The Plan for Wind Control [updated w images first-last post]

[Bossk_Hogg]

22 hours ago, Vanden said:

Putting out power sets with lazy, hacked-together visuals is not a good look for any development team.

Basically every set significantly re-uses assets or animations. There isn't a single one that I know of that uses all unique. Besides, if it bothers you, don't play it. It's not like you really pay that much attention to your teammates power animations anyways.

[Waypoint]

Dual Pistols is very unique.

 

I have faith the powers team will make good animations for Wind Control. No need to reuse existing assets.

[daveyfiacre]

5 hours ago, lobster said:

I would be fine with this kind of implementation.  I'm not seeing "new graphics" as a thing we'll be getting much of, so I'd be happy just to see the mechanics in game.

They are fun mechanics. The pet was pretty wild, for those few minutes I tested it. And even using reused animations for 3 of its 4 things, it’s play style was completely different than existing pets. And when it dropped that ‘hail of debris’... and that neverbefore seem Vfx... the part of me that had been waiting for wind control for ten years when I posted it on the old coh forums pretty much had a gaming-gasm. Then i cried a little. Then I made this OP. Lol

 

funny because I think wind control among other power sets originally leaked a few days before the announcement of closure. That week was both the happiest and saddest of my life lol.

Edited August 22, 2019 by daveyfiacre

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Basically every set significantly re-uses assets or animations. There isn't a single one that I know of that uses all unique.

With the exception of Electric Melee, every single melee set added after CoH launch uses entirely new animations for all its attacks. New FX as well. The only powers that weren't new were Taunt, Placate, and whatever Build Up equivalent the sets had. When they added Dual Pistols, they already had three dual pistol attack animations from Thugs, that were brand new with Thugs. Didn't use 'em, all Dual Pistol attacks were new animations. New armor sets always had new FX for the attacks. New buff sets, control sets, Mastermind primaries, new FX was the default expectation. Reused FX were by far the minority.

2 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Besides, if it bothers you, don't play it. It's not like you really pay that much attention to your teammates power animations anyways.

Did it not occur to any of you guys telling me to just not play it that I might actually want to play Wind Control and would be disappointed if they made a Rad Melee/Armor of it?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Vanden

[Chance Jackson]

4 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

/signed

 

I'll take Wind Control in any form. Reuse all the animations and VFX you want, I don't even care, I want it.

This

[krj12]

I'm very much looking forward to this set.  I have an alt that would fit much better concept-wise with wind control than what I've chosen.

 

Any news if this will also become a blaster set at some point?

 

 

[Coyote]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:17 PM, Vanden said:

Putting out power sets with lazy, hacked-together visuals is not a good look for any development team.

 

You mean a professional studio? Or a team of unpaid volunteers?

 

Adding Wind Control with hacked-together visuals that look decent on their own, even if they repeat animations, IS a fine visual. I mean, heck, we have TONS of powers in the game that use the same cast animations and very similar particle effects with each other.

[Haijinx]

A lot of the original power sets use the same animations.  

 

Not sure how using them here would be different?

 

 

[Vanden]

25 minutes ago, Coyote said:

You mean a professional studio? Or a team of unpaid volunteers?

I mean any development team.

 

25 minutes ago, Coyote said:

I mean, heck, we have TONS of powers in the game that use the same cast animations and very similar particle effects with each other.

We don't have powers with FX that don't match the effect area of the power, or ranged attack FX being used for melee attacks, or FX designed to convey debuffs being used for armor toggles (the exact opposite sort of effect!) in the sets that had proper FX work done for them.

[daveyfiacre]

39 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

You mean a professional studio? Or a team of unpaid volunteers?

 

Adding Wind Control with hacked-together visuals that look decent on their own, even if they repeat animations, IS a fine visual. I mean, heck, we have TONS of powers in the game that use the same cast animations and very similar particle effects with each other.

This. Lol and I wrote an extensive list of decent or great visuals, some rarely or never used (desert winds anybody?). And if it’s possible to change the default color to grey on them all, power effects are obviously different, Bam looks and feels like the completely new power set it is. 

 

And you put yourself in the hole of ‘i won’t play it if it’s rehashed vfx,’ but also can’t play it if it’s not available. Hate to break it to you but a whole new set of brand new animations at the quality of new power sets at release isn’t happening. The devs we have are awesome and great, and voluntarily contribute as they can and like. And our best hope is something like this. Take it or leave it, and if or when it happens it’s up to you and everyone whether they play it or not.

 

More than anything I’m just happy to play again. Second more than anything tho, I want wind control lol. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by daveyfiacre

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, daveyfiacre said:

This. Lol and I wrote an extensive list of decent or great visuals, some rarely or never used (desert winds anybody?). And if it’s possible to change the default color to grey on them all, power effects are obviously different, Bam looks and feels like the completely new power set it is. 

Look, I know you put a lot of effort into your proposal, but coloring ice or inky darkness grey is not gonna make it look like wind. It'll look like grey ice and grey inky darkness.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Vanden

[Some Random User]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

You mean a professional studio? Or a team of unpaid volunteers?

There is a pinned thread asking for players with coding experience. We need a thread where any players with 3D model animation experience can volunteer to do this work. (Note: Then if there really isn't anyone who can make them we will know.)

[FrostyDelicious]

7 minutes ago, Some Random User said:

There is a pinned thread asking for players with coding experience. We need a thread where any players with 3D model animation experience can volunteer to do this work. (Note: Then if there really isn't anyone who can make them we will know.)

There is, its under art. I am a visual effects artist and i volunteered, havent heard back yet

 

[Some Random User]

1 minute ago, FrostyDelicious said:

There is, its under art. I am a visual effects artist and i volunteered, havent heard back yet

So they know we have a community of willing and able developers? You'd think they don't want to let anyone else be staff for the game or something.

[FrostyDelicious]

9 minutes ago, Some Random User said:

So they know we have a community of willing and able developers? You'd think they don't want to let anyone else be staff for the game or something.

My thought is that until homecoming figures out the current situation with NCSoft, they probably dont want to bring more people onboard for development. 

[Some Random User]

12 minutes ago, FrostyDelicious said:

My thought is that until homecoming figures out the current situation with NCSoft, they probably dont want to bring more people onboard for development.

I think the point is that they're not the only fans. This isn't the sort of work that would be limited to a single project. All of the community's servers could use the animations.

[oedipus_tex]

What do we even know about the ability to create new particle effects in CoX? I've done it for some other games (notably Torchlight 2 and Age of Wonders 3) but both of those games came with easily hackable particle effect engines. I have no idea how CoX generates its effects. 

 

Regardless I don't mind recobbled effects if the powerset concept is interesting.

 

Wind Control would be amazing. As would so many other possible sets. Control sets are an area with tons of possibility. We never really got a set that was similar to Illusion, for example. Or a set that is all PBAoE. Or a set that focuses on teleporting you around. So much potential.

Edited August 23, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Coyote]

7 hours ago, Some Random User said:

So they know we have a community of willing and able developers? You'd think they don't want to let anyone else be staff for the game or something.

 

The Mythical Man-Month: adding developers to a late software project often makes it EVEN LATER.

The reality is that adding any member to any development team will automatically slow down that development team for a while as they introduce the new person to the environment, the tools, the job, and the team. Then, you gain back performance later as the person becomes productive. If the person works long enough and well enough, after a while you break even, and then you pull ahead.

The more complicated and messy the environment, the longer it takes to get someone to become productive. Given what I read about CoX's messy code and databases, I think that bringing someone onboard to do work is a relatively big step. Leaving aside the legalities.

 

Given the situation, I actually think that instead of looking for coders and visual artists, they should FIRST be looking for experienced project managers, who can be taught the overall situation more quickly without having to learn the exact details, and then let those managers bring people onboard and do basic training with them so that the experienced developers don't have to spend time doing training more than once for the head manager.

[Galaxy Brain]

9 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

We don't have powers with FX that don't match the effect area of the power

Claws' Spin

[golstat2003]

I'd be fine if they re-used graphics/effects to get Wind out.. I'm not expecting professional level work from a bunch of volunteers.

Edited August 23, 2019 by golstat2003

[oedipus_tex]

RE: powers special effects that don't match effect area. I have learned in the past that a way to sometimes fake this is to attach an effect enemies or players in the AoE to fake the radius of powers. You can pull a lot off with this trick.

 

There are a number of effects in the game that seem like they'd lend themselves to a Wind set. Storm, Time, Sonic Attack, Sonic Resonance, even Dark Miasma all offer what seem to be pretty good starter particle effects. The pet could possibly be created from the Dark pet with a different pallette and given a toggle power that attaches an effect like Steamy Mist.

 

 

I'd love at some point to set up my own server and try cobbling some powers together to see if how the system works. My current set back is my laptop's harddrive is currently close to capacity. I'd love to toy with some of these theories and be able to post actual completed power designs as proof of concept. But I am not sure how realistic that is. I really enjoy designing character classes and spells/powers in other games. The Theolentist class I made for Torchlight 2 was highly inspired by City of Heroes. I made it during my period of grief about the game being gone. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=136409017

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Rylas]

On 8/21/2019 at 4:10 PM, Vanden said:

No more reusing FX that were never designed for the powers, thanks. That’s the reason I’ll likely never make a Rad Melee or Rad Armor character. If they’re gonna put Wind Control in the game, they should do it right and make FX that fit the powers.

If this was a development team being paid for their hard work and efforts, yeah, I might expect getting all the bells and whistles that should come with new powersets. But we're talking about people that still need to work full time jobs to put meals on their family's table and keep a mortgage covered. Let's maybe not get too uppity in expectations when getting *ANYTHING NEW* at all is literally a gift of someone's free time. 

Or better yet, be willing to do the work you think needs to be done if you're capable of doing it. And if you aren't, just have some grace and patience.

[Rylas]

On 8/21/2019 at 10:41 AM, daveyfiacre said:

Hello!

 

Wind control is an almost completed powerset, functionally working and only really missing completed animations. But, as with other powersets in HC, namely some radiation ports, existing animations could be used. Currently the wind control powerset consists of the nine main powers, and four pet powers, all except one using placeholder animations pulling from Ice and Gravity mostly. ONE existing power, belonging to the pet** uses an animation made for the powerset. Below, I list the powers existing in the code and working, and suggest alternate best case scenario Existing Animation Assets ports [to either replace or add as alternate's to default, if that's easier] to publish the powerset for us all. 🙂 At the end is a list of wind or wind like powers that can also be pulled from.

 

 

Wind Control Set [As Is] ---- Placeholder Animation / Suggested Animation:

 

Updraft [ST knockup] ----- crush / ice armor whirlwind fx for each armor, minus the armor

Downdraft [ST Hold] ----- block of ice / terrible howl [direworlf power] centered on target

Breathless [T AoE Immob] -----frost bite / chilling howl [direwolf power] + time manip heal 'rings' as immobfx

Windshear [PB AoE Slow] ----- arctic air / snow storm on player character

Thundergust [Cone KD] ----- shiver / desert winds [npc power, animation only]

Microburst [T AoE Stun] ----- flashfire / Hail of Debris [Vortex Pet Power] **

Keening Winds [T AoE Confuse] ----- mass confusion / heart of darkness

Vaccum [T AoE Hold] ----- glacier / shadowfield OR Dimension Shift + choking animation on targets

Vortex [Pet] ----- ice golem / darkness control Haunt Shade OR Storm Elemental w Arctic Fog or Frozen Aura fx

 

Pet Powers:

 

Blast of Debris [ST Ranged] ----- Throw Spines / Desert Winds [npc power, animation only]

Whirlwind [PB AoE] ----- unknown / hurricane

Hail of Debris [T AoE DoT] ----- NEW WIND ANIMATION [see image] **

Crash of Thunder [T AoE Stun] ----- Thunderclap/Thunderclap

Wow, I that's a lot of impressive work you've clearly put in! I know you're asking for thoughts on animations, but I've barely played much with controllers so I'm not familiar with the most of the ones you've listed for options. I'm curious though about your thoughts on what the powers will do outside of control effects. Low/Med/High damage? Any DoTs? Debuff effects? 

 

Also, once you've flushed this out and are finished with it, do you have any ideas for other sets? Asking for a friend who likes seeing new stuff for the game. 

 

...that friend is me.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, Rylas said:

If this was a development team being paid for their hard work and efforts, yeah, I might expect getting all the bells and whistles that should come with new powersets. But we're talking about people that still need to work full time jobs to put meals on their family's table and keep a mortgage covered. Let's maybe not get too uppity in expectations when getting *ANYTHING NEW* at all is literally a gift of someone's free time. 

Or better yet, be willing to do the work you think needs to be done if you're capable of doing it. And if you aren't, just have some grace and patience.

What makes you think I'm impatient? I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to do Wind Control right, unlike the people in this thread who want it now now now, without a thought as to how unpolished it would look.

[Rylas]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

What makes you think I'm impatient? I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to do Wind Control right, unlike the people in this thread who want it now now now, without a thought as to how unpolished it would look.

I suppose you have a point. You're so patient in how much quality you demand of people's good will and generosity.