Lets discuss the potential Omega incarnate slot.

[KingofMonkeys]

I have no idea what the plans were for a final incarnate ability, maybe something is in the works?

 

If there was an omega slot, what would it do? Would it be like a godmode? Do we even need any more incarnate abilities?

 

Discuss.

[Bopper]

I would think if the game is going to add more powerful incarnates you would also need to add more powerful content to keep some challenge in the game. So although I think the developers can easily incorporate the Omega incarnate (perhaps it's already developed), I don't think there is enough free time for the developers to create the new content. So for that reason, I hope it just stays as is. Afterall, I think of this game differently than other MMORPGs, it's played more for the nostalgia and the fact it still holds up after all these year. I have no expectations of expansion...which I wouldn't want, anyways.

[dasefex]

36 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I would think if the game is going to add more powerful incarnates you would also need to add more powerful content to keep some challenge in the game. So although I think the developers can easily incorporate the Omega incarnate (perhaps it's already developed), I don't think there is enough free time for the developers to create the new content. So for that reason, I hope it just stays as is. Afterall, I think of this game differently than other MMORPGs, it's played more for the nostalgia and the fact it still holds up after all these year. I have no expectations of expansion...which I wouldn't want, anyways.

IMO we need more difficulty now. I also agree no point in omega now as most heroes are on god tier already.

[Snakebit]

You could double the perception, hitpoints, recharge, and debuff strength of most of the mobs in the late game and still not have a challenge against a 8 player team. 

 

[DR_Mechano]

Apparently the next three slots were all buffs to pre-existing slots with a choice of which of the slots you buffed (so like one could choose either buff Alpha or Interface) out of the set we have now. I'm not entirely sure how that would work but hey, that was supposed to be the idea I guess. The Omega slot, in that vain, I imagine would be a massive overall buff to the character. Apparently according to post sunset interviews it was like legit ridiculous levels of power which made even the current iTrials we have ingame a cakewalk. I imagine that it would basically turn the player character into the same power level as a regular non iTrial AV. So you'd get the PtoD, huge scaling debuff resistances, large damage resistances, large damage buff etc. 

[Obitus]

48 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Apparently the next three slots were all buffs to pre-existing slots with a choice of which of the slots you buffed (so like one could choose either buff Alpha or Interface) out of the set we have now.

I'd settle for a buff that makes Interface DoTs useful again. 😛

 

(Seriously, I suspect that Interface DoTs are bugged, unless there was a patch note that I missed somewhere, explicitly nerfing them.)

[Omnicron]

In the solo mission at the end of Number 6's arc, Antimatter has a power that uses an incarnate icon with an Omega symbol on it. IIRC, it's a single target toggle that deals damage and heals the user when the target dies.

 

No idea how representative of an Omega symbol incarnate that power was supposed to be.

[Steelhelm]

Some information I found off Lore AMA 2013:

 

" Q) What was going to be the plan for the final incarnate powers and trials? (@Sarrona)
A) There was no “final”, once Omega slot was reached that would be the new “Alpha” slot and 10 more Incarnate levels would appear above it. Getting the first 10 Incarnate powers would have been trivialized so the “new grind” would be the Omega-base tree. And then there was a tree after that, and one after that, etc. (Matt)

 

Q.) Do you have any insight as to what the Omega Incarnate Slot might be? The others seemed badass enough already. PBAoE kill everything?
A.) Jeff Hamilton would know. I don’t remember if this was Omega or not, but I know one of the latter tiers did allow you to nuke minions through your magnificence. There were also abilities that let you trade off one stat for another. (Hosun)
A) I’ve said this in a couple places but the primary trees which had been sketched out on paper were Arete (instant recharge on all powers for a period), Majesty (cause foes to instantly fight for you and then self-destruct), Infinity (summon doppelgangers of yourself), Transcendence (immune to everything and can attack into Phase), and Fulfillment (major PBAOE +Level Shifts) (Tim)"

 

The full doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11bjjR2rdP9Kbe8baODElUQGRxNTTlj_b5PVqCdNXJ8o/edit

 

These powers sounded really cool, especially Infinity (which I would have absolutely LOVED on my Ill/Time). Though, I wonder how content would have been like as the scale of Incarnate powers increased. After Battalion, there would have been Dimensionless and possibly True Rikti and Primordials, so maybe launching out into space zones?

[Sunsette]

Personally speaking, am glad we never got to the higher tiers of incarnate. Feels less like superheroes and more like elder gods. Making enemies fight on your behalf and then self-destruct is some Darkseid stuff, and while that helps make him a great villain it'd be kinda weird if Superman or WW busted it out on him. I understand the game design decisions that went into that, but I already feel eh about Lore slot (thank god for robotic drones) and if my main wasn't literally angelic themed I might have a problem with judgement; I remember none of them fit my live scrappers or brutes, though Vorpal and Mighty now would. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Sunsette

[Shadowsleuth]

I just wish there was an Incarnate reward that allowed you to earn additional Enhancement slots for your powers (one at a time) until all your powers reached the maximum number of slots; every single power six slotted.

[Trickshooter]

On 8/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, DR_Mechano said:

Apparently the next three slots were all buffs to pre-existing slots with a choice of which of the slots you buffed (so like one could choose either buff Alpha or Interface) out of the set we have now.

There's some confusion here. Only Genesis, the next Incarnate slot, would have provided buffs or additional abilities to the previous slots (minus Alpha and Hybrid). The different ability choices would have been named for the Incarnate slots they'd improve: Data for Lore, Verdict for Judgement, Socket for Interface, and Fate for Destiny. I can't remember what they all did without checking, but I remember Data would have improved the damage and health of Lore pets.

 

Arbiter Hawk said in one of the Lore AMAs that Genesis was going to be buff/debuff patches, but Genesis is like 25% set-up in the piggs and that isn't what it does, so I assume he confused Mind or Vitae with Genesis. I don't think they would have gotten as far as they did on Genesis and then changed it, unless they hit a huge roadblock and completely scrapped it internally.

 

Omega was described by "Tim" (who I assume is Black Scorpion) in one of the Lore AMAs, also:

Quote

I’ve said this in a couple places but the primary trees which had been sketched out on paper were Arete (instant recharge on all powers for a period), Majesty (cause foes to instantly fight for you and then self-destruct), Infinity (summon doppelgangers of yourself), Transcendence (immune to everything and can attack into Phase), and Fulfillment (major PBAOE +Level Shifts)

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Trickshooter

[ShardWarrior]

On 8/3/2019 at 3:54 PM, Bopper said:

I would think if the game is going to add more powerful incarnates you would also need to add more powerful content to keep some challenge in the game. So although I think the developers can easily incorporate the Omega incarnate (perhaps it's already developed), I don't think there is enough free time for the developers to create the new content. So for that reason, I hope it just stays as is. Afterall, I think of this game differently than other MMORPGs, it's played more for the nostalgia and the fact it still holds up after all these year. I have no expectations of expansion...which I wouldn't want, anyways.

^ Completely agree.  Fully pimped out incarnates are making +4 x8 content much, much too easy to the point of being boring.  Making them even more powerful only exacerbates the issue.

[golstat2003]

Agreed. No point to more slots if the content appropriate for that level of power can't be added.

 

And with a volunteer dev team I don't think we're likely to ever see such content added anytime soon.

 

Powersets maybe, but full on TFs and story lines, ehhhhhhhh. . . .

[MunkiLord]

Making content harder probably isn't overly difficult, I'm going to assume(I know, I know) that it may be as simple and changing some values. But simply adding more HP and higher resists to existing content probably isn't a compelling solution for most people.

[Sidious]

Content is now much harder than ever to do, simply because so many groups have servers running.

A central authority could, conceivably, churn out new content but then the servers would have to accept it and run it.

 

I just don't see that happening anytime soon.

At least, not until the coders finish modernizing and updating the game to a single install EXE. 

 

But then you need writers and people willing to implement the new stuff.

If you thought the early days of The Return(tm) were filled with drama, just wait. 

[Yoru-hime]

5 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Making content harder probably isn't overly difficult, I'm going to assume(I know, I know) that it may be as simple and changing some values. But simply adding more HP and higher resists to existing content probably isn't a compelling solution for most people.

This was already starting to break down during live. More damage and bigger HP pools only go so far. That's why there were so many mechanics/gimmicks to the Incarnate Trials, to try to keep it interesting and challenging.

 

Personally, I've read the AMA and while I don't think it was answered in bad faith, I don't see how Omega in that form possibly would have made it into the game. It would have driven the Devs absolutely insane going forward. If the shutdown had never happened, I think it would have almost had to get revised into something manageable at some point.

 

Part of the problem with the suggested Omega slot is the raw power, but the other part is the huge variety to the options. While all the Lore pets are a little different, they all do about the same thing and can be accounted for in trial development as though they're about the same. Same thing with Judgment. Be it Fire, Ice or Void, big boom is big boom. Later iTrials assume that you've got one and for the devs' side of thing, it doesn't really matter which one you picked. The ideas for Omega, though, are all over the place. Instant Recharge, Absolute Invincibility, Mass Confuse/Destruction, Level Shifts.... Trying to design an encounter that can seriously challenge a group that has some or all of these available, and yet may be short-handed or outright lacking any specific one, is going to be a real headache for developers.

[Jeneki]

If we want Omega to live up to the hype, it should enable the "I WIN" button.  When pressed, it displays the message "Congratulations! You win!" and plays some credits.

 

(Yes this is silly, don't take a post asking for a button that plays credits seriously.)

Edited August 6, 2019 by Jeneki

[GavinRuneblade]

8 hours ago, Jeneki said:

If we want Omega to live up to the hype, it should enable the "I WIN" button.  When pressed, it displays the message "Congratulations! You win!" and plays some credits.

only against current content. Per the AMAs the omega content was supposedly going to mostly be us getting curb stomped by battalion until dream doctor pulls a hail mary with Rularuu and we banish them out of the dimension forever.

 

Then the post battalion was Prometheus turning on us for outgrowing him plus rogue dimensionless that make battalion look like wimps.

 

As Sunsette said above, it stopped being about superheroes and more gods. But it also always was intended to have enemies that are stronger than the players at each step.

[Oklahoman]

Am I the only one who would like to see FEWER powers to click?

 

Like Omega could let you basically create powers by combining 2-3 other powers to fire at the same time or something? (some restrictions apply, of course)

[Chance Jackson]

On 8/5/2019 at 2:29 PM, Yoru-hime said:

This was already starting to break down during live. More damage and bigger HP pools only go so far. That's why there were so many mechanics/gimmicks to the Incarnate Trials, to try to keep it interesting and challenging.

 

Personally, I've read the AMA and while I don't think it was answered in bad faith, I don't see how Omega in that form possibly would have made it into the game. It would have driven the Devs absolutely insane going forward. If the shutdown had never happened, I think it would have almost had to get revised into something manageable at some point.

 

Part of the problem with the suggested Omega slot is the raw power, but the other part is the huge variety to the options. While all the Lore pets are a little different, they all do about the same thing and can be accounted for in trial development as though they're about the same. Same thing with Judgment. Be it Fire, Ice or Void, big boom is big boom. Later iTrials assume that you've got one and for the devs' side of thing, it doesn't really matter which one you picked. The ideas for Omega, though, are all over the place. Instant Recharge, Absolute Invincibility, Mass Confuse/Destruction, Level Shifts.... Trying to design an encounter that can seriously challenge a group that has some or all of these available, and yet may be short-handed or outright lacking any specific one, is going to be a real headache for developers.

Void is the only one where it's "all the same"

[Chance Jackson]

On 8/4/2019 at 8:25 AM, Sunsette said:

Personally speaking, am glad we never got to the higher tiers of incarnate. Feels less like superheroes and more like elder gods. Making enemies fight on your behalf and then self-destruct is some Darkseid stuff, and while that helps make him a great villain it'd be kinda weird if Superman or WW busted it out on him. I understand the game design decisions that went into that, but I already feel eh about Lore slot (thank god for robotic drones) and if my main wasn't literally angelic themed I might have a problem with judgement; I remember none of them fit my live scrappers or brutes, though Vorpal and Mighty now would. 

I'd say majesty feels right for certain powered anti-heros & villains like Illumi & Killgrave. I for one hope homecoming devs consider finishing omega & that mutant themed power pool.

[jsalonin]

I rather we just get the taskforces we got to itrial levels version of them first. And then more content that is must harder than what we have now. We do not need more powerfull heroes, when everything is pretty easy at the current state. We need harder content that is a challenge for those with full incarnated to do. Rewards could be things we could use on our 1000´s alt, so it aint ae farming that is the only option. But teamwork in hard challenges settings that is.

[Abraxus]

Once we have resolution (one way, or the other) to the talks with NCSoft, I would expect to start hearing more about the future of the game, and the development efforts for potential changes/new content.  Until then, I don't believe things will change too much, outside of fixes for issues that need more immediate attention.  After things are solidified, so many things are possible!  Some of which will thrill people, and disappoint others.  In other words, just like it always was, and always will be. 😎

[Squidnunc]

An easy way to make more challenging content without much additional dev time would be to count each of these "super incarnate" characters as two slots in any mission or task force. So you could only take up to four people who'd reached this level into what's normally an 8 person task force, and it would still treat it as if 8 heroes were present.

 

Mind you, this wouldn't be a good direction for the game -- you want to encourage grouping and interaction among players. But it would be much easier than coding whole new mechanics, enemies and scenarios.