If so, I feel like on that note, Hailstones could use a little more oomph, too.  Maybe instead of 25/50% to KD depending on Storm Cell, make it flat out 50/100% KD?  And in addition to the debuff, maybe 1-2 more ticks for Cloud Burst if used with Storm Cell?
• A lot of the power descriptions are very unclear.  I'm not sure the best way to handle that, but for example, Intensify says it increases "storm strength", and has a +Special, but that's not very descriptive.  I assume that means it's buffing Storm Cell to more often tick damage, maybe?  Or that it enhances the secondary effects when powers are used in Storm Cell?  Or something else?  I'd like to know what I'm getting out of it, besides the normal-ish Aim buffs.  Similarly, Storm Cell itself.  I can slot it for damage or knockback, but the numbers in the power don't reference how much, if any, it's actually doing, or what the chances of it ticking are, etc (also, by default there's a ring around it...I'm guessing, but that means I don't currently have a cell active?).  And same with Category Five.  It talks about growing in power and synergy with other Storm attacks, but it's really unclear how any of that works, if any of the damage ticks it mentions are connected to that, or the different KB chances, etc.  It definitely seems to be laying waste to my foes, but it would be nice to be able to better understand the process by which I'm doing it.

So, summing up: give faster Recharge and better placement control for Storm Cell, maybe a small buff to Cloudburst and/or Hailstones, and let me know what my various buttons do besides "make something awesome-looking happen".

 

I think this is a very balanced assessment of this set and matches what I see.

 

I really, really enjoy it on the sentinel and it will probably be the thing that gets me to finally take one up to 50. But the set lives and dies on your ability to get storm cell where you need it and I almost always find myself waiting to recast it rather than hoping it follows me to the next group in a timely manner. Letting us place it more often would be a big quality of life improvement especially in teams. 

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[honoroit]

storm / electric affinity i say, it should offer a goodish blend of dpsey cc, unique buffs, and look nice doing it.

 

i hope the chain in storm is a fast chain (like ea heals, and not like electric control confuse)

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

 

• A lot of the power descriptions are very unclear.  I'm not sure the best way to handle that, but for example, Intensify says it increases "storm strength", and has a +Special, but that's not very descriptive.  I assume that means it's buffing Storm Cell to more often tick damage, maybe?  Or that it enhances the secondary effects when powers are used in Storm Cell?  Or something else?  I'd like to know what I'm getting out of it, besides the normal-ish Aim buffs.  Similarly, Storm Cell itself.  I can slot it for damage or knockback, but the numbers in the power don't reference how much, if any, it's actually doing, or what the chances of it ticking are, etc (also, by default there's a ring around it...I'm guessing, but that means I don't currently have a cell active?).  And same with Category Five.  It talks about growing in power and synergy with other Storm attacks, but it's really unclear how any of that works, if any of the damage ticks it mentions are connected to that, or the different KB chances, etc.  It definitely seems to be laying waste to my foes, but it would be nice to be able to better understand the process by which I'm doing it.

Intensify increases the chance that your OTHER powers will Proc Storm Cell or Cat 5.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I highly recommend pairing Storm Blast with Dark Miasma; there's actually some very nice synergies between the two sets. 🙂

[MirrorDarkly]

Has anyone tested procs in Storm Cell and Cat5? 

 

I know they normally don't do well in rains but these two have a whole bunch of lightning attacks that fire off in them which seem to benefit from damage enhancements.

 

I'm wondering if procs pass through to those and if so how well.

[Frosticus]

Observation:

Single target attack chain isn't very inspiring with not a lot of punch as well as quite a bit of dot damage

It seems to be an attrition set and probably plays underwhelming on fast teams. Probably ideal for solo or small teams

 

Bug:

Storm cell can slot just about everything under the sun for sets. Ranged aoe damage procs and knockback damage procs seem to have no effect. Self buffing procs like defender bastion forcefeedback, power transfer, etc do trigger on cast.

 

Used category 5 (unslotted) on top of Storm Cell slotted with damage procs and didn't see then trigger at all in the logs. But more testing is probably needed.

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Thezanman said:

Finally, this is more of a personal preference, but I'd like to see more blast sets forego Aim equivalents in favor of having a more unique damage boosting mechanic, like Dual Pistols' ammo switching. Storm Cell already feels like it fits that role by essentially adding an extra damage proc to other Storm attacks, so I'd rather see Intensify removed from the set in exchange for making Storm Cell stronger. I'm not sure how other people would feel on the matter though, and that would also leave an empty power slot that would need to be filled by something else.

 

To be honest Storm Cell feels more like Amplify than Amplify does. It's a power that amps the damage in an innovative manner that is not just % in raw damage. But just like Super-Strength and Rage so does Storm Cell make the rest of the set tick and without it the set is limping along.

 

We may be too far along to just re-do the whole set now, otherwise I would suggest tweaking all powers to work better at baseline and Storm Cell to act like a damage boost. As it is Storm Cell is superficially a boost, but in practice it is like playing SS without Rage.

 

 

At the risk of sounding negative I once more feel that there is a disconnect with the team of devs and the game. DoTs, damage that starts weak to grow, long recharges in crucial powers when even a moderate team will destroy a regular +4 group and move on the next. this is not how the game is at the moment outside the 1% that is hardmode TFs.

 

This is not so much a teeth grinding fist shaking remark and more of a gentle nudge that the game is more than spreadsheets.

 

 

Now other than this I don't think the idea behind Storm is bad at all. Even the weaker nature of the t9 is not that bad in my opinion because while a Blaster will nuke most of the spawn there will always be lieutenants and a boss or two that survives and needs to be killed. The longer lasting T9 and Storm Cell ensures that whatever AT is picked for Storm will be blasting all the mobs until they all go. but I will echo the others that Storm Cell needs A) to be immobile (can't trust the AI to suddenly decide it ought to go climb stairs for a mob plinking in the distance) and B) decent recharge with lower duration since that is a lot more crucial as fights in CoH do not last long but are quickly repeated.

[High_Beam]

Ammo swapping, as others have said, is a novelty at best.  I use fire with the DoT on enemies that like that have interruptible summons (Raider Engineer, Rikti Communications Officer) and Toxic sometimes but essentially it stays on Chiller rounds because of the visible block of ice animation that helps let everyone on a team know the state of the foe.  The fact that they tweaked the Mags to a variable state on the ammo swap makes the changes to Suppressive fire more problematic.

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, Thezanman said:

Finally, this is more of a personal preference, but I'd like to see more blast sets forego Aim equivalents in favor of having a more unique damage boosting mechanic, like Dual Pistols' ammo switching. Storm Cell already feels like it fits that role by essentially adding an extra damage proc to other Storm attacks, so I'd rather see Intensify removed from the set in exchange for making Storm Cell stronger. I'm not sure how other people would feel on the matter though, and that would also leave an empty power slot that would need to be filled by something else.

 

Passive Power that grants smaller +DMG/+To-Hit, but a bigger amount when in Storm Cell.

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

The rest, go play the game, you'll see LOTS of people preferring knockdown, again, easily most.

 

You know how many people I have heard complain about knockback since I've been back playing at Homecoming?

About 5 or 6 including you.

 

Never at the same time. No more than 1 player on task force team of 8.

Sporadically over over years ... 5-6 players.

I don't play the end-game, but the people that play the game don't complain about knockback.

 

And I play plenty of characters that have knockback and use it when I'm on teams.

 

No. In my experience, it is not most. It is very small minority.

 

20 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

You shoudln't have to worry about recharge on it just for it to do it's actual main job.

 

Some people feel that way about domination, but that isn't the point of domination.

 

You're really worked up over a great powerset that other people are enjoying.

Look around and read the other posts. 

Other people aren't have the issue that you are having.

 

You are in the minority. 

Being very vocal doesn't mean you are correct. It just means you are upset and want to vent.

 

I'm enjoying the set.

Edited April 7, 2023 by UltraAlt
corrected spelling of "task force"

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, Thezanman said:

However, Storm Cell felt very unreliable to use due to its long cooldown and very slow travel speed.

 

How do you compare it to Carrion Creepers?

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, Vanden said:

DP's Swap Ammo doesn't actually increase the damage it does, though

 

It depends on the weakness of the foes you are fighting.

 

13 hours ago, Vanden said:

The idea of switching to a damage type that your enemies are weak to is appealing in theory, but in practice it rarely ever makes any difference.

 

I'm not sure that is the case.

However, I tend to use the ammo thematically based on character creation, so I really like the ability to be able pick the type of ammo my character is using.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

 

You know how many people I have heard complain about knockback since I've been back playing at Homecoming?

About 5 or 6 including you.

 

Never at the same time. No more than 1 player on task for team of 8.

Sporadically over over years ... 5-6 players.

I don't play the end-game, but the people that play the game don't complain about knockback.

 

And I play plenty of characters that have knockback and use it when I'm on teams.

 

No. In my experience, it is not most. It is very small minority.

 

 

Some people feel that way about domination, but that isn't the point of domination.

 

You're really worked up over a great powerset that other people are enjoying.

Look around and read the other posts. 

Other people aren't have the issue that you are having.

 

You are in the minority. 

Being very vocal doesn't mean you are correct. It just means you are upset and want to vent.

 

I'm enjoying the set.

Look around, and what I've posted myself. The set is fun I've said that multiple times now, that doesn't mean it doesn't need a few tweaks for the better.

 

Many have mentioned the issue with storm cells recharge it's not just me. I most definitely am not in the minority on this.

 

And many more feel the same about knockback as well. Just because they may not complain doesn't mean that it doesn't bug them, (especially if you ever play melee). Again someone else said it best, if it wasn't an issue for lots of people, they wouldn't have made two different IOs to convert it to knockdown.

 

Seriously take a poll, you may get a good bit of "just don't care" but I guarantee you without a doubt you'll get more who prefer it as knockdown especially on teams than those who prefer it as knockback.

 

(And as a de-facto domination should 100% be a perma toggle, that's another thread but "isn't the point" doesn't matter when it was "the point" created almost 20 years ago by devs who clearly didn't fully understand what they were doing and didnt see how crucial it is)

 

Edit: I love how you contradict yourself too because I am literally quoting you here regarding how people view knockback.

 

"First take is that some teams won't like other characters on the team because of the knockback and that the set has a power that is fixed to a location so the set will be to slow for bulldozer teams. (I see other people say that the storm cell moves around. I didn't notice that occuring, but I was trying to fight in fixed locations.)

Neither of these are negatives from my viewpoint, but I can see that others will."

 

It's LITERALLY your first take, meaning you acknowledge how big of a deal it is for most people especially since that is your FIRST take.

Edited April 7, 2023 by WindDemon21