Flavour of the Month: Level 50

[Grandfeatherex]

7 hours ago, Purrfekshawn said:

 

Because new to this game players often take Empathy with Defender trying to make a typical "Healer" build that is mandatory in another MMO's. On practive that Defender loses a lot of offensive power while being only slightly better than e.g. Corruptor with the same layout (Regen/Recovery aura, for lnstance, is as much powerful for Def & Corr).
 

A tiny lil' request - on detailed charts, please, also print builds, those scored "0". (no one took them). Because it ends with builds with 1 player on them, it seems to be made automatically, but sentinel overall options =12*13=156, there's only 151 entries, so 5 of them probably scored 0, and due how lists are written currently it may be hard to spot what exact builds did that. Would be great to know, so ppl would try to make builds those haven't made by anyone yet.

a cor might get the same RA's but they don't get the same buffs for fort, heal, leadership bonuses, or debuffs from attacks, on a smaller team an emp can keep cycling fort or even stacking fort for a much higher deffence bonus than a cor, as well as healing more and debuffing more with attacks, so while some might count them as "just a healer" that's not an accurate assumption, nor is it fair to say cors are more "powerful" since a deffenders "power" comes more in the form of buffs/debuffs than a cor


i would also like to see the 0 builds, as well as power pools, epic/patrons, and SoA bane/crab/soldier fortunata/night widow/widow breakdowns

[calash]

So is the challenge to roll an alt using the least used powers for a set?

[Troo]

 

Sure roll a little or unused combo and play it as a viable character. If you're 1 of 1 (or few), that would be a unicorn.

[Troo]

On 9/29/2019 at 6:49 PM, Grandfeatherex said:

i would also like to see the 0 builds

@Purrfekshawn @Grandfeatherex

 

As I read it I think this was the zero 50 list as of 9/3 (ish). Maybe this has the missing sentinels? I realize you may be looking for builds not attempted at all..

 

Archetype	Primary	Secondary	Level 50s	Total Attempts
Blaster	Assault Rifle	Darkness Manipulation	0	198
Brute	Street Justice	Stone Armor	0	90
Brute	Savage Melee	Ice Armor	0	82
Brute	Ice Melee	Regeneration	0	67
Brute	Katana	Stone Armor	0	24
Brute	Spines	Energy Aura	0	24
Brute	Ice Melee	Super Reflexes	0	21
Brute	Stone Melee	Super Reflexes	0	14
Controller	Ice Control	Sonic Resonance	0	47
Controller	Ice Control	Traps	0	25
Corruptor	Assault Rifle	Force Field	0	81
Corruptor	Dual Pistols	Trick Arrow	0	73
Corruptor	Electrical Blast	Traps	0	54
Corruptor	Energy Blast	Nature Affinity	0	47
Corruptor	Dark Blast	Traps	0	37
Corruptor	Radiation Blast	Traps	0	31
Corruptor	Assault Rifle	Thermal Radiation	0	25
Corruptor	Water Blast	Trick Arrow	0	19
Corruptor	Psychic Blast	Trick Arrow	0	4
Defender	Cold Domination	Archery	0	301
Defender	Cold Domination	Assault Rifle	0	143
Defender	Time Manipulation	Assault Rifle	0	64
Defender	Storm Summoning	Beam Rifle	0	29
Defender	Storm Summoning	Assault Rifle	0	24
Defender	Traps	Energy Blast	0	22
Defender	Sonic Resonance	Assault Rifle	0	18
Defender	Traps	Psychic Blast	0	12
Defender	Trick Arrow	Electrical Blast	0	5
Defender	Trick Arrow	Radiation Blast	0	3
Mastermind	Beast Mastery	Traps	0	335
Mastermind	Necromancy	Trick Arrow	0	65
Scrapper	Dual Blades	Ice Armor	0	93
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Radiation Armor	0	39
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Super Reflexes	0	30
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Invulnerability	0	20
Scrapper	Kinetic Attack	Dark Armor	0	46
Scrapper	War Mace	Ice Armor	0	21
Sentinel	Archery	Invulnerability	0	107
Sentinel	Archery	Electric Armor	0	71
Sentinel	Energy Blast	Ice Armor	0	26
Sentinel	Archery	Ice Armor	0	24
Sentinel	Assault Rifle	Ice Armor	0	24
Stalker	Broad Sword	Dark Armor	0	213
Stalker	Ninja Sword	Fiery Aura	0	65
Stalker	Claws	Fiery Aura	0	56
Stalker	Ice Melee	Ninjitsu	0	49
Stalker	Broad Sword	Fiery Aura	0	36
Stalker	Kinetic Attack	Ice Armor	0	30
Stalker	Claws	Ice Armor	0	29
Stalker	Dark Melee	Fiery Aura	0	27
Stalker	Martial Arts	Fiery Aura	0	21
Stalker	Martial Arts	Radiation Armor	0	21
Stalker	Kinetic Attack	Fiery Aura	0	14
Stalker	Fiery Melee	Electric Armor	0	12
Stalker	Martial Arts	Ice Armor	0	11
Stalker	Martial Arts	Dark Armor	0	68
Stalker	Dark Melee	Ice Armor	0	37
Tanker	Fiery Aura	Street Justice	0	79
Tanker	Electric Armor	Savage Melee	0	60
Tanker	Fiery Aura	Kinetic Attack	0	46
Tanker	Bio Organic Armor	Ice Melee	0	43
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Battle Axe	0	43
Tanker	Dark Armor	Kinetic Attack	0	40
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Spines	0	40
Tanker	Dark Armor	Martial Arts	0	37
Tanker	Dark Armor	Street Justice	0	54
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Ice Melee	0	19

Edited October 3, 2019 by Troo

[Flints]

Here's my Icers.

All are pretty rare (Due to being Ice Tankers), with only the Claws being a Unicorn.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Flints

[Coyotedancer]

My KM/Fire Stalker... one of only 14 out there... has not yet hit 50.

But finishing them is going to be my next project after getting Ajda (PsiMelee/EA Stalker) done.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

TLDR: Everyone hates ice, Everyone love fire, Unicorns exist

[VV]

I'm a little late to the party, but does this make anyone else want to make characters with the least-popular sets? Only me?

[Xandyr]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:33 PM, Troo said:

@Purrfekshawn @Grandfeatherex

 

As I read it I think this was the zero 50 list as of 9/3 (ish). Maybe this has the missing sentinels? I realize you may be looking for builds not attempted at all..

 

Archetype	Primary	Secondary	Level 50s	Total Attempts
Blaster	Assault Rifle	Darkness Manipulation	0	198
Brute	Street Justice	Stone Armor	0	90
Brute	Savage Melee	Ice Armor	0	82
Brute	Ice Melee	Regeneration	0	67
Brute	Katana	Stone Armor	0	24
Brute	Spines	Energy Aura	0	24
Brute	Ice Melee	Super Reflexes	0	21
Brute	Stone Melee	Super Reflexes	0	14
Controller	Ice Control	Sonic Resonance	0	47
Controller	Ice Control	Traps	0	25
Corruptor	Assault Rifle	Force Field	0	81
Corruptor	Dual Pistols	Trick Arrow	0	73
Corruptor	Electrical Blast	Traps	0	54
Corruptor	Energy Blast	Nature Affinity	0	47
Corruptor	Dark Blast	Traps	0	37
Corruptor	Radiation Blast	Traps	0	31
Corruptor	Assault Rifle	Thermal Radiation	0	25
Corruptor	Water Blast	Trick Arrow	0	19
Corruptor	Psychic Blast	Trick Arrow	0	4
Defender	Cold Domination	Archery	0	301
Defender	Cold Domination	Assault Rifle	0	143
Defender	Time Manipulation	Assault Rifle	0	64
Defender	Storm Summoning	Beam Rifle	0	29
Defender	Storm Summoning	Assault Rifle	0	24
Defender	Traps	Energy Blast	0	22
Defender	Sonic Resonance	Assault Rifle	0	18
Defender	Traps	Psychic Blast	0	12
Defender	Trick Arrow	Electrical Blast	0	5
Defender	Trick Arrow	Radiation Blast	0	3
Mastermind	Beast Mastery	Traps	0	335
Mastermind	Necromancy	Trick Arrow	0	65
Scrapper	Dual Blades	Ice Armor	0	93
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Radiation Armor	0	39
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Super Reflexes	0	30
Scrapper	Ice Melee	Invulnerability	0	20
Scrapper	Kinetic Attack	Dark Armor	0	46
Scrapper	War Mace	Ice Armor	0	21
Sentinel	Archery	Invulnerability	0	107
Sentinel	Archery	Electric Armor	0	71
Sentinel	Energy Blast	Ice Armor	0	26
Sentinel	Archery	Ice Armor	0	24
Sentinel	Assault Rifle	Ice Armor	0	24
Stalker	Broad Sword	Dark Armor	0	213
Stalker	Ninja Sword	Fiery Aura	0	65
Stalker	Claws	Fiery Aura	0	56
Stalker	Ice Melee	Ninjitsu	0	49
Stalker	Broad Sword	Fiery Aura	0	36
Stalker	Kinetic Attack	Ice Armor	0	30
Stalker	Claws	Ice Armor	0	29
Stalker	Dark Melee	Fiery Aura	0	27
Stalker	Martial Arts	Fiery Aura	0	21
Stalker	Martial Arts	Radiation Armor	0	21
Stalker	Kinetic Attack	Fiery Aura	0	14
Stalker	Fiery Melee	Electric Armor	0	12
Stalker	Martial Arts	Ice Armor	0	11
Stalker	Martial Arts	Dark Armor	0	68
Stalker	Dark Melee	Ice Armor	0	37
Tanker	Fiery Aura	Street Justice	0	79
Tanker	Electric Armor	Savage Melee	0	60
Tanker	Fiery Aura	Kinetic Attack	0	46
Tanker	Bio Organic Armor	Ice Melee	0	43
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Battle Axe	0	43
Tanker	Dark Armor	Kinetic Attack	0	40
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Spines	0	40
Tanker	Dark Armor	Martial Arts	0	37
Tanker	Dark Armor	Street Justice	0	54
Tanker	Super Reflexes	Ice Melee	0	19

I've had a level 50 Dark Armor/Martial Arts tank for quite some time now.

[Huron]

On 10/18/2019 at 2:26 PM, VV said:

I'm a little late to the party, but does this make anyone else want to make characters with the least-popular sets? Only me?

Nope, I've made 2 Unicorn 50's from the list because reasons....

[Shred Monkey]

Heres what interests me... the ones with low or no 50s, but a lot of attempts.  These are things people thought they would like, but quit after they got into it.

 

Like... what's wrong with a Beast/Traps MM that over 300 people started and didn't finish this combo?

 

[Troo]

On 10/19/2019 at 1:35 PM, Xandyr said:

I've had a level 50 Dark Armor/Martial Arts tank for quite some time now.

But but.. the list has to be..

[Felis Noctu]

On 10/21/2019 at 8:02 AM, Shred Monkey said:

Heres what interests me... the ones with low or no 50s, but a lot of attempts.  These are things people thought they would like, but quit after they got into it.

 

Like... what's wrong with a Beast/Traps MM that over 300 people started and didn't finish this combo?

Traps is already a little funky for MMs, but Beast Master has its own combo issues.

 

Higher end play with Traps generally involves setting up ambushes using poison trap, trip mine, pull enemies, then time bomb, for maximum effect. MM Traps doesn't have Time Bomb, so you're missing a third of the combo, and it's a big part. Instead, they have Detonator to blow up their own pets. Plus, with pet controls being what they are, to make it work in a way that's effective you also need to kit yourself out with a number of macros. Without those, control can be a bit awkward in any situation, let alone setting up an ambush. Besides, the Mastermind itself isn't generally meant to be doing the damage, and Traps is reliant on the character's power. A Mastermind's "crazy" damage comes from how reliable and rapid pet attacks are, producing a relatively steady high level of output.

 

Back on Detonator for a second: Beast Mastery primary play revolves around stacking as much Pack Mentality as possible. Blowing up one of your pets results in less gains for a time, probably causing you to drop stacks. A detonation on Beasts can potentially result in lost damage rather than a gain, not to mention Pack Mentality doesn't provide any boosts to Detonator. It's basically just additional Supremacy.

 

Then there's the general Beast playstyle. All of your pets are melee, and your primary support abilities for Traps are Force Field Generator and Triage Beacon, both of which require the pets to stay within range to gain the benefits. That means that you're going to have to jump into the middle of the battle and STAY THERE, risking getting squashed in order to protect your beasts, and in the midst of battle they may run off anyway. MMs aren't exactly the most durable by default, even with Bodyguard going, and traps doesn't have the defensive capabilities that other secondaries generally provide. If you want to save your own skin you need to bail out, thus reducing THEIR survival (and leaving your heal patch), and they aren't the most durable themselves. There's a reason why Fortify Pack exists. The problem there is if you have to pop Fortify, you just lost your damage advantage because it eats the Pack Mentality stacks.

 

 

TL;DR:

Beast/Traps just doesn't really mesh well. Its strengths are a little awkward on MMs who aren't 110% invested in micromanagement, supporting melee minions requires putting yourself in danger and still may not be entirely effective, and playing safely means potentially dramatically reducing your damage output. Also power creep, because there are several secondaries now that can provide much better support while boosting the effectiveness of your pets and the rest of the team. Traps on MMs just doesn't even have the same effectiveness that it would on Defenders.

 

TL;TL;DR:

Beast/Traps has considerable conflict of interest problems.

 

----------

 

Being an MM enthusiast, what I would really love to see is a variation of Devices on MMs, replacing or even just in addition to Traps. Swap out Taser for Triage Beacon, and probably Time Bomb for FFG. Would need to shuffle the levels of the skills a bit. Targeting Drone could have reduced effect but be a team-wide buff, and Field Operative would be great for lowering the chance of aggro while you're having to sit in the middle of things keeping everyone alive or toe-bombing. Gun Drone also fits the MM theme very well. I feel like that kind of setup is much more workable for MMs in general. It wouldn't solve the conflict of interest with Beasts, but it would feel a little better for the AT as a whole.

EDIT 2020-02-17:
Updated some wording and details for clarity, and tweaking ideas regarding the MM Devices adaptation.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Felis Noctu

[MetaVileTerror]

Maining a Mercs/Traps Mastermind, I'll say that personally leaping in to the middle of a large mob and dropping Poison Trap with my Henchpets on Bodyguard and the Force Field Generator on my tail . . . I am damned tanky.  There's this lovely little split second when you jump in to a group of enemies where they just stand around going "Double-ewe tea eff, mate?"  Just enough time to get the Poison Trap out, then follow up with the Acid Mortar in point-blank range.  Once the Poison's initial Hold wears off, the Acid Mortar and Mercs have grabbed all the aggro, and I can drop the Triage if they need that little extra love to stay alive.  

I've not tried Beasts yet, but if they're melee anyway, I don't see it really negatively impacting my playstyle with Traps any.  I'd give it a try, but I don't like dogs.  (still really irked about Dark Control having a frickin' giant dog as the Tier 9 pet . . . )

[Ael]

I have a bots/traps MM all kitted out. It can solo +3 AV's. It's insane. My guess is, those 300 people didn't like how it behaved during the leveling process. It can be slow going, especially if you haven't slotted many set IO's. If they don't like it while leveling, chances are they won't even bother getting it to 50 much less kitting it out or doing anything with incarnates. Once you have, though, /traps on a MM can destroy just about anything. I'm tempted to pair it with beasts now, just to give that combo a try.

[Papaschtroumpf]

Yeah bots/trap is a great combo at 50

[AustinSmith]

I have an Incarnate Super Reflexes/Battle Axe tanker on Everlasting, but don’t see the pairing in the list, curious if I am a unicorn

 

EDIT: also, no comparisons for Crab v Bane and Fortunata v Night Widow for the VEATs?

Edited November 7, 2019 by AustinSmith

[Coyotedancer]

The Red Traveller (my KM/FA Stalker) just hit 40...

Almost there! ALLLLLmost there. XD

[Oubliette_Red]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shred Monkey said:

Heres what interests me... the ones with low or no 50s, but a lot of attempts.  These are things people thought they would like, but quit after they got into it.

 

Like... what's wrong with a Beast/Traps MM that over 300 people started and didn't finish this combo?

 

Another reason could be that like many of us, they suffer from alt-itis.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Oubliette_Red

[MetaVileTerror]

No one /suffers/ from Altoholism.  Just make another alt.  You know you wannnnnna.

[Coyotedancer]

14 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

No one /suffers/ from Altoholism.  Just make another alt.  You know you wannnnnna.

Nope!

NopeNopeNopeNope.

 

XD

[Coyotedancer]

 

 

So. 

This is The Red Traveller… my "unicorn" Kinetic Melee/Fire Aura Stalker.

Hitting 50.

 

There are no longer NO CHARACTERS AT 50 with that powersets/AT combination.

There's at least one. ^_^

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Coyotedancer

[Display Name]

Um...  It's flavour of the month, right?  Any updates?

 

Can you add "toons per account?"

[Midnight Blue Mage]

I'm guessing that the unicorn population has dwindled since Cipher's awesome data was collected, but in any case there is now at least one level 50 Time Manipulation/Assault Rifle Defender (and getting him there was a blast; he's super fun! 😄)

 

 

 

 

 

[Rikis]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:33 PM, Troo said:

@Purrfekshawn @Grandfeatherex

 

As I read it I think this was the zero 50 list as of 9/3 (ish). Maybe this has the missing sentinels? I realize you may be looking for builds not attempted at all..

 

Archetype	Primary	Secondary	Level 50s	Total Attempts
Mastermind	Necromancy	Trick Arrow	0	65

My first level 50 Mastermind on Live was a Necromancer/Trick Arrow. After decking her out with IOs and finishing her incarnate abilities, I told myself "never again!"

 

She was reborn here as Necro/Time, fully IO'd out and with some Incarnates.