6 slot health and stamina? Pros/Cons

[shortguy on indom]

6 slot health and stamina?  Pros/Cons

 

Anyone do this these days?  What am I missing?

[roleki]

Maybe there's an outlier or two, but I cannot imagine a set bonus in either Health or Stamina that would justify not using those slots anywhere else in the build.

[tidge]

The only reason I can see to 6-slot either Health or Stamina would be for set bonuses. IMO any other non-Auto power that takes the (non-global) enhancements is a better choice of slots. If another power is an Auto (or an early enough power that will be always on) power, I may not invest even a second slot in either Health or Stamina, depending on how tight the build is.

 

Almost all my characters 2-slot each of them. I will occasionally add a third slot to Health (for Tankers, 2-slots go to Numina's... because MOAR regeneration..., 1 will be another global). On soft characters with few HP and poor defenses, sometimes I will make sure to have the Power Transfer %Heal added to 2xPerformance Shifters (EndMod and %+End) in Stamina.

 

Leaping from what @roleki wrote: After the third slot in either power, I'm sure every AT has a better use for the slots.

 

[Bopper]

I don't see how Stamina 6-slotted will ever justify that much investment. At most, you could dedicate 2 slots to maximizing the enhancement for the power (think two +5 IOs), then use the rest for procs/uniques. For Stamina, that would be Performance Shifter and Power Transfer procs.

 

For Health, you certainly can 6-slot if it suits your build. You have Preventative Medicine's Absorb proc, Panacea's HP/End proc, Numina's Regen/Rec unique, Miracle's Recovery unique, and Regenerative Tissue's Regen unique. That leaves you one slot if you'd like to enhance the Health power. My choice would be +5 Panacea Heal to get 53% enhancement and add a 2.5% recovery set bonus that you don't have to worry about losing to exemplaring. Or ditch the regenerative unique and go with another +5 panacea or go with an attuned numina. The extra enhancement and set bonus may be better off for you.

[Without_Pause]

I 6-slotted Physical Perfection since I wanted the 8.75% Recharge bonus. Granted, once I figure out some numbers that might change. 

[Snarky]

Waste. Of. A. Build. Strategy.

[shortguy on indom]

Interesting.  

While in game a couple weeks ago, a teammate messaged that they just 2 slotted each.  Was scratching my head, really?

From the replies so far can see that just a few slots containing procs are preferred strategy for each.

 

I  have always 6 slotted both health and stamina since the 'live days.'

Seems to make my melee tanky defender more durable for the first 4 or 5 critical seconds during aggro dive into a mob.  Regen and recovery seem almost instant after the initial dive.

 

On one of my 3 builds, the 'toggle build' I run 10 toggles at all times.  Had to do some creative endurance red/endurance reduction slotting in other powers along with the 6 slot stamina to make it work, but for the others I guess I can get away with fewer slots.

 

I must be the only one who slots 'em all the way up. lol

 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

I  have always 6 slotted both health and stamina since the 'live days.'

6-slotting anything with one type of enhancement died with the introduction of Enhancement Diversification in Issue 6 (2005). You get diminishing returns after the 2nd slot and almost no value for any slots after the 3rd.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Enhancement_Diversification

[FupDup]

I could maybe see up to 4 slots of Shifter in Stamina for the 2.5% recovery bonus, but even then I'd rather 3-slot Stamina up to the ED cap and then 2-slot Panacea in health for the same set bonus and a little extra regen. 

[catsi563]

yeah as others have said there really isnt any gain from adding more than 2 addiitonal slots to heakth and stamina that you cant get from other powers even with certain set bonuses 4-6 slot bonuses

 

3 slots max in each is usually always th best bet

[shortguy on indom]

Going to have to deep dive into this health/stamina slotting thing. With some real numbers.

For whatever reason my usual 6 slotting for both works very well.

 

Thinking for now, is that the incarnates are super boosting what I currently have.
(windows machine down, so i cannot get actual 'game' values for the incarnates or to make a spreadsheet).

In theory, can triple stack incarnates... so I think that is what's going on.

 

*Incarnates for Health: (Regen)
Alpha-Spiritual = base 33% = 104.6%
or
Alpha-Vigor     = base 33% = 104.6% or 45% = 127.2%

then double dip with
Destiny-Rebirth

then triple dip with
Hybrid-Melee

 

*Incarnates for Stamina: (End Mod)
Alpha-Agility     = base 33% = 104.6% or 45% = 127.2%
or
Alpha-Musculature = base 33% = 104%

then double dip with
Destiny-Ageless

then triple dip with
Hybrid-Support

 

As far as I know, do not think that 'Procs' gain anything from incarnate powers but unsure of that.

For the incarnate system numbers which I calculated for the 'chancetohit' spreadsheet, they inc system uses Pre-ED %.

If this is true, could be that filling more slots in these powers is worthwhile in comparison to proccing them out.

Looking into this.
 

[Yomo Kimyata]

12 hours ago, Bopper said:

I don't see how Stamina 6-slotted will ever justify that much investment. At most, you could dedicate 2 slots to maximizing the enhancement for the power (think two +5 IOs), then use the rest for procs/uniques. For Stamina, that would be Performance Shifter and Power Transfer procs.

 

 

I could see a case where someone thought that the three-piece bonus from Synapse's Shock was worth it for an additional 10% slow resist, but that's a stretch.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

between 2 and 4 depending on the builds requirements

[shortguy on indom]

My 3 current builds on my one toon have Regen numbers between 200% to about 290ish% with incarnates off.

 

Like watching the bar jump up after I jump in and aggro a group.  For me, just need a few seconds to recuperate before my aggro auras take effect on enemy, and I am good to go.

 

Maybe I am shooting to high of a regen number for my defender.  But not so easy trying to be a two-bit tank with my build.

 

What numbers do most shoot for?

 

Not sure what my end mod numbers are, until I can log-on and check.

[The Chairman]

@shortguy on indom: How, specifically, have you six slotted each power? Are we talking sets, SOs, common IOs? Knowing that would assist the discussion.

Edited October 15, 2023 by The Chairman

[Heatstroke]

15 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

6 slot health and stamina?  Pros/Cons

 

Anyone do this these days?  What am I missing?

 

 

Health yes.. usually on Tanks.. 

Stamina never.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

I  have always 6 slotted both health and stamina since the 'live days.'

Seems to make my melee tanky defender more durable for the first 4 or 5 critical seconds during aggro dive into a mob.  Regen and recovery seem almost instant after the initial dive.

 

Health's base value: 40% +Regeneration.  Base time between Regeneration pulses: 12 seconds.

 

Health with 3x +0 SOs (94.93%):  40 * 1.9493 = 77.972%.  5% HP Regenerated every 12 / 1.78 = 6.74 seconds.

 

Health with 6x +0 SOs (109.97%):  40 * 2.0997 = 83.988%.  5% HP Regenerated every 12 / 1.84 = 6.52 seconds.

 

Health with 6x 50+5 Health IOs (127.7%):  40 * 2.277 = 91.08%.  5% HP Regenerated every 12 / 1.91 = 6.28 seconds.

 

Health with 3x +0 SOs and 1x 10% +Regeneration set bonus: (40 * 1.95) + .1 = 88%.  5% HP Regenerated every 12 / 1.88 = 6.38 seconds.

 

The same math, and conclusion, applies to Stamina (base value: 25%, base time between pulses: 4 seconds).

 

Light slotting in Health and Stamina is rational.  Utilizing Heath and Stamina as proc mules or set bonus fodder is rational.  Six-slotting either power with SOs or common IOs is hamstringing yourself.

[shortguy on indom]

32 minutes ago, The Chairman said:

@shortguy on indom: How, specifically, have you six slotted each power? Are we talking sets, SOs, common IOs? Knowing that would assist the discussion.

 

Set always for me.

 

Health: Always. (depends on what I currently have more recipes of at the time).

5@Preventive Medicine +1@Panacea Proc

or

5@Panacea + 1@ Preventive Medicine Proc

 

Base value = 40%

ED value for either set is 80%.  Currently my value is 80%.

Pre-ED value = not sure atm

 

Stamina: Always

6@Synapse Shock if I need the Mez protection

or

6@Power Transfer if I need more Accuracy.  (been switching for more Acc lately).

 

Think my 6 slotted value is 40%?

Base value = 25%

ED = ?

Pre-ED = ?

[Hedgefund]

I can't imagine what the 6th slot in Stamina would be, but this doesn't look too bad:

 

 

Everything is a unique or proc except the 2nd pieces of sets (Numi, Perf Shifter, Power Transfer) which are Heal or End Mod. 

 

That slotting for Stamina put end mod at ED Max and there's not another proc to slot so there's nothing else to put there.

 

Personally, I try to minimize slotting in both powers.  It's not atypical for me to have a Pana proc in Health and just a Perf Shifter proc in Stamina.  There are exceptions, just saying it's not atypical.

[MoonSheep]

2 in both at max, the difference isn’t overly noticeable thesedays. certainly wouldn’t slot it much as a defender. primary powersets far more worthwhile putting slots into

[nihilii]

I come close sometimes.

Various setups:

- full Power Transfer or Synapse's Shock set in Stamina, for the juicy bonuses.

- 3 Synapse's Shock + Perf Shifter proc + Power Transfer proc in Stamina

- Panacea + Numina + Miracle procs in Health. Sometimes I add the Preventive Medicine and Regen Tissue procs + a Numina or Preventive Medicine Healing, if that character has no means of healing

[roleki]

15 hours ago, tidge said:

Leaping from what @roleki wrote: After the third slot in either power, I'm sure every AT has a better use for the slots.

 

 

For what it's worth, I usually 3-slot Health with the Miracle/Numina/Panacea procs, and Stamina usually gets 3 slots of Perf Shift, unless I go four slots with two pieces of Power Transfer and two pieces of PerfShift, but that's because I am a nutcase for +Recovery and random green numbers floating over my head.

[shortguy on indom]

36 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Light slotting in Health and Stamina is rational.  Utilizing Heath and Stamina as proc mules or set bonus fodder is rational.  Six-slotting either power with SOs or common IOs is hamstringing yourself.

Great write-up!

 

All seem close when at ED.

Maybe just a small difference when incarnate boosted due to their different Pre-ED values.

[shortguy on indom]

Cool to see all the different thinking/slotting yall have.

[Communistpenguin]

I 3 slot stamina, and for health , it depends on the toon, but I will always put SOME slots into it. I load both up with  procs.