Should folks who contribute get something extra?

[mistagoat]

I lean towards no but if it were just a badge or title I wouldn't be bothered. It doesn't feel necessary though.

[temnix]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:26 PM, Troo said:

Should folks who contribute get something?

 

I have no problem with the current system. This is merely a question/suggestion/discussion topic.

We all get to play. Not everyone donates, remembers to, or can donate. Again, I have no problem with the current funding system.

 

When putting $$ into a kickstarter there is often something extra provided.

 

One could suggest those donating to Homecoming are helping keep the lights on and funding ongoing development.

Yes, it is a donation with no expectation.

However, I would guess if we shutdown the day after a donation window, a good faith effort would be made to return unused funds.

 

 

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game. You have already heard contrary opinions from some very obtuse people here, though, and Homecoming is committed to some imaginary idea of freebie communism - as if even under communism people would not all have to work to share in the benefits. It's just that prestige perks should have been implemented differently, more magnanimously, for example, being mostly different rather than more powerful. There may not be a regular power that does both Energy and Toxic damage, but one could be fashioned exclusively for players who help, a good power but not overwhelming, with original special effects and sound. There wouldn't be anything unfair about that. And six months later, say, these exclusives would pass into common domain. But you shouldn't expect a reasonable conversation about this here. Homecoming is a group of modders, nothing more, with peculiar modders' notion that you can run a project on voluntary enthusiasm - well, of course they didn't make the game. And many players balk at the idea that those who pay "outside" the game world deserve something more than they who pay "inside" with time spent in the game, without realizing that when they play, they only play, not work. They have only played when they took the character to level 50 and optimized the Es and fought in trials and so on, even though it was a lot of grinding, without contributing one bit. They think they are improving the bed by sleeping.

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, temnix said:

 

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game. You have already heard contrary opinions from some very obtuse people here, though, and Homecoming is committed to some imaginary idea of freebie communism - as if even under communism people would not all have to work to share in the benefits. It's just that prestige perks should have been implemented differently, more magnanimously, for example, being mostly different rather than more powerful. There may not be a regular power that does both Energy and Toxic damage, but one could be fashioned exclusively for players who help, a good power but not overwhelming, with original special effects and sound. There wouldn't be anything unfair about that. And six months later, say, these exclusives would pass into common domain. But you shouldn't expect a reasonable conversation about this here. Homecoming is a group of modders, nothing more, with peculiar modders' notion that you can run a project on voluntary enthusiasm - well, of course they didn't make the game. And many players balk at the idea that those who pay "outside" the game world deserve something more than they who pay "inside" with time spent in the game, without realizing that when they play, they only play, not work. They have only played when they took the character to level 50 and optimized the Es and fought in trials and so on, even though it was a lot of grinding, without contributing one bit. They think they are improving the bed by sleeping.

The Prestige Store back on Live was where you went to spend the prestige points you earned automatically from playing the game long enough. The other content that could be purchased was available to everyone to purchase.

[Enamel_32]

It's hard to see a transfer of money as a donation if the donor receives something in return, it becomes much more like a purchase. While I have no insight into the agreement made with NCSoft I can only imagine this ventures into undesirable legal territory.

[Glacier Peak]

Jimmy

Posted January 27, 2020

 

"Donations are purely voluntary and will not result in any benefits or rewards."

 

 

 

[CrusaderDroid]

A few questions.

 

1. This thread's still open?

 

1 hour ago, temnix said:

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game. You have already heard contrary opinions from some very obtuse people here, though, and Homecoming is committed to some imaginary idea of freebie communism - as if even under communism people would not all have to work to share in the benefits.

2. You still post here?

3. You still want to commit to bad ideas in doomed threads?

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, temnix said:

 

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game.

 

... you mean something to encourage people to *pay for a subscription* (or otherwise spend money) in a commercial game, run by the original owners and publisher for the express purpose of making money? You know, the reason most businesses exist?

 

And if you're so against how the game is run and so dismissive of the people who have run it and dug into it since 2012 (SCoRE, the HC team and others) - since they're "just modders," after all -  why are you here? You can head to Ourodev and pick up almost everything needed to run your own server (and instructions on how to set up the stuff they don't provide, all of which is free) and go play with yourself there.

[Troo]

13 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

It's hard to see a transfer of money as a donation if the donor receives something in return

 

Doesn't NPR and many non-profits do exactly that to encourage giving? (just devil's advocate to your premise)

 

[Lines]

That guy said something we disagree with! Let's get 'im!

[Paradox Fate]

17 hours ago, Krimson said:

Heh, imagine some really interesting donation tier rewards.

 

At the $100 level, you can unlock pre-nerf Burn for your Brutes and Tankers.

At the $250 level, you can unlock full XP for all mobs in Architect Entertainment.

And for $1000, you can unlock old-school Moment of Glory for your Regen characters...

 

And once we got $5000, you can choose to nerf Regen! Damned thing getting cheeky again, time to take it down a notch.

 

 

Jokes aside, I do believe this is more of a recent trend to have donators being more openly recognized in social media and elsewhere (Giving people Discord ranks in their channel or YT clips of streamers showing SUPER LONG LISTS of patreon donors in their credits), so perhaps this had kicked it off as well.

 

If you want to throw donors a bone, give something simple. A title on the forum, or a badge in their profile.

(Although I would also tie it to a agreement that this is a purely optional reward for recognition and the donor has no claim for anything, while also telling them that these rewards can be altered and removed at any given time.)

[Excraft]

15 hours ago, temnix said:

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game.

 

That made sense when the game was a commercial, for profit venture.  It is not for profit now and will never be for profit again. 

 

Hard NO from me on this terrible idea.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Paradox Fate said:

 

f you want to throw donors a bone, give something simple. A title on the forum, or a badge in their profile.

 

 

Or the game continuing to run.

 

Oh, wait...

[Ukase]

When I read the title of this post, I was thinking of the more popular names when it comes to leading content in game, not donations. 

My father and I had a bit of a routine discussion when I'd leave a light on after leaving a room. 

"Money doesn't grow on trees." 

And then, he'd also say, "Time and money are both valuable resources. Of the two - time is more valuable. I can accumulate money, but I can't accumulate time."

Armed with this, it's my opinion, while donated funds are appreciated, they're not the same gift as those that give their time to making the game what it is. 
Someone like Cobalt, who works behind the scenes quite a bit. Oklahoman, Cygnus, Titan Ice, Laucianna, (I know there are others, but these are just the names at the top of my head) that provide opportunities for humor and in-game rewards. 

I would rather league leaders get an extra emp merit or prismatic (or something like that) for their sacrifice of time making pop-menu macros. I've led leagues. It's a bit of a headache, and sometimes thankless. And the folks that are writing new content, or painstakingly testing various powers in that new content, they should get a little something extra too. Might motivate more folks to help more. 

 

But donations? Nah. People give for a number of reasons, but if it's a true gift, it is done so with no expectations, no thoughts of favors in the future. 

 

[Oklahoman]

You are wise beyond your years @Ukase, and I can tell you are a good judge of people.

[lemming]

8 hours ago, Troo said:

Doesn't NPR and many non-profits do exactly that to encourage giving? (just devil's advocate to your premise)

Non-profits fall under a bunch of different categories, and while I've been involved in non-profit activities for 25 years, that's a part I don't pay as much attention to. (And I do know the feds do crack down on bad non-profits occasionally.  One I worked for in the 90s had their status revoked due to board shenanigans)

 

HC is set up to not make a profit due to agreement with NCSoft.   That's probably more restricting than going for a 501c3 even.

 

For non-profits like the animal rescues I've worked with, we can sell stuff, but that isn't considered a donation for tax purposes for the purchase.   And non-profits don't have to not sell stuff, there are just a bunch of different rules to follow to be considered a non-profit.  See tax codes, etc...  which gets more complicated with international...

 

 

[Seed22]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

When I read the title of this post, I was thinking of the more popular names when it comes to leading content in game, not donations. 

My father and I had a bit of a routine discussion when I'd leave a light on after leaving a room. 

"Money doesn't grow on trees." 

And then, he'd also say, "Time and money are both valuable resources. Of the two - time is more valuable. I can accumulate money, but I can't accumulate time."

Armed with this, it's my opinion, while donated funds are appreciated, they're not the same gift as those that give their time to making the game what it is. 
Someone like Cobalt, who works behind the scenes quite a bit. Oklahoman, Cygnus, Titan Ice, Laucianna, (I know there are others, but these are just the names at the top of my head) that provide opportunities for humor and in-game rewards. 

I would rather league leaders get an extra emp merit or prismatic (or something like that) for their sacrifice of time making pop-menu macros. I've led leagues. It's a bit of a headache, and sometimes thankless. And the folks that are writing new content, or painstakingly testing various powers in that new content, they should get a little something extra too. Might motivate more folks to help more. 

 

But donations? Nah. People give for a number of reasons, but if it's a true gift, it is done so with no expectations, no thoughts of favors in the future. 

 

This could be something that came straight from my dad’s mouth. You hit the nail on the head. 
 

[Troo]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:25 AM, Paradox Fate said:

And once we got $5000, you can choose to nerf Regen!

 

Whoa hoo hoo turns out this was a terrible idea, I can't apologize enough. Please put the big guns away.

[arcane]

On 6/26/2024 at 12:39 PM, temnix said:

 

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more. That was the reason for the prestige store in the original game. You have already heard contrary opinions from some very obtuse people here, though, and Homecoming is committed to some imaginary idea of freebie communism - as if even under communism people would not all have to work to share in the benefits. It's just that prestige perks should have been implemented differently, more magnanimously, for example, being mostly different rather than more powerful. There may not be a regular power that does both Energy and Toxic damage, but one could be fashioned exclusively for players who help, a good power but not overwhelming, with original special effects and sound. There wouldn't be anything unfair about that. And six months later, say, these exclusives would pass into common domain. But you shouldn't expect a reasonable conversation about this here. Homecoming is a group of modders, nothing more, with peculiar modders' notion that you can run a project on voluntary enthusiasm - well, of course they didn't make the game. And many players balk at the idea that those who pay "outside" the game world deserve something more than they who pay "inside" with time spent in the game, without realizing that when they play, they only play, not work. They have only played when they took the character to level 50 and optimized the Es and fought in trials and so on, even though it was a lot of grinding, without contributing one bit. They think they are improving the bed by sleeping.

I really thought you only started threads. Good to know you can reply too 🙂 

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Whoa hoo hoo turns out this was a terrible idea, I can't apologize enough. Please put the big guns away.

Nah, it's not a terrible idea. Charities and non-profits and people asking for money on Kickstarter do this all the time. If Homecoming chooses not to, or can't because of their deal with NCSoft, that just means that it won't happen, it's doesn't mean that it was a terrible idea.

 

And, like you said, it's just a question/discussion topic. No reason that we can't talk about it.

[starro]

we all want HC to succeed and have resources.  Good try. 🙂 

 

 

[Techwright]

On 6/26/2024 at 1:58 PM, Enamel_32 said:

It's hard to see a transfer of money as a donation if the donor receives something in return, it becomes much more like a purchase. While I have no insight into the agreement made with NCSoft I can only imagine this ventures into undesirable legal territory.

You made the point better than I could.  I'm not opposed to the concept, but even some minor item given might be problematic in this specific case.  I gather Troo wanted to do something nice, and I accept the spirit of that.

 

On 6/27/2024 at 3:58 AM, Lines said:

That guy said something we disagree with! Let's get 'im!

...and his little dog, too.  Don't forgot the little dog. 

[uninventive]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:25 AM, Paradox Fate said:

If you want to throw donors a bone, give something simple. A title on the forum, or a badge in their profile.

(Although I would also tie it to a agreement that this is a purely optional reward for recognition and the donor has no claim for anything, while also telling them that these rewards can be altered and removed at any given time.)

 

This is entirely too reasonable!  Stop it!

 

I imagine this would require some work on the donation system end of things: it is possible to click "Donate" and not pay anything, and no idea if the forum account is reported in the PayPal Invoice for the donation, so just clicking Donate isn't enough.  Also, folks who donate month over month being named more than once...

Could be as simple as modifying the donation form to add a "if you want recognized, what name would you like to use? 32-characters, must follow Code of Conduct, and optional."  (Don't follow Code of Conduct? Then they'll take the donation and just ignore the name given.) Might also be solved a different way: requiring a PayPal account to donate under a name so repeat donors are counted only once.  (Can still donate anonymously, just won't be asked for a name if you do.)

I'd venture away from in-game or forum/Discord titles for donors, and mostly in the same direction as the Staff Page: add a block of text at the bottom of a Forum static page listing donors for the last 6 months or some other sane frequency to update a list that isn't a monthly chore.
 

On 6/28/2024 at 8:26 AM, Troo said:

Whoa hoo hoo turns out this was a terrible idea, I can't apologize enough. Please put the big guns away.

 

Something = anything.  I never assumed you were after cash shop or rare item drops in-game in the first place.

Edited July 1 by uninventive

[seebs]

On 6/26/2024 at 12:39 PM, temnix said:

 

Of course it is right and proper that those who contribute more get more.

I think you should may be go read more superhero comics and come back when you're more familiar with the genre.

 

Superhero comics are about imagining people being better than that.

 

The world is full of rat races and grinds and people being told that since they can't contribute, they're just fundamentally lesser beings who do not deserve respect, or even care. I didn't come here to see if I could find a way to make another place where I'm more important than other people because of all the luck I had that put me in a place to succeed. Yeah, I "work really hard", but people who work harder than me and didn't get as lucky get paid a tenth as much. And I'm not better than them. Maybe I get paid more, but I'm not more important, and me being in a position where, if I were ever fast enough at clicking, I could donate more money than someone else doesn't mean I should "get more". If I donate, it's because I want the thing to exist, and part of what I want about this thing existing is precisely that I don't get anything if I donate.

 

[Voltor]

Giving awards for donating would technically make it "pay to play" and I don't think NCSoft would like that.  Call it a hunch

 

The reward for donating is the game itself. It exists and donations maintain its existence, that is all the reward we need.

[GM Crumpet]

People donate, or don't donate as they wish. There is no reward, except to keep the game running. We aren't running for a profit and the staff are all volunteers who are passionate about the game and the players. Some people seem to think that means we are not as worthy as paid employees for some reason, but as with most ventures run by unpaid volunteers the passion and love is often a great deal higher.